[QUOTE=Glaber;27207868]I don't think she used those charity funds. But [b]I'm currently digging back into the matter[/b] so I'll find out.[/QUOTE]
if your only sources are right-wing blogs/radio hosts, i'm driving to michigan and smashing your keyboard
Those fascist, communist, terrorist, french-loving, Satan-worshipping liberals!
[QUOTE=Glaber;27207342]From where I sit, you're the misleading one. What with talk about how the rich are granted their money.
You argue that the Rich don't need/notice/care about the money if they aren't like corrupt businessmen who simply buy the senate/congress. But Rich, doesn't just cover the Bill Gates or Bernie Madoffs of the world as it seems you believe. The term "Rich" also covers the Small business owner who has to pay his/Her employees, pay for operation costs, Supplies, and even the Lease of where their store/stores are.
I keep repeating this because like how you try to pound a point into me, I'm trying to pound this one into you. Of course from my side it looks like [B]you're just repeating what left wing bloggers and politicians say[/B] and when I do have my own thoughts you think that's me still echoing the Right. Well let me tell you, my thought process, when it comes to politics, [I]is on the Right[/I].
You want to know why I ignore the arguments I can't touch? It's because I don't have the answers to everything, and I'm sure you don't either.
Oh, and if Palin really is as Dumb as you think, why hasn't she gone down yet?[/QUOTE]
The funny thing is Glaber, I've never listened to a news outlet. Not a single one. I take as much news as I can from all sources, I try and remove all bias possible. Fuck off with that.
Then change the meaning of the term rich, why is that so fucking hard?
Uh, are you fucking serious? What good ideas does she have? What does she add to politics? She's barely even qualified to run a household, let alone a country. If you think Obama can't do the job, then you must believe Sarah Palin can't even make soup properly on terms of sheer intellect. You know why she hasn't gone down yet? She appeals to people who are ignorant of the reality of the situations, she's incredibly bigoted and she would be more of a puppet president than Bush was for fucks sakes. How the fuck can you defend someone who is really not even fully aware of geography, or anything else in the world...
Where did I EVER imply the rich are granted their money? Where Glaber, where? Put more words in my mouth. And like I said earlier, simply change what the term rich applies to to avoid damaging them, do you seriously not realize these terms can change or something? Change it to avoid all the small business owners, I have no problem with this, and it would probably be better than that.
That whole bit you did about how "they need that money to pay for their employees wages" is fucking ridiculous and so full of fallacies it hurts. You just turn the argument towards a group I'm not trying to over tax or anything like that, please understand glaber, those are not the people I'm talking about.
Glaber, here's my biggest problem with you. Your view point has been the same basically since you joined FP, you're stagnant in your view points as best I can tell. That's the biggest problem. Taking a side and just sticking to that regardless.
Palin/Beck 2012
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27189994]Yay, new glaber thread.
No glaber, it doesn't. Social programs don't create deficits nearly as much as a corrupted "free market" does. You know what makes debts glaber? Tax cuts. Failing drug wars. Failing REAL wars.
Fuck off already. You [b]DON'T SAY ANYTHING NEW. EVER.[/b] You don't even make up the shit you say, you regurgitate it from right wing radio bloggers who have their own agendas and have their own heads up their asses.
No, I'm not saying liberal media is better, it isn't really.[/QUOTE]
And how about this glaber? Do you just ignore that I said clearly liberal media is no better? How can you ignore that a failing drug war and failing real wars, a broken capitalist system, or anything like that and just jump on the most unimportant part of my argument about "taxation".
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27190090]Which was originally Bush's idea(sort of), and [b]actually[/b] helped the economy out. Yeah, bad spending there.
Well, more like Bush did the same thing and Republicans praised it, Obama does it and you fuckers climb out of the walls to scream bloody fucking murder. I see no reason you should be listened to.(not you in particular, just people with these view points.)[/QUOTE]
How did the stimulus help the economy? It was a pay out to unions, and gave money to banks, which then did exactly what you said the rich would do, they hid it away.
