Obsidian Entertainment Caves to a Vocal Minority: Controversial Backer Tombstone Changed in Pillars - Polidicks

This is the age of sensationalism, and when attention seekers & policy pushers can receive the attention they so desire, it only loops itself until conflict. Situations like these are unavoidable as a result. The title is a prime example - feelings over facts. Amplifying a situation that the person who instigated this in the first place wants. If people want this self-censoring and social shaming to stop, they need to stop sensationalizing trivial incidents such as this.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47457565]I don't get it man. You ignore points brought up to your weaker arguments and then get all salty by the end of the thread. Not a single gamergaters thinks this is the first time video games came under fire. Does that mean we shouldn't do anything just because it's not the first time?[/QUOTE] If you think people criticizing videogames requires you to "do something" then I'm incredibly sorry

Cool, they changed a joke that was at the expense of homosexuality, good on them. Oh seven pages, huh, lookit that.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;47460451]If you think people criticizing videogames requires you to "do something" then I'm incredibly sorry[/QUOTE] Its not criticism, its crybabies looking for ways to get offended just so they can have an egotrip when they complain en mass and get something removed because it doesnt meet their PC quota. Its literally just people going "remove this sick filth". Just like with comic books, movies, etc. Only somehow they've invented a way to do it even stupider than those who came, and failed, before them. [editline]5th April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Ramen;47460510]Cool, they changed a joke that was at the expense of homosexuality, good on them. Oh seven pages, huh, lookit that.[/QUOTE] God, i dont even know where to start, other than saying that you're wrong. You'd know you're wrong if you even read it.

[QUOTE=Ramen;47460510]Cool, they changed a joke that was at the expense of homosexuality, good on them. Oh seven pages, huh, lookit that.[/QUOTE] Except the joke was at the expense of a presumably heterosexual fictional person.

[QUOTE=RayvenQ;47460533]Except the joke was at the expense of a presumably heterosexual fictional person.[/QUOTE] I have still yet to see anyone break down how exactly either joke is offensive. I'm entirely open minded to the possibility as a card carrying SJW but it seems like what I'm reading is radically different to what other people read and I'm just "not getting it" and can't understand.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;47460544]I have still yet to see anyone break down how exactly either joke is offensive. I'm entirely open minded to the possibility as a card carrying SJW but it seems like what I'm reading is radically different to what other people read and I'm just "not getting it" and can't understand.[/QUOTE] Second one is "offensive" purely for the fact that it takes the piss out of the complainers (aka, nobody but the complainers will be offended by it) Though for the first one, While I'm not any of them, I can understand why Trans and possibly gay people could interpret it as offensive. A Trans person could read it and all too easily, in just one interpretation interpret the person the guy slept with as a trans person, and the offense with that would be in that it's trying to say the trans person is 'a trick' which, is kinda hurtful and insulting to Trans people, the joke isn't strictly inferring that, but a trans person, who, generally, even in the LGBT community are often ignored or prejudiced against. Or an alternate interpretation, that LGBT are a source of shame as the guy ran off a cliff in shame, but again, it's all down to perspective really. Had a long discussion with a trans friend of mine about the joke and he let me know his viewpoint, which I actually sought out because I was on the fence on just how oiffending it was (plus, I don't mind disparging/insulting humour anyways)

[QUOTE=Zeke129;47460451]If you think people criticizing videogames requires you to "do something" then I'm incredibly sorry[/QUOTE] So you must feel the same way for the people who got this changed then, or no? Should no one have stood up to Jack Thomspon? It isn't criticism to have a joke you don't like flat out removed.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;47460451]If you think people criticizing videogames requires you to "do something" then I'm incredibly sorry[/QUOTE] Dogpiling a developer to push your ideology is hardly constructive criticism. And besides that, the reason why we are "doing something" is because we hardly enjoy letting an entire medium that we are incredibly passionate about being co-opted to push an ideology. The ideology being pushed is itself irrelevant, the idea that an ideology that sacrifices one group's voice for that of another considered more in-line with the "narrative" is enough for most people involved to be upset, hence the actions being taken. The reaction would be the same regardless of the beliefs of those pushing them. HumanAbyss is correct in saying that you've avoided commenting on some of the arguments raised against you. I can only assume it is because you concede to them.

