• Marchers show support for 5 Royal Marines charged with murder
    207 replies, posted
[QUOTE=NuclearAnnhilation;38231788]yeah he died from a gunshot wound after attacking the soldiers[/QUOTE] And this justifies this... how?
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;38231805]And this justifies this... how?[/QUOTE] because it was battle and they exchanged fire? pretty common in war
[QUOTE=NuclearAnnhilation;38231810]because it was battle and they exchanged fire? pretty common in war[/QUOTE] Yes but he survived and they had his life in their hands, so everything before has fuck all to do with it.
but we dont know that. until we see this very vague video we dont know exactly what happened. all were given is little bits and pieces
[QUOTE=NuclearAnnhilation;38231830]but we dont know that. until we see this very vague video we dont know exactly what happened. all were given is little bits and pieces[/QUOTE] They had plenty of time and abilities to fucking stabilise this guy.
[QUOTE=NuclearAnnhilation;38231830]but we dont know that. until we see this very vague video we dont know exactly what happened. all were given is little bits and pieces[/QUOTE] according to literally everyone involved in the trial they refused to give medical attention to a dying insurgent. we can hypothesize that the video was actually just them singing campfire sounds around an afghan corpse but i think it makes more sense to go ahead and talk about what the established story is and whether or not they're deserving of the conviction
[QUOTE=NuclearAnnhilation;38231830]but we dont know that. until we see this very vague video we dont know exactly what happened. all were given is little bits and pieces[/QUOTE] This "very vague video" as you call it, was enough for the police to open a murder investigation and charge them. I doubt it's just them talking about how to help the guy before he dies, etc.
but how do you know that? again we dont know anything till we see the video [editline]29th October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=TheDecryptor;38231857]This "very vague video" as you call it, was enough for the police to open a murder investigation and charge them. I doubt it's just them talking about how to help the guy before he dies, etc.[/QUOTE] but thats all the news article says so do we know any better?
[QUOTE=NuclearAnnhilation;38231870]but how do you know that? again we dont know anything till we see the video [editline]29th October 2012[/editline] but thats all the news article says so do we know any better?[/QUOTE] then i guess we can't comment on any story in sensationalist headlines until we have definitive proof available right here on facepunch that the story in question happened. until i see a high definition video of that woman getting raped at EA's headquarters i think we should shut down the thread about it
[QUOTE=Kopimi;38231881]then i guess we can't comment on any story in sensationalist headlines until we have definitive proof available right here on facepunch that the story in question happened. until i see a high definition video of that woman getting raped at EA's headquarters i think we should shut down the thread about it[/QUOTE] you should really get rid of your title, it doesnt do much good for you okay well you guys go ahead and just shoot around ideas and just guess all you want ill sit back and wait till i know what actually happened
[QUOTE=NuclearAnnhilation;38231908]you should really get rid of your title, it doesnt do much good for you okay well you guys go ahead and just shoot around ideas and just guess all you want ill sit back and wait till i know what actually happened[/QUOTE] wow a title zing are you serious i expected more from you dude
[QUOTE=NuclearAnnhilation;38231870]but how do you know that? again we dont know anything till we see the video [editline]29th October 2012[/editline] but thats all the news article says so do we know any better?[/QUOTE] It doesn't fucking matter, unless they were still actively fighting this guy or they were in a position where they literally couldn't have done anything at all, then they are at fault. Plain and simple. Judging by the fact that it's quite obvious that they had every oppurtunity to, then saying "how do u know............................" isn't going to do it. [editline]29th October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=NuclearAnnhilation;38231908]you should really get rid of your title, it doesnt do much good for you okay well you guys go ahead and just shoot around ideas and just guess all you want ill sit back and wait till i know what actually happened[/QUOTE] they let a dude die, what's to speculate?
[QUOTE=Kopimi;38231928]wow a title zing are you serious i expected more from you dude[/QUOTE] tbh, ive always wanted to tell you that. not even in a dick way, just i wouldnt want that title
If one of the Marines were to have been shot and surrounded by insurgents something tells me they wouldn't provide aid either. Something tells me that they'd probably cut off his head, throw stones at his body, then proceed to drag it through the streets. All while filming it.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;38232016]If one of the Marines were to have been shot and surrounded by insurgents something tells me they wouldn't provide aid either. Something tells me that they'd probably cut off his head, throw stones at his body, then proceed to drag it through the streets. All while filming it.[/QUOTE] yeah i guess we should stoop to their level and throw away the geneva convention and just cut off our enemies heads
not wanting to give someone medical aid and doing what they do are pretty far apart
i love how when you criticize the military for doing terrible things people are like "they're just following orders and that's what's important, you can't judge them for following protocol and blowing up a village full of civilians to get one insurgent!", yet when you break the geneva convention it's ok because "war is hell"
its all full of variables, every situation is different i just like to have the benefit of the doubt and hope that it was a mistake or something along those lines. i dont like to just assume everyone is evil
[QUOTE=NuclearAnnhilation;38232035]not wanting to give someone medical aid and doing what they do are pretty far apart[/QUOTE] uh yeah obviously we're not cutting off heads but "they would do it too" is a terrible mindset to have unless you really enjoy abandoning your own code of ethics and trying to justify war crimes
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;38232016]If one of the Marines were to have been shot and surrounded by insurgents something tells me they wouldn't provide aid either. Something tells me that they'd probably cut off his head, throw stones at his body, then proceed to drag it through the streets. All while filming it.[/QUOTE] Yes we get it, you hate Arabs and soldiers are so persecuted. Can you actually contribute to this discussion?
