Study finds the awareness of death plays a role in anti-atheist prejudice - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Mingebox;47626826]I dunno, nonexistence sounds rather comforting to me.[/QUOTE] I dunno but I for one would rather continue existing.

[QUOTE=Mingebox;47626826]I dunno, nonexistence sounds rather comforting to me. I'm afraid of leaving things behind or the actual pain of death, but not death itself.[/QUOTE] dying seems kind of a bummer to me because then i can't play any more video games

[QUOTE=Mingebox;47626826]I dunno, nonexistence sounds rather comforting to me. I'm afraid of leaving things behind or the actual pain of death, but not death itself.[/QUOTE] Easy for you to say :v:. I'd rather be comfortable in some form of afterlife or at least reincarnation, than just floating in a void for eternity. That's very worse than the concepts of Hell itself. I'll take anything Satan could throw at me in Hell over simply nothing at all.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;47626862]Easy for you to say :v:. I'd rather be comfortable in some form of afterlife or at least reincarnation, than just floating in a void for eternity. That's very worse than the concepts of Hell itself. I'll take anything Satan could throw at me in Hell over simply nothing at all.[/QUOTE] You wouldn't be floating in a void though. you just don't exist. There is no void. You're just not here, there, or anywhere. You're gone. Death from an atheistic, or godless perspective, is just a normal, natural part of life and results in nothing. You die, and you're gone. You're not floating in a void for eternity because you don't have a concept of anything, you're dead. The afterlife, as it were, is something that to me, and maybe to me alone, devalues everything anyone strives for in the real world. If you were to live forever and ever, in an eternal afterlife, nothing you did in life had any meaning as now, you have an infinite amount of time compared to your very finite amount of real life and the achievements you managed in your life are now tiny, you can accomplish and do anything, you have eternity for that. Why bother with the first stage, our lives, if you can just live forever?

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;47626862]Easy for you to say :v:. I'd rather be comfortable in some form of afterlife or at least reincarnation, than just floating in a void for eternity. That's very worse than the concepts of Hell itself. I'll take anything Satan could throw at me in Hell over simply nothing at all.[/QUOTE] I mean, I'd prefer eternal paradise, but if I died old having lived a fulfilling life, I think I could go unfraid. Not sure why you're afraid of "floating in a void" (which is something, not nothing), considering you already did it the eternity before you were born.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;47626862]Easy for you to say :v:. I'd rather be comfortable in some form of afterlife or at least reincarnation, than just floating in a void for eternity. That's very worse than the concepts of Hell itself. I'll take anything Satan could throw at me in Hell over simply nothing at all.[/QUOTE] Yyou wouldn't be floating in a void, you just wouldn't be, period.

[QUOTE=Dejarie;47626737]For those of us who aren't that strong, are there any recommendation? I'm fucking terrified of this shit and I can't live normally any more. Sounds weird to say it here but I just can't do anything else[/QUOTE] I don't think you need any religious or supernatural crutch to make the prospect of death less bleak. we're all essentially pieces that make up this vast world we live in, and when we die I don't think we cease to be part of it, I think our role in it just changes. how it changes and what it changes to is impossible to discern, but the notion that our entire existence just disappears is always something I've found to be unscientific. nothing disappears. a burning tree turns to ash, a puddle under the beating sun evaporates and turns to mist... what happens to our minds and our thoughts after our bodies can no longer carry them is possibly the most intriguing mystery in the known world. it seems to me that everything in nature comes full circle eventually.

Wow, THanks. THis helps uncover the death-drive which lacan and hegel spoke of, that all humans secretely know that what they are dooing will all end at an unforeseen point in the future, and that the true horror is not death, but immortality. Could we sustain ourselves ideologically knowing that this would go on forever? No. Clearly not, as Lacan has educated.