[QUOTE=RayvenQ;47460574]Second one is "offensive" purely for the fact that it takes the piss out of the complainers (aka, nobody but the complainers will be offended by it) Though for the first one, While I'm not any of them, I can understand why Trans and possibly gay people could interpret it as offensive. A Trans person could read it and all too easily, in just one interpretation interpret the person the guy slept with as a trans person, and the offense with that would be in that it's trying to say the trans person is 'a trick' which, is kinda hurtful and insulting to Trans people, the joke isn't strictly inferring that, but a trans person, who, generally, even in the LGBT community are often ignored or prejudiced against. Or an alternate interpretation, that LGBT are a source of shame as the guy ran off a cliff in shame, but again, it's all down to perspective really. Had a long discussion with a trans friend of mine about the joke and he let me know his viewpoint, which I actually sought out because I was on the fence on just how oiffending it was (plus, I don't mind disparging/insulting humour anyways)[/QUOTE] I feel like at that point though you are already going in expecting something transphobic and stretching your expectations of the "last woman he bedded, turned out a man" line to their limits to fit into your idea that the author is transphobic. The shame aspect is something I hadn't considered, though in my view that makes him the asshole, not the man he slept with. [editline]5th April 2015[/editline] As for the replacement, I think its genius. It's a jab at the detractors while simultaneously getting around any concerns of discrimination and it gives Obsidian an out. Like I said earlier, it seems like everyone won in this case.

[QUOTE=TheHydra;47454682]she also abused her boyfriend and exploited his mental illness despite being some sort of mental illness advocate that's been my only thing in this entire shit show and nearly everyone seems to ignore it[/QUOTE] Reminder that Zoe threw an entire community of people suffering from depression under the bus by pinning them as a scapegoat for 'harassment' aimed at her to get cheap publicity for her game about depression.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;47460649]I feel like at that point though you are already going in expecting something transphobic and stretching your expectations of the "last woman he bedded, turned out a man" line to their limits to fit into your idea that the author is transphobic. The shame aspect is something I hadn't considered, though in my view that makes him the asshole, not the man he slept with. [editline]5th April 2015[/editline] As for the replacement, I think its genius. It's a jab at the detractors while simultaneously getting around any concerns of discrimination and it gives Obsidian an out. Like I said earlier, it seems like everyone won in this case.[/QUOTE] I dunno, I'm not trans, but I can see how that particular line (particularly the turned out to be) can be seen as meaning a Trans person, but I can also see how it can mean many other things. I can also see how Trans people, who are usually the most marginalised and maligned, even amongst the LGBT community. Doesn't mean the author is transphobic, but it is kind of vague enough to be able to be thought of that way,or thought of possibly as a joke at the expense of Trans people. Consulting with my friend who happens to be trans, his words on it were: "That has potential to be problematic. The wording is really not the best or most appropriate." No straight out "OMG that's transmisogynistic" or whatever, just the fact that it can be problematic and ill worded to people who happen to be trans. The entire joke is on Firedorn, not the person he slept with. On the fence about the appropriateness or humour of it, certainly a bit grim, but that is the setting of the game. Also, I read it as a limerick, and they're rather often rude, crude and possibly offensive. Also, damn this thread, It made me think about my bad back, and as a result, from self depreciating humour, I ended up writing a limerick that would piss the Tumblerites off to no end. [sp]There once was a man who was cripple Could barely move down from his nipple When he went in he barely could swim So sank with hardly a ripple.[/sp]

I think that if we're going to make the assumption that the person was transsexual or gay without being told, let's make a few other assumptions for fun. Let's assume that Firedorn was drunk as well. Let's assume that this supposed transsexual or gay individual took advantage of Firedorn in his drunken state in order to get sex that normally Firedorn would object to. Let's assume that Firedorn woke up the next morning in shock and horror at the realization of having been raped. Let's say he tried to cope with his rape for several months, spiraling into depression, believing it was his fault that he was raped and that he deserved it out of his own shame until he decided to commit suicide to escape the pain. Obsidian makes fun of male rape victims, I'm offended. Point being that there are a thousand different ways one can twist anything in order to make something mean anything if we begin to add in details that simply aren't there.