[editline]4th January 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Prismatex;27206595]how do they treat legal immigrants any better than people born in america[/QUOTE]
Free health care
Free education
Tax free income (unless they immigrants stole someone's social security number)
[QUOTE=Ridge;27208199]How did the stimulus help the economy? It was a pay out to unions, and gave money to banks, which then did exactly what you said the rich would do, they hid it away.[/QUOTE]
Hey, your country isn't totally broken yet is it? Oh, yeah, that's right, it isn't. Not at all what your right wing economists would say would happen from it, is it?
Here's what it did, it flooded money in the economy. Yeah, far too many billions were squandered into ceo's bonuses and shit, and that was a flaw with the legislation, not the idea. However, a healthy chunk of the money made it to the important part of the economy and helped.
Oh, and based on that they DID squander it, how the [b]FUCK[/b] can you defend trickle down economics?
[editline]4th January 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ridge;27208199]
[editline]4th January 2011[/editline]
Free health care
Free education
Tax free income (unless they immigrants stole someone's social security number)[/QUOTE]
[citation needed]
[QUOTE=Ridge;27208199] Free health care
Free education
Tax free income (unless they immigrants stole someone's social security number)[/QUOTE] really i gotta get in on this shit oh wait, no i still have to buy health care, i pay out the arse for education, and i certainly do not have a tax free income so uh stop
[QUOTE=thisispain;27208282]really i gotta get in on this shit oh wait, no i still have to buy health care, i pay out the arse for education, and i certainly do not have a tax free income so uh stop[/QUOTE]
And Sarah Palin thinks exactly the same shit I bet so why do we have people who want to vote for her...
humanabyss, sarah palin doesn't believe in evolution
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27208225]Hey, your country isn't totally broken yet is it? Oh, yeah, that's right, it isn't. Not at all what your right wing economists would say would happen from it, is it?
Here's what it did, it flooded money in the economy. Yeah, far too many billions were squandered into ceo's bonuses and shit, and that was a flaw with the legislation, not the idea. However, a healthy chunk of the money made it to the important part of the economy and helped.
Oh, and based on that they DID squander it, how the [b]FUCK[/b] can you defend trickle down economics?[/quote]
You always say it is the CEOs stealing money. Ever thought it was the accountants? The CEOs rarely actually touch money in the business. Learn about how to operate a business for telling others who do how to.
[quote][editline]4th January 2011[/editline]
[citation needed][/QUOTE]
Jesus fucking christ, you are just trying to be a pain in the ass. It is common knowledge that illegal immigrants either:
A) Steal someone's social security number and use it to get a job; or
B) Work under the table, don't pay taxes, and abuse public education and emergency rooms to become educated and treated for any illness.
[editline]4th January 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=thisispain;27208282]really i gotta get in on this shit oh wait, no i still have to buy health care, i pay out the arse for education, and i certainly do not have a tax free income so uh stop[/QUOTE]
You an illegal immigrant in the US? So uh shut up
[QUOTE=Ridge;27208361]You always say it is the CEOs stealing money. Ever thought it was the accountants? The CEOs rarely actually touch money in the business. Learn about how to operate a business for telling others who do how to.
Jesus fucking christ, you are just trying to be a pain in the ass. It is common knowledge that illegal immigrants either:
A) Steal someone's social security number and use it to get a job; or
B) Work under the table, don't pay taxes, and abuse public education and emergency rooms to become educated and treated for any illness.
[editline]4th January 2011[/editline]
You an illegal immigrant in the US? So uh shut up[/QUOTE]
The quote says legal, so you read wrong. Your bad, and you look stupid now, thanks.
Oh, you. You republicans are amazing at being ridiculous. On one hand, I get glaber telling me these CEO's work hard and have fingers all over their business and do so much work, then I have you telling me that isn't the case at all. Yeah, I GET that accounts can do that. I also get that accountants can be paid to do that for the CEO's at a moments notice. So uh, what was your fucking point?