[QUOTE=Bruhmis;47627140]I don't think you need any religious or supernatural crutch to make the prospect of death less bleak. we're all essentially pieces that make up this vast world we live in, and when we die I don't think we cease to be part of it, I think our role in it just changes. how it changes and what it changes to is impossible to discern, but the notion that our entire existence just disappears is always something I've found to be unscientific. nothing disappears. a burning tree turns to ash, a puddle under the beating sun evaporates and turns to mist... what happens to our minds and our thoughts after our bodies can no longer carry them is possibly the most intriguing mystery in the known world. it seems to me that everything in nature comes full circle eventually.[/QUOTE] Nature trends towards disorder. Things have a way of returning to a null state. I don't see how our conciousness, the result of electrical impulses and chemical shifts and perhaps even some quantum phenomena(unlikely from what I understand but who knows) is going to survive that. It is our brains. It is not seperate from our brains as best anyone can tell. We are our minds, and our minds are tied to our brains in every imaginable way. They are one and the same. Again, I just don't see how there is an afterlife. My favourite thought is simply that whatever you are or ever were in life, you will eventually be involved at an atomic level in something else. The pieces of your body, the trillions of atoms that cycle through your body making up who you are go on forever to influence everything that will ever be. You are eternal through this definition. But, at a conscious level, we're limited to this life time I believe.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;47626862]Easy for you to say :v:. I'd rather be comfortable in some form of afterlife or at least reincarnation, than just floating in a void for eternity. That's very worse than the concepts of Hell itself. I'll take anything Satan could throw at me in Hell over simply nothing at all.[/QUOTE] I'd rather have a bank account with a billion dollars in it than have the piddling sum I have now. Just because that would please me doesn't make it true.

I cant really wrap my mind around the concept of eternal paradise, every time I do, this runs through my mind: Imagine waking up in paradise, and since its paradise you can only feel pleasure and you can never get bored. You can never be sad, angry, just happy all the time. So...lets imagine that every 'day' that passes in paradise your memory is wiped from the previous day, that way every pleasurable experience could never ever get boring. Or if you want you can just delete boredom from existence and keep your memories. Hell lets make it even simpler, lets just scrap everything that makes you 'you', and just make it so you feel pure pleasure for eternity. There is no need for thinking, so need for senses, there's not even any need for self awareness, no need for anything that makes you distinguishable from anything else. All of that just adds inconvenience, and since were in paradise, it must be free of all inconveniences, it is perfect. Well in this state, its seems indistinguishable from just not existing in the first place. So if we want it even simpler... "poof"

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47626925]You wouldn't be floating in a void though. you just don't exist. There is no void. You're just not here, there, or anywhere. You're gone. Death from an atheistic, or godless perspective, is just a normal, natural part of life and results in nothing. You die, and you're gone. You're not floating in a void for eternity because you don't have a concept of anything, you're dead.[/QUOTE]fuck, death scares me

[QUOTE=Dejarie;47626737]For those of us who aren't that strong, are there any recommendation? I'm fucking terrified of this shit and I can't live normally any more. Sounds weird to say it here but I just can't do anything else[/QUOTE] You are terrified of the idea that you will some day cease to exist? I went through a similar ordeal, feel free to add me on steam if you'd like to talk about it.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47627169]at a conscious level, we're limited to this life time I believe.[/QUOTE] the problem I've always had with this view point is that you basically have to dismiss science completely to accept it. essentially you have to believe our minds are just supernatural and somehow exempt from the laws of nature, and thus able to abruptly cease to exist. I don't think reincarnation or "afterlife" concepts are plausible answers to this dilemma but I can't imagine that conciousness is capable of disappearing any more than anything else in nature is. I don't claim to know at what capacity and in what form it would continue to exist, though.

[QUOTE=Flubbman;47627225]fuck, death scares me[/QUOTE] There's little to be scared of from a personal perspective. Once you're gone that's it, nothing. You wont be aware that you've passed away, you wont be capable of caring, it's the most "nothing" that "nothing" can be. From a social perspective it does suck shit though.

