Obsidian Entertainment Caves to a Vocal Minority: Controversial Backer Tombstone Changed in Pillars - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Zeke129;47453161]If I email a company with "I don't like X", and they change X to Y, does this mean I have censored the company?[/QUOTE] The first part is call protesting while the second (assuming it's related) is editing. If it was X to nothing or to something completely unrelated that is censoring. Self-Censorship due to backlash is still censorship.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47453153]If a larger group was being ignored, isn't it? Like, just be definition...?[/QUOTE] I guess game development is a democracy now! Just because more people want something doesn't mean that they are right or that they get what they want

[QUOTE=Glent;47453188] I personally don't believe the joke needed to be removed, to be clear.[/QUOTE] I don't think it needed to be removed either but all the people involved in putting it there chose to remove it. Maybe people should respect that instead of making everything a battleground for videogame censorship.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;47453187]They didn't pay for it, they got it as a gift in exchange for providing backing funds for the game. Undoubtedly Obsidian reserved the right to omit or alter anything submitted. If this had been changed before release nobody would notice anything different. Nothing would be lacking from the game and nobody would have anything to care about. However, the degree of "censorship" would still have been the same - a backer would not have been able to include the text they wanted. Why does the fact it's happening now instead of a couple months ago matter?[/QUOTE] Why does a simple dumb joke deserve to be censored in a game where you kill things? If it was really offensive, it would have been removed originally, people seeking to be offended by something sought to change the game, they did so, they didn't have any right to do that anymore so than I would have the right to drum up a few hundred people to remove something I personally didn't like. It's a ridiculous idea that this should just be accepted. Do we just want to have the most vocal of groups make the creative decisions that we all have to accept? I don't, why do I get no voice?

[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;47453208]Goes both ways, is important to remember. If one person makes it such an issue the opposed person is going to make it an issue, see my above comment. Also seems your more angry at the lack of a status quo then anything.[/QUOTE] "angry at the lack of a status quo?" What the heck does that horse shit mean?

[QUOTE=Zeke129;47453216]The person who wrote the poem WAS listened to. He said he didn't care. He chose to not make this political and that says a hell of a lot about the people who [i]are[/i].[/QUOTE] Does it? Does it smear us all as dumb shit nerds who can't take a joke? okay, or does that just say something about how YOU choose to see other people when they don't like anti consumerist, jack thompson esque bullshit?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47453234]Why does a simple dumb joke deserve to be censored in a game where you kill things? If it was really offensive, it would have been removed originally, people seeking to be offended by something sought to change the game, they did so, they didn't have any right to do that anymore so than I would have the right to drum up a few hundred people to remove something I personally didn't like. It's a ridiculous idea that this should just be accepted. Do we just want to have the most vocal of groups make the creative decisions that we all have to accept? I don't, why do I get no voice?[/QUOTE] What I don't get is why you don't believe a creative decision is valid once it's been influenced by something or someone who is not the creator

[QUOTE=GeneralSpecific;47453198]Gamer gate fucking 2.0 in here. If you are legit upset about this, then I will leave and let you wallow in your self righteous indignation and I hope I honestly fucking hope that you can get some perspective eventually and start acting like a fucking adult and let people get offended and be sensitive and change their minds over things without whipping out your dick and stroking yourself over evey perceived injustice that ever happens on the Internet I mean really Fuck[/QUOTE] Yeah there's no ego stroking going on in this post, none what so ever. i mean if you're going to be ironic and a hypocrite it would be nice if you were self aware.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47453240]Does it? Does it smear us all as dumb shit nerds who can't take a joke? okay, or does that just say something about how YOU choose to see other people when they don't like anti consumerist, jack thompson esque bullshit?[/QUOTE] Jack Thompson wanted to use the law to ban video games he didn't like, which is a far cry from people freely exchanging ideas on an internet forum and a game developer willingly making changes based on that free exchange of ideas. The real suppression of free speech would be telling game developers they aren't allowed to change things based on what a minority says.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47453234]Why does a simple dumb joke deserve to be censored in a game where you kill things? If it was really offensive, it would have been removed originally, people seeking to be offended by something sought to change the game, they did so, they didn't have any right to do that anymore so than I would have the right to drum up a few hundred people to remove something I personally didn't like. It's a ridiculous idea that this should just be accepted. Do we just want to have the most vocal of groups make the creative decisions that we all have to accept? I don't, why do I get no voice?[/QUOTE] Dude u have a voice and ur using it now, not my problem you didnt get what you want are you going to stop crying about it any time soon?