[QUOTE=Ridge;27208361] You an illegal immigrant in the US? So uh shut up[/QUOTE]
god you are SOOOO annoying he said LEGAL immigrants
[QUOTE=Ridge;27208361] Jesus fucking christ, you are just trying to be a pain in the ass. It is common knowledge that illegal immigrants either:
A) Steal someone's social security number and use it to get a job; or
B) Work under the table, don't pay taxes, and abuse public education and emergency rooms to become educated and treated for any illness.
[/QUOTE]
[nitation ceeded]
I don't want to tax rich people to the point where they have just as much money as the rest of us, clearly they did something right or inherited it and deserve a respectable amount of their wealth, but having $50M in the bank not being spent is helping no one.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;27208478]I don't want to tax rich people to the point where they have just as much money as the rest of us, clearly they did something right or inherited it and deserve a respectable amount of their wealth, but having $50M in the bank not being spent is helping no one.[/QUOTE]
I've never heard anyone say they should be taxed that much. That's like what Glaber thinks we all want or something...
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27208493]I've never heard anyone say they should be taxed that much. That's like what Glaber thinks we all want or something...[/QUOTE]
Just had to say it or someone out there would probably think I don't want the rich taxed at all.
[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;27190959]This was really one of my concerns about the whole "extra taxes for the rich because they're rich" thing. Contrary to popular belief, the rich aren't all little men in top hats sitting on huge piles of gold which they got out of nowhere with nothing to do but spend it. Rather, many people who have enough cash to be classified as "rich" have to work damn hard for it, and must constantly work to maintain the position. Nor, as Glaber put it, is this money all disposable income for the man himself - a lot of it may be invested in business, as how many people become "rich", and this business may rely on having that money available. When you throw on extra taxes to get that wealth BECAUSE of that wealth, everything collapses, and that's not a viable outcome. I'm all for fairness, and a proportional tax system which ultimately fits everyone, but I'm not for extra-wealth taxes based on simple logic and a righteous moral outrage.[/QUOTE]
You need to stop posting really dumb fallacies like you're right.
No one thinks that they're like that at all, no one has said that and no one has even used hyperbole to an extent like that at all. Righteous moral outrage? At what? Why should they have lower taxes? Why does that help them? Us? The society? It doesn't help anyone BUT them. Simple logic? What logic is that? "It's not fair"? it's not fair that some kids are dying because they don't have any money to eat, hell, maybe even taxing the rich a little extra could help.
No one is trying to say tax them til their poor, and just the same token to you as glaber, [b]CHANGE WHAT THE BRACKETS REFER TO THEN!?[/b]
CEO's get tens of millions in bonuses, from our tax money.
We are practically paying CEOs of corporations too big to fail, that are slowly and surely altering our society to become a complete corporate dominated government.
There is a time when the corporations get too much power, and that time is coming soon. What ever happened to capitalism or laisse faire[sic] economics, if a company dies, it is their fault. The government shouldn't do anything about it.
[sp]To be honest I don't know what Laisse Faire[sic] economics are, but I know that it means "let it be" so I'll go off that[/sp]
You know what? I wish I could change what Rich means.
And apparently I was wrong about you thinking the rich are granted their money. Sorry. However, Just raising taxes on the rich won't solve the government's Spending problem. Right now the Government is Like a Drunken Sailor with a huge credit limit on their Credit card and unfortunately, they're nearly maxed out!
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27208164]Glaber, here's my biggest problem with you. Your view point has been the same basically since you joined FP, you're stagnant in your view points as best I can tell. That's the biggest problem. Taking a side and just sticking to that regardless.[/QUOTE]
What can I say, I'm 24 and I'm locking in to my views.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27208196]And how about this glaber? Do you just ignore that I said clearly liberal media is no better? How can you ignore that a failing drug war and failing real wars, a broken capitalist system, or anything like that and just jump on the most unimportant part of my argument about "taxation".[/QUOTE]
How can I ignore those wars? How about the fact that they either don't get covered, or barely any coverage on the stations I listen to?
