• Marchers show support for 5 Royal Marines charged with murder
    207 replies, posted
[QUOTE=PyroCF;38225913]That's why we have to maintain professionalism. Even in situations like this. It's all about hearts and minds in this war, it's the only way we can fight an ideal.[/QUOTE] well to be fair you wouldn't have to win hearts and minds if you weren't fighting there in the first place it's a lot easier to like a person when they're not destroying your economy and endangering you
[QUOTE=NoDachi;38225976]Then what was the first part all about?[/QUOTE] You make quite an assumption with your question, without us having all the circumstances and facts known.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;38226013]You make quite an assumption with your question, without us having all the circumstances and facts known.[/QUOTE] What are you even on about.
[QUOTE=thisispain;38226003]well to be fair you wouldn't have to win hearts and minds if you weren't fighting there in the first place it's a lot easier to like a person when they're not destroying your economy and endangering you[/QUOTE] I dunno, I think all the merchants in the bazaar here are quite glad that they are getting a lot of money from the soldiers here. Once we leave that source of income for their families is going to dry up instantly.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;38226013]You make quite an assumption with your question, without us having all the circumstances and facts known.[/QUOTE] What is sooo presumptuous about asking a genuine question about the only bit of information we have at all about this case? Yet you were not even bothered by all the prior 'assumptions' about all the people trying to defend and justify the actions of these soldiers. Hypocrite much.
[QUOTE=PyroCF;38226025]What are you even on about.[/QUOTE] I guess I must be trying to read in between the lines when there is nothing there or something. I'll stop.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;38225470]Hate to break it to you guys, but our enemies are not classified as EPW's under the conventions. You guys love to throw that thing around, but have little to no idea of what is actually contained in it. I am given extremely basic medical training to help save my buddy's life in case of emergency, called CLS (Combat Life Saving). I am under no obligation to medically aid the enemy, as I am not medical personnel. It is not within my skills to try and stabilize the insurgent after we shoot them. If there is not a medic around, that is tough. Our own soldiers take priority in any situation, then civilians, then enemy personnel. Now, we can't really judge what happened here until more details are readily available. I am speaking from a US Soldier's perspective within ISAF, so I am not sure if British protocols are different. Correct me if I get any British stuff wrong, it is not exactly within the realms of my knowledge, other than nations in ISAF generally operate similarly, with some differences in ROE and combat doctrine.[/QUOTE] they filmed themselves talking about whether or not to let the guy bleed out. the insurgent was not a threat and they themselves were not injured in any way. to my knowledge no civilians were in the area either. and extremely basic medical training isn't only limited to your buddies.
[QUOTE=RobbL;38224559]That's fair, what makes ignoring that obligation constitute as murder though?[/QUOTE] Ommision of duty can lead to murder. It's a bit fuzzy if it's manslaughter or murder though. Depends on the specific kind of ommission.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;38226081]What is sooo presumptuous about asking a genuine question about the only bit of information we have at all about this case? Yet you were not even bothered by all the prior 'assumptions' about all the people trying to defend and justify the actions of these soldiers. Hypocrite much.[/QUOTE] I have no remorse or sympathy for my enemies. That ran out when they took the lives of my battle buddies. I help kill insurgents. It is my primary job. Sorry. I give fellow soldiers the benefit of the doubt.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;38226176]I have no remorse or sympathy for my enemies. That ran out when they took the lives of my battle buddies. I help kill insurgents. It is my primary job. Sorry. I give fellow soldiers the benefit of the doubt.[/QUOTE] What.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;38226176]I have no remorse or sympathy for my enemies. That ran out when they took the lives of my battle buddies. I help kill insurgents. It is my primary job. Sorry. I give fellow soldiers the benefit of the doubt.[/QUOTE] Not leaving a fellow human being to suffer is what separates us from the terrorist animals. Making the enemy just hate you even more will just escalate things.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;38226176]I have no remorse or sympathy for my enemies. That ran out when they took the lives of my battle buddies. I help kill insurgents. It is my primary job. Sorry. I give fellow soldiers the benefit of the doubt.[/QUOTE] God Bless America
[QUOTE=SKEEA;38226176]I have no remorse or sympathy for my enemies. That ran out when they took the lives of my battle buddies. I help kill insurgents. It is my primary job. Sorry. I give fellow soldiers the benefit of the doubt.[/QUOTE] you sound pretty biased for a guy making assumptions on such a complex case
His shrink is sure going to love his future breakdown.