[QUOTE=Flubbman;47627225]fuck, death scares me[/QUOTE] That's okay. That's only human. Our fear of death is quite literally hard wired into our minds, bodies, everything. We generally seek to avoid death at all costs, and as a result, the concept is genuinely terrifying. All that being scared of death says about you as a person, is that you're normal and there's nothing wrong with that. I think confronting death head on is a pretty good way to come to terms with it and as I was nearly killed in a car crash at a young age that happened pretty early for me. Don't let the fear of death stop you from doing anything. [editline]29th April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Bruhmis;47627248]the problem I've always had with this view point is that you basically have to dismiss science completely to accept it. essentially you have to believe our minds are just supernatural and somehow exempt from the laws of nature, and thus able to abruptly cease to exist. I don't think reincarnation or "afterlife" concepts are plausible answers to this dilemma but I can't imagine that conciousness is capable of disappearing any more than anything else in nature is. I don't claim to know at what capacity and in what form it would continue to exist, though.[/QUOTE] I think you're looking at it entirely inverse. To believe that we continue on after death is unscientific and unsubstantiated. Watching the electircal impulses in a person go out as they die, the chemical functions that gave their thoughts substance have ceased, they're dead and I don't see how you can call it "Scientific" to believe that those thoughts go on else where. Thoughts don't have mass, or weight, they are energy impulses traveling along physical substances. They're reliant on each other to give us our sentience but they are entirely physical. Energy can be depleted. The expenditure of energy turns itself into other forms of energy, it isn't gone, but it's in a different form that carries different meaning. In the case of our thoughts, once they stop being formed by our neurons in the form of energy pulses, they transmit that energy into other forms that dissipate.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;47627256]There's little to be scared of from a personal perspective. Once you're gone that's it, nothing. You wont be aware that you've passed away, you wont be capable of caring, it's the most "nothing" that "nothing" can be. From a social perspective it does suck shit though.[/QUOTE]It's the concept itself that scares me; if you die a sudden death, you will never have a chance to be aware of the fact that you, say, never got to say goodbye, left a lot of things behind etc. I want to believe there's a "proper" afterlife, but I can't. I'd love to be dead if that was the case, but literally disappearing from all planes of existence fucking scares me, plain and simple.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47627257] Thoughts don't have mass, or weight, they are energy impulses traveling along physical substances. They're reliant on each other to give us our sentience but they are entirely physical. Energy can be depleted. The expenditure of energy turns itself into other forms of energy, it isn't gone, but it's in a different form that carries different meaning. In the case of our thoughts, once they stop being formed by our neurons in the form of energy pulses, they transmit that energy into other forms that dissipate.[/QUOTE] like I said before I don't claim to know at what capacity and in which form they would continue to exist, and I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that their existence after our death wouldn't necessarily be limited to concepts that we currently understand. science tells us that everything in nature remains in some form, forever. I don't imagine that what remains of us will manifest itself in the form of "ghost" like entities or anything of the sort, but like I said in my first post, no part of us will cease to be part of the world we live in.

[QUOTE=Bruhmis;47627328]like I said before I don't claim to know at what capacity and in which form they would continue to exist, and I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that their existence after our death wouldn't necessarily be limited to concepts that we currently understand. science tells us that everything in nature remains in some form, forever. I don't imagine that what remains of us will manifest itself in the form of "ghost" like entities or anything of the sort, but like I said in my first post, no part of us will cease to be part of the world we live in.[/QUOTE] I honestly don't know where you get the idea that something stays in some form forever. Not really. All things are built out of atoms, the basic blocks of everything, and those blocks form our thoughts, and when we die, those thoughts are not there anymore, their gone, they were energy travelling along atomic lines creating us. I don't see how it's scientific to suggest there is an afterlife unless you can quantify and qualify that in great detail and how that process happens. The physics, chemistry, and biology of life, and our brains show us irrevocable proof that death is the end for our conscious minds.

Of course our bodies won't simply disappear, but the body's carefully constructed composition that defines who we are would fall apart. After all, our feelings, hopes and dreams are nothing but chemical reactions and electrical impulses in our brains; death is simply the inability of those reactions to take place. ninja'd in a philosophical discussion, gg

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47627348]I don't see how it's scientific to suggest there is an afterlife[/QUOTE] that's not really relevant since I haven't suggested that

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47626925] The afterlife, as it were, is something that to me, and maybe to me alone, devalues everything anyone strives for in the real world. If you were to live forever and ever, in an eternal afterlife, nothing you did in life had any meaning as now, you have an infinite amount of time compared to your very finite amount of real life and the achievements you managed in your life are now tiny, you can accomplish and do anything, you have eternity for that. Why bother with the first stage, our lives, if you can just live forever?[/QUOTE] having an afterlife may devalue your accomplishments over time but not having one means your accomplishments had no value in the first place