Outrage over things that happen in fiction, particularly when you sort of have to sell "bad" people as antagonists, along with all the other shades of grey is simply stupid. Not only that, but let's picture somebody actually was a racist, would the outrage and subsequent modification make them not a racist, or just a quiet racist? If it were honestly true that people who develop games are transphobic, racist, pro-genocide whatever, it wouldn't help to change those people that feel that way, it would only change the perception of what they are to others. So the fact that they gain support by caving to those outrages is just odd. "Oh a character in a game wants to eliminate all black people from the earth, but they changed it to give them flowers and nobody is racist anymore, problem solved" The whole foundation of that logic confuses me. You could say, hey, how people feel in society regardless of how other people feel is important - people shouldn't have to hear insensitive people if it makes their life better, but that's just... escapism, isn't it? It isn't real. I'd much prefer a world where people who hate are vocal. Expanding on that, people who actually hate [i]are[/i] often vocal, at least online. It is odd that they don't usually attack those people, because there isn't anything to gain by raiding stormfront, or something? People who are proud of their hate, those people are ironically immune to outrage culture, as they revel in it. Only the people afraid to be called bigots react to these movements. It is a shame the world hasn't gotten over the fact that is a trans person calls you transphobic, or if a black person calls you racist, or if a gay person calls you a homophobe, that isn't necessarily true, and nobody should really give a shit if it's under the banner of "crypto"-bigotry, subtle "micro-aggressions" in which people who are the supposed bigot did not mean to offend in the first place. The whole thing is just, some sort of twisted logic. People have said it started in soft sciences, through college, and it makes sense. I don't know how these people get all cultish from the internet alone, somebody had to sit them down and jam a bunch of retarded anti-common-sense into their brains. Only thing that makes sense to me, or the alternative is that the internet is causing "normal" humanity to absolutely lose it's collective shit. Nerds had the internet for decades and they didn't fucking go insane

Wish these vocal wankers would stop getting so offended by everything they see. Get on with your lives and ignore it if it's such a big deal.

[QUOTE=CaptainObvious1;47461752]Wish these vocal wankers would stop getting so offended by everything they see. Get on with your lives and ignore it if it's such a big deal.[/QUOTE] Someone should make a documentary about "A day in the life of the Perpetually Offended". Though they'd probably either revel in the attention and be insincere or scream harrasment. But it'd be fascinating to see how they function outside of the internet.