Last I knew part of the Failing drug war was fueled by illegal Immigrants.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27208493]I've never heard anyone say they should be taxed that much. That's like what Glaber thinks we all want or something...[/QUOTE]
Well with how you talk about taxing them, how do you expect us to think? You never say how much and it falls in line with how the Left wing thinks. And right now We don't need to be fueling the Government's destructive spending if this Debt is any indication.
[QUOTE=Uberman77883;27208876]What ever happened to capitalism or laisse faire[sic] economics[/QUOTE]
the us abandoned that circa 1910
[QUOTE=Glaber;27208895]You know what? I wish I could change what Rich means.
And apparently I was wrong about you thinking the rich are granted their money. Sorry. However, Just raising taxes on the rich won't solve the government's Spending problem. Right now the Government is Like a Drunken Sailor with a huge credit limit on their Credit card and unfortunately, they're nearly maxed out!
What can I say, I'm 24 and I'm locking in to my views.
How can I ignore those wars? How about the fact that they either don't get covered, or barely any coverage on the stations I listen to?
Last I knew part of the Failing drug war was fueled by illegal Immigrants.
Well with how you talk about taxing them, how do you expect us to think? You never say how much and it falls in line with how the Left wing thinks. And right now We don't need to be fueling the Government's destructive spending if this Debt is any indication.[/QUOTE]
Destructive spending? The fuck does that mean? You know WHY spending isn't a bad thing Glaber? Because spending brings jobs. Not spending brings stagnation. No, this isn't my imagination, literally, if the government didn't drop the money they do into the economy, it would be stagnant. AKA, Dead.
I think they should be taxed along the lines of 20% or more, but no where near 30% or above because that's just... the arbitrary line i decide to draw. And that's all taxes are anyways.
They probably don't get coverage because it's impossible to spin "We just spent 500 billion to stop people smoking pot, and the amount of people smoking it is just climbing on a daily basis". The amount of money poured into a war on the citizens of the country you love is disgusting.
Glaber, for your own good, and I say this with no malice or ill-will, only the best intentions, [b]DON'T DO THAT.[/b] Not even because I disagree with you, it's just idiotic to lock yourself into a view point. It's childish, literally. It's just something we have to consciously fight.
I disagree about how much the government should spend, and it's not a discussion worth having between us, but it's not sure fire on either side of that line.
I do too, maybe through the power of democracy, you can change it. Because it shouldn't be what it is.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;27208478]I don't want to tax rich people to the point where they have just as much money as the rest of us, clearly they did something right or inherited it and deserve a respectable amount of their wealth, but having $50M in the bank not being spent is helping no one.[/QUOTE]
Money doesn't just sit in the bank. The bank puts it in the stock market. That is how and why interest is paid.
[QUOTE=Glaber;27208895]How can I ignore those wars? How about the fact that they either don't get covered, or barely any coverage on the stations I listen to?[/QUOTE]
you just admitted that your right wing airbags are keeping you uninformed and you don't care
get fucked
it's not that i disagree with you, it's that you don't have any desire to become informed about the world
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27208406]The quote says legal, so you read wrong. Your bad, and you look stupid now, thanks.
Oh, you. You republicans are amazing at being ridiculous. On one hand, I get glaber telling me these CEO's work hard and have fingers all over their business and do so much work, then I have you telling me that isn't the case at all. Yeah, I GET that accounts can do that. I also get that accountants can be paid to do that for the CEO's at a moments notice. So uh, what was your fucking point?[/QUOTE]
Fuck you and fuck the Republicans. It amuses me to no end that liberals think the republican party is too far right and people that are actual fiscal conservatives think the republican party is too centrist. I'm a libertarian, I think government serves no purpose other than to be a moderator between the states and to raise an army to defend them. I don't think the government has the right or should be expected to meddle with private industry, or to violate the basic rule of free market and keep unwanted businesses afloat at the expense of the people that don't want their products or services. This goes for GM and AmTrak, too.