[QUOTE=Bruhmis;47627436]that's not really relevant since I haven't suggested that[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Bruhmis;47627248]the problem I've always had with this view point is that you basically have to[B] dismiss science completely to accept it[/B]. essentially you have to believe our minds are just supernatural and somehow exempt from the laws of nature, and thus able to abruptly cease to exist. I don't think reincarnation or "afterlife" concepts are plausible answers to this dilemma but I can't imagine that conciousness is capable of disappearing any more than anything else in nature is. I don't claim to know at what capacity and in what form it would continue to exist, though.[/QUOTE] You did though, and you claimed even it was unscientific to doubt the afterlife. [editline]29th April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Jund;47627456]having an afterlife may devalue your accomplishments over time but not having one means your accomplishments had no value in the first place[/QUOTE] How so? Because you're dead and can't enjoy them? No. You die. The world goes on. Whatever you did there is ALL that matters because it will actually affect people. Leave behind a son? You have added to the gene pool. Caused a change in the environment? You've caused a ripple effect across time. Your efforts may go nameless, your efforts affect the world for ever after. Whatever the after life has to offer, it doesn't have a world you can actually affect and change. I think at the heart of it, that's a massive misunderstanding of what "value" is.

[QUOTE=Jund;47627456]having an afterlife may devalue your accomplishments over time but not having one means your accomplishments had no value in the first place[/QUOTE] Just because you die afterwards doesn't mean you aren't having fun when you're having fun. People will hopefully remember me and what I did in life, so to them my accomplishments may hold value.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47627459]You did though, and you claimed even it was unscientific to doubt the afterlife.[/QUOTE] what I actually did was specifically state that an afterlife concept isn't plausible.

[QUOTE=Bruhmis;47627508]what I actually did was specifically state that an afterlife concept isn't plausible.[/QUOTE] My bad then, I did not get that at all from what was said there.

[QUOTE=Bruhmis;47627328]like I said before I don't claim to know at what capacity and in which form they would continue to exist, and I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that their existence after our death wouldn't necessarily be limited to concepts that we currently understand. science tells us that everything in nature remains in some form, forever. I don't imagine that what remains of us will manifest itself in the form of "ghost" like entities or anything of the sort, but like I said in my first post, no part of us will cease to be part of the world we live in.[/QUOTE] No part of [i]what was formerly us[/I] will cease to be part of the world. We only exist as a some of those parts, and when those parts fail to work together, we are nothing.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47627459] How so? Because you're dead and can't enjoy them? No. You die. The world goes on. Whatever you did there is ALL that matters because it will actually affect people. Leave behind a son? You have added to the gene pool. Caused a change in the environment? You've caused a ripple effect across time. Your efforts may go nameless, your efforts affect the world for ever after. Whatever the after life has to offer, it doesn't have a world you can actually affect and change.[/QUOTE] it's your mind that allocates value to things like objects and ideals yeah things like offspring and the environment matter to you now, but 300 years after you are dead nothing will matter at all because you don't exist this isn't even from a egocentric viewpoint, like "but how does it affect ME". literally nothing will matter because you won't have a conscious to care about things [editline]29th April 2015[/editline] "leaving a legacy" makes the rejection of an afterlife seem less scary but in the end it's just as much a reassurance tool as the concept of an afterlife is

The knowledge that there is nothing after this for me is one of the biggest motivators in my life to do more and basically to fight against death at any turn. I enjoy being alive no matter how bad it may get, because I know I don't ever get a second chance after this life. So I do what I can to fight death as best as possible in the hope of one day finding a way to overcome it. It's half my reason for going to school for Biomedical Engineering, technology as a way to beat death. Death is absolutely scary, it is final and eternal it takes everything away from you. Death keeps me constantly aware of time, and is why I put such a high value on my time, its always running out. So I absolutely fight back as much as possible and will continue to do so until I win, I have no intention of dying. Do not go gentle into that good night.

So, in a nutshell they feel threatened because Atheism is that one possibility there isn't some afterlife, or something after death? [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47626925]You wouldn't be floating in a void though. you just don't exist. There is no void. You're just not here, there, or anywhere. You're gone. [/QUOTE] Just to preface the next thing I'm going to say, I don't identity entirely as atheist, I'm open to divine claims and deities if you can prove without any doubt they exist, yet, so far, nothing compelling has ever shown up. But, the way you describe it The funny thing about being non-religious myself is that death is something I haven't quite coped with yet. It was one of the most terrifying realizations to hit me years ago, and even though I would be completely devoid of feeling, the very concept of it being an inevitable part of my life at some point is enough to keep me up at night. It made me ponder if this level of fear, and dread I've had knowing I won't exist, I won't remember, or have any sense of what I did for my entire life is what sparked the origins of a so-called afterlife and deities. Humans always seem to want answers, and death seems to be one of those things that just aren't comfortable to comprehend, especially if put bluntly.