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;38232064]Yes we get it, you hate Arabs and soldiers are so persecuted. Can you actually contribute to this discussion?[/QUOTE] when did he say he hates arabs? you do a lot of assuming
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;38232016]If one of the Marines were to have been shot and surrounded by insurgents something tells me they wouldn't provide aid either. Something tells me that they'd probably cut off his head, throw stones at his body, then proceed to drag it through the streets. All while filming it.[/QUOTE] yes, the taliban do horrific things. we don't. that's the point, that's why we're meant to be the good guys.
[QUOTE=NuclearAnnhilation;38232046]its all full of variables, every situation is different[/quote] Yes and in this situation they had every ample opportunity to save his life. [quote]i just like to have the benefit of the doubt and hope that it was a mistake or something along those lines. i dont like to just assume everyone is evil[/QUOTE] You know, since Unclejimmema or whatever did it, I'll give it a shot. I'm sure if the sides were switched you'd be calling for them to be hunted down and killed. [editline]29th October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=NuclearAnnhilation;38232071]when did he say he hates arabs? you do a lot of assuming[/QUOTE] You've clearly never seen him post. Let me sum up his entire thought process: - Soldiers are perfect - Everyone else is shit
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;38232076] You know, since Unclejimmema or whatever did it, I'll give it a shot. I'm sure if the sides were switched you'd be calling for them to be hunted down and killed. [/QUOTE] well to be fair, this situation would never happen the other way around. they love to torture and hang up, string up, behead and whatever sort of inhuman things they can do to coalition forces when they can
[QUOTE=NuclearAnnhilation;38232102]well to be fair, this situation would never happen the other way around. they love to torture and hang up, string up, behead and whatever sort of inhuman things they can do to coalition forces when they can[/QUOTE] Okay, then isn't it logical to do the exact opposite?
it is indeed, i do agree with you
[QUOTE=NuclearAnnhilation;38232113]it is indeed, i do agree with you[/QUOTE] Clearly you don't because you're saying them not doing it is good. Like what the fuck are you doing?
i do agree we should set a good example, but i never said it was good what they did just understandable can you stop being a prick?
[QUOTE=NoDachi;38226912]I'm concerned that your 'justification mechanism' is a flimsy house of cards approach with dealing with this. As far as you're concerned, your job in the war process is to aid the arming of helicopter gunships with the aim of killing red to save blue. But you're simply putting too much trust and logic into a thought process that is not either of those things. Firstly, you have to assume that your rockets are not causing more harm than good. Which is a heavily contested issue to be so absolute as you are on. Maybe your rockets are actually promoting violence that is killing your 'battle buddies'. Secondly, what if your rockets are directly involved in hitting civilians or friendly 'battle buddies'? What then? We all know this is a possibility, it happens, its war. You seem to have invested this fragile metaphysical meaning after one traumatic experience when some friends got killed. What would you do if this meaning suddenly changed for you again? But this is just one of the many ways in which your entire simplification of the conflict might prove to be detrimental to your physical or mental health. I mean, you've already stated in another thread that you think the Afgani people are "worthless". TLDR: Find a new coping mechanism, that is a little more solid. And stop pretending to be incapable of empathy.[/QUOTE] OK, pretty late here, but just gotta say a few things. I never referred to the Afghani people as worthless. I called their [I]country[/I] worthless referring to the fact that they don't have a strategic value worth enough to be fighting for. The people most definitely aren't worthless, I have learned a lot since being here. Also, you need to understand the Afghan's mentality of how they fight, as well as the mentality of their families. Their families literally have a mentality of "fair game" if one of them gets killed while actively engaging us. That is why the ROE is pretty cut and dried nowadays, so we only are able to engage in self defense or if they are actively shooting at friendlies or civilians. My Kiowas are only called in to engage fighters that are actively shooting at soldiers or civilians, or someone who emplaced an IED in their direct vision. They are also really careful about the use of rockets. If there is anything else in a certain radius other than enemies, then rockets are not to be used. Instead the pilots engage with their M4. Now, if by some crazy happenstance that a rocket I loaded hit a civilian, I would probably vomit and feel terrible for a while, but ultimately get over it as I am not the one who actively pushed the button on the rocket. So far, no CIVCAS has happened since my troop took to the skies over here. No blue on blue or CIVCAS will happen either, the rate we are going, as we are extremely careful, not to mention it is really hard to shoot friendlies. You need 100% positive ID on anything you are going to shoot at, otherwise you are not going to shoot. I am doing just fine as is, I don't feel much horrible stress here, other than if a helicopter breaks and needs to fly in 30 minutes, so rush rush rush and get the maintenance done within that window, as well as the stress of seeing the pilots flying off after I launch them, not knowing if I am going to see them again later. I deal with it just fine, honestly. I am also not incapable of empathy, I am very empathetic. I just have no empathy with the people that are trying to kill people I love.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;38232159]I am very empathetic. I just have no empathy with the people that are trying to kill people I love.[/QUOTE] Does it ever occur to you that you're putting yourself into that position? I mean, you spend more time reminding us you're in the military every 8 or 9 seconds of your waking life, surely the thought "oh this is my choice" popped into your head at some point. Point is, you don't get to choose who you have empathy for when you're in this situation. You have your obligation if you're going to do this. If you have an enemy wounded with his life in your hands, you get on your god damn knees and stabilise him. Doesn't fucking matter if he tried to kill your 'loved ones', your choice, you don't get to sit one law out because you're bitter.
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