[editline]4th January 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Glaber;27208895]How can I ignore those wars? How about the fact that they either don't get covered, or barely any coverage on the stations I listen to?[/QUOTE]
So true. When Bush was in office, every day there were a dozen stories about how bad the wars are and all the protests against them. Yet, 01/20/2009, the media seems to no longer care. Nothing has changed. Protests go on. Yet the media chooses not to broadcast them.
[QUOTE=Ridge;27209167]Fuck you and fuck the Republicans. It amuses me to no end that liberals think the republican party is too far right and people that are actual fiscal conservatives think the republican party is too centrist. I'm a libertarian, I think government serves no purpose other than to be a moderator between the states and to raise an army to defend them. I don't think the government has the right or should be expected to meddle with private industry, or to violate the basic rule of free market and keep unwanted businesses afloat at the expense of the people that don't want their products or services. This goes for GM and AmTrak, too.[/QUOTE]
I'm not a liberal, so fuck you too.
Cool, that's not the discussion, nor was that even fucking relevant to what you quoted from me.
And cool, free market works, I know, i've looked in the history books and seen how well that's gone over, it worked great for 5% of the population.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27208994]Destructive spending? The fuck does that mean? You know WHY spending isn't a bad thing Glaber? Because spending brings jobs. Not spending brings stagnation. No, this isn't my imagination, literally, if the government didn't drop the money they do into the economy, it would be stagnant. AKA, Dead. [/QUOTE]
Government does not create jobs. Nor should it. There are already too many departments in the government that spend too much, infringe on the rights of the people, and overlap responsibilities on a dozen different layers.
Private industry creates actual careers. Places people can work and provide a product or service that the people wants, and that the people have the option of not using if they don't want to. Point out a single government agency who's product we can opt out of.
[QUOTE=Ridge;27209167]Fuck you and fuck the Republicans. It amuses me to no end that liberals think the republican party is too far right and people that are actual fiscal conservatives think the republican party is too centrist. I'm a libertarian, I think government serves no purpose other than to be a moderator between the states and to raise an army to defend them. I don't think the government has the right or should be expected to meddle with private industry, or to violate the basic rule of free market and keep unwanted businesses afloat at the expense of the people that don't want their products or services. This goes for GM and AmTrak, too.[/QUOTE]
your ideology can be blamed for the shit hole the US dug itself
[QUOTE=Ridge;27209229]Government does not create jobs. Nor should it. There are already too many departments in the government that spend too much, infringe on the rights of the people, and overlap responsibilities on a dozen different layers.
Private industry creates actual careers. Places people can work and provide a product or service that the people wants, and that the people have the option of not using if they don't want to. Point out a single government agency who's product we can opt out of.[/QUOTE]
You can't for the reason that you're not supposed to because they're public services. You don't have to use them, but you're going to pay for them. You live in societies like ours, that society exists because of the government and often because of government services have we made it as far as we have(Yeah, I know, capitalism is god, has done no wrong, don't go down that route, it's not historically accurate) and your success is owed to that society, you made money, you wouldn't have without us, would you? So you owe a small bit of that and everyone can get a benefit from that.
You have a different view on government than I do. I will argue this no further, it'll just turn into a shit flinging competition. Governments can do different things, maybe you should go find a country that wants to be like that, or that the majority of the country wants that, not many of those around(I wonder why).
[QUOTE=Ridge;27209229]Government does not create jobs.[/QUOTE]
uhh, what?
[QUOTE=Ridge;27209229]There are already too many departments in the government that spend too much, infringe on the rights of the people, and overlap responsibilities on a dozen different layers.[/QUOTE]
examples
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