Since I already posted my previous explanation here, I've been rethinking my explanation for the kind of behavior expressed by extreme authoritarian tumblr-people. I've made this realization following a couple of events. First was this post from the corruption thread: [QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve]Didn't help how the internet reacts to that type of person when they are younger. The internet's primary communities unintentionally bred these people, and since they happen to get jobs which involve social (or anything to do with blogs / art ...) we are now dealing with the fallout, and will do so for as long as those people live. Unless people man up and ignore them. Furthermore, I don't think the internet realizes they are creating these people, particularly stuff like making fun of deviantart/tumblr users, when you do that, they just get more solidified in their stances about being offended / dramatic about everything after they inevitably move to a "safe space" where it is further amplified by group-think and the like. Basically dramatic people made more dramatic (and probably lie a bit more) by internet culture, head to safe-spaces and as a result become even more dramatic and bring that into whatever job they get, which is almost always creative-oriented involving something they like on the internet, almost always turn to video games. Then everything Ryo said. I know a person exactly like this, although not social-justice oriented - and the internet shapes their lives very harshly, more then it really should. And if we mix this with the 2008-now culture of internet's "viral" phase (or sentimentalization phase) we inevitably have a clash, and everything is thrown through a blow-horn even if it's tiny, and just gives dramatic people the attention they are seeking, and it loops itself.. creating what we have today, obsidian is basically proof of this. Tiny people can make huge issues of things, which isn't a good thing. Unfortunately, it's because of this, I believe that unless the internet can solve it's problem of sensationalizing everything that comes through the door, we will be stuck with this.[/QUOTE] Basically, this is the hypothesis that most of these people were just regular disenfranchised and vulnerable youths who then went on to post shitty fan-fiction, fan art, OCs, OTPs and all that jazz. They got criticized to hell and back for it and in order to deal with it they rationalized this idea that it wasn't them that was bad at creating anything, it was the fact that their gay incest shipping of the two brothers from Supernatural wasn't accepted by society due to the blatant homophobia in society (not the fact that it was terribly written or anything). This reaction in of itself is due to the vulnerable stage that the person is in at that point in their life (12 years old to about 15) when it comes to their sexuality and fetishes (most shipping, OCs and weird fan fiction is about the person's fetishes and something they are quite sensitive about). Anyway, so they're all butt-sore about being told they can't write/draw/create worth a damn and they find solidarity with groups of other like-minded people who went through the same thing. The group bounces ideas back and forth and eventually they get picked up by some social science major and away they go. In short: [QUOTE=Talishmar]Oh god. We created SJWs.[/QUOTE] The second thing that happened that, at least to me, confirmed that hypothesis is a reaction to one of the creators of a tv show called "Once Upon A Time" saying that two of the characters in the show would not have a sexual relationship. Twitter exploded with angry tumblr-people saying it ruined their OTPs. One of the actors received death threats, wanting the actor to be fired so that he didn't get in the way of the threatener's love triangle. William Shatner jumped in to say that he found the whole thing ridiculous and people shouldn't be sending death threats over television shows. He was then attacked by a bunch of people using the exact same language as SJW people trying to get something removed from a comic or a game. They called him a cis male who didn't know any better (Shatner was a pioneer in bringing more acceptability of diverse cast members in film and television, he was one of the first actors to perform inter-racial kissing back in the sixties, something he had to fight the executives for and was probably the highest profile case of which that had happened to date) and called him out for oppressing fictional minority characters by questioning their shipping and ignoring the death threats of people completely unrelated to the show. [QUOTE=Ninja Gnome]okay, so if i have it right, an actor for the show "once upon a time" got a death threat or something by a fan of the show who wanted to get him fired so that their gay slash relationship has a chance of happening in the show. Shatner basically said "any faction of fandom that plans to get actors in the show fired need to check themselves" and "this slash community needs to police its own", people came out saying "i am offended that you, a person of privilege, would tell, a marginalized community how to act" and "when he gets death threats he gets media attention, when i get death threats i don't"[/QUOTE] We don't necessarily realize it when they're doing it to video games or comic books because they are at least fairly controversial areas of entertainment unfortunately, but these guys argue with the same ferocity about shipping fictional characters as they do about apparently transphobic video games. Their entire grasp of reality is incredibly loose and hinges on internet memes and culture. I don't know what to even feel about that.

an update courtesy of hidole555 in the other thread [QUOTE=Hidole555;47465907]One final update about the Pillars of Eternity thing. Someone made a mod that adds in the old limerick. You can choose whether to have it replace the changed one, effectively making things as they were before all this, or you can have it as an addition that keeps the changed one as well. SJW's abuse the report feature to try to get the mod pulled from NexusMods. Moderators are not having that shit, saying bans will be handed out if they continue spamming the report function. Archive that directly highlights moderator's comment: [URL="https://archive.today/Mn0Mf#selection-2099.0-2099.239"]https://archive.today/Mn0Mf#selection-2099.0-2099.239[/URL] Direct link to the mod: [URL="http://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity/mods/28/?"]http://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity/mods/28/?[/URL] also the moderator's avatar reminds me of the Austin Powers era of SH [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/RJhfmP2.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]