[QUOTE=ShazzyFreak0;38226118]they filmed themselves talking about whether or not to let the guy bleed out. the insurgent was not a threat and they themselves were not injured in any way. to my knowledge no civilians were in the area either. and extremely basic medical training isn't only limited to your buddies.[/QUOTE] You forget that I am not obligated to give them medical aid as I am not medical personnel. He isn't a threat, granted. He doesn't need to be a threat to bleed out from gunshot wounds.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;38226242]You forget that I am not obligated to give them medical aid as I am not medical personnel. He isn't a threat, granted. He doesn't need to be a threat to bleed out from gunshot wounds.[/QUOTE] But it's not like they were not capable of preventing it. They just wanted to do it for shits'n'gigs apparently.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;38226242]You forget that I am not obligated to give them medical aid as I am not medical personnel. He isn't a threat, granted. He doesn't need to be a threat to bleed out from gunshot wounds.[/QUOTE] oh my god what would pinkie pie think if she saw you saying this ;_;
[QUOTE=SKEEA;38226242]You forget that I am not obligated to give them medical aid as I am not medical personnel. He isn't a threat, granted. He doesn't need to be a threat to bleed out from gunshot wounds.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=SKEEA;38225470]Hate to break it to you guys, but our enemies are not classified as EPW's under the conventions. You guys love to throw that thing around, but have little to no idea of what is actually contained in it. I am given extremely basic medical training to help save my buddy's life in case of emergency, called CLS (Combat Life Saving). I am under no obligation to medically aid the enemy, as I am not medical personnel. It is not within my skills to try and stabilize the insurgent after we shoot them. If there is not a medic around, that is tough. [B]Our own soldiers take priority in any situation, then civilians, then enemy personnel.[/B] Now, we can't really judge what happened here until more details are readily available. I am speaking from a US Soldier's perspective within ISAF, so I am not sure if British protocols are different. Correct me if I get any British stuff wrong, it is not exactly within the realms of my knowledge, other than nations in ISAF generally operate similarly, with some differences in ROE and combat doctrine.[/QUOTE] there's also this thing called moral decency and professionalism. and of course, not being a robot.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;38226242]You forget that I am not obligated to give them medical aid as I am not medical personnel. He isn't a threat, granted. He doesn't need to be a threat to bleed out from gunshot wounds.[/QUOTE] So you need an objective reason to help a dude who's bleeding out? I was unaware the army was now hiring Vulcans.
[QUOTE=thisispain;38226256]oh my god what would pinkie pie think if she saw you saying this ;_;[/QUOTE] after shooting down people with no remorse i like to get some r&r by watching some my little pony.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;38225890]I want to see where you get all of your glorious insight into what exactly happened, seeing as we clearly know everything there is to know about the circumstances of the situation and the actions of those involved. Oh wait. Also, you can totally film whatever you are doing, just as long as it does not compromise OPSEC.[/QUOTE] The act of watching someone bleed to death and filming for personal reasons (kind of obvious when its on their personal computer) speaks about their intentions of not giving aid in this situation. Personally the Geneva convention needs to be reformed so its more relevant to more modern day conflicts that may involved non-uniformed combatants.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;38226236]His shrink is sure going to love his future breakdown.[/QUOTE] Future breakdown? Hardly. Any enemy insurgent that I assist in destroying is another soldier or civilian saved. I have already come to terms with the fact that my job does indeed involve supporting combat operations that kill people. It is just a part of the job.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;38226341]Future breakdown? Hardly. Any enemy insurgent that I assist in destroying is another soldier or civilian saved. I have already come to terms with the fact that my job does indeed involve supporting combat operations that kill people. It is just a part of the job.[/QUOTE] What role are you again? I forgot (Something with helos?). You talk like you're an infantryman.
He fixes helicopters afaik [editline]28th October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=SKEEA;38226341]Future breakdown? Hardly. Any enemy insurgent that I assist in destroying is another soldier or civilian saved. I have already come to terms with the fact that my job does indeed involve supporting combat operations that kill people. It is just a part of the job.[/QUOTE] No, you sound like the archtype of denial and self-justification complex that is common in people not coping with war stress. Christ, go read Dispatches or something.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;38226341]Future breakdown? Hardly. Any enemy insurgent that I assist in destroying is another soldier or civilian saved. I have already come to terms with the fact that my job does indeed involve supporting combat operations that kill people. It is just a part of the job.[/QUOTE] I am robocop beep boop [editline]28th October 2012[/editline] sorry
[QUOTE=SKEEA;38226341]Future breakdown? Hardly. Any enemy insurgent that I assist in destroying is another soldier or civilian saved. I have already come to terms with the fact that my job does indeed involve supporting combat operations that kill people. It is just a part of the job.[/QUOTE] lmao thanks US Military for distilling complex geopolitical issues into singular enemy/civilian parameters 10/10 would pay taxes again
[QUOTE=PyroCF;38226354]What role are you again? I forgot (Something with helos?). You talk like you're an infantryman.[/QUOTE] Kiowa Warrior crew chief. I maintain and arm them. Without me loading the rockets, hellfires, and .50, the pilots wouldn't be able to do their job properly. Part of that job is killing people that are committing hostile acts towards soldiers (hostile act defined as shooting at them or planting IEDs, that sort of thing) and civilians. Also, you don't have to be Infantry to see some shit out here.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;38226433]Kiowa Warrior crew chief. I maintain and arm them. Without me loading the rockets, hellfires, and .50, the pilots wouldn't be able to do their job properly. Part of that job is killing people that are committing hostile acts towards soldiers (hostile act defined as shooting at them or planting IEDs, that sort of thing) and civilians. Also, you don't have to be Infantry to see some shit out here.[/QUOTE] I too am incapable of critical thinking :downs:
[QUOTE=NoDachi;38226357]He fixes helicopters afaik [editline]28th October 2012[/editline] No, you sound like the archtype of denial and self-justification complex that is common in people not coping with war stress. Christ, go read Dispatches or something.[/QUOTE] Heh, I cried the first time I realized that two flechette rockets I had loaded had killed people. A few days later I saw them wheeling my buddies's bodies off of a medevac chopper. All sympathy, gone. The more dead, the more of my buddies come home. Simple as that. Funny how you think you know me better than I know myself.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;38226176]I have no remorse or sympathy for my enemies. That ran out when they took the lives of my battle buddies. I help kill insurgents. It is my primary job. Sorry. I give fellow soldiers the benefit of the doubt.[/QUOTE] [img]http://www.facepunch.com/image.php?u=56396&dateline=1344108133[/img]
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