Can someone explain to me, exactly, how it is offensive? A man who slept around a lot got drunk and slept with transvestite/transsexual and then killed himself out of shame. What's the offensive part? That he killed himself over it?

[QUOTE=.Lain;47453077]the only way you could interpret that as having nothing offensive in it in 2015 is if you had no eyeballs[/QUOTE] I agree that it is offensive to people who had loved ones who fell off cliffs. If you see anything else that is offensive in it, you might need to see stuff through a different perceptive. Just saying. It doesn't even say who the other person was, for all we know Firedorn shagged a fucking buff man with a one metre beard.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;47453242]What I don't get is why you don't believe a creative decision is valid once it's been influenced by something or someone who is not the creator[/QUOTE] it's not a creative decision that was made by the free choice of those people, and those creators. You know as well as I do that causing a ruckus and making a political issue out of something can cause to bigger backlashes down the road if not addressed, it seems to me that when you threaten someone with a riotous lynch mob of angry people upset over a silly joke, you're not going to have that team making that decision in a vacuum, it doesn't seem like it's a creative decision anymore, but a designed by committee level of ridiculousness.

[QUOTE=.Lain;47453099]according to who? do 9/11 victims have to be in the mood to be offended by 9/11 jokes or something too?[/QUOTE] Did you just seriously compare 9/11 to a transgender joke

[QUOTE=GeneralSpecific;47453247]Dude u have a voice and ur using it now, not my problem you didnt get what you want are you going to stop crying about it any time soon?[/QUOTE] Yes, crying about it, that's what I'm doing.

[QUOTE=GeneralSpecific;47453239]"angry at the lack of a status quo?" What the heck does that horse shit mean?[/QUOTE] Googling it is a start. It means your angry that everything isn't as-is, when nobody cared and things just happened. Basically how it was before gamergate or tumblr ever happened. No transitions, no outrage, no change. Also might be best to take a rest before discussing stuff, it's quite clear your agitated by this and it would be best if you looked at this with more of a clear head so you can discuss more freely and without people getting angry at your anger. It would be best if[I] a lot[/I] of people did that actually. This isn't a big deal and is just going to cause 10 pages of a shitstorm if you don't discuss this calmly. Everybody going "YOUR CRYING" "no I am not!!" really makes both of you look smart...

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47453257]it's not a creative decision that was made by the free choice of those people, and those creators. You know as well as I do that causing a ruckus and making a political issue out of something can cause to bigger backlashes down the road if not addressed, it seems to me that when you threaten someone with a riotous lynch mob of angry people upset over a silly joke, you're not going to have that team making that decision in a vacuum, it doesn't seem like it's a creative decision anymore, but a designed by committee level of ridiculousness.[/QUOTE] It sure is good you literally wprk for obsidian and know exactly what you are talking about Lol

this whole thing is ridiculous there was literally nothing transphobic about the poem except the character being joked about, and said character is [I]dead[/I] because of that they didn't make a positive light of it or anything, the whole thing got blown out of proportion just like everything does these days

[QUOTE=Gray Altoid;47453255]Can someone explain to me, exactly, how it is offensive? A man who slept around a lot got drunk and slept with transvestite/transsexual and then killed himself out of shame. What's the offensive part? That he killed himself over it?[/QUOTE] As TB said, it seemed more like a joke on the 'hero' than the other person who was never even stated to be a transvestite or a transsexual. [QUOTE=Zeke129;47453272]The ruckus caused by changing it has become far larger than the ruckus that was originally caused by it existing. If their true goal was ruckus-minimizing they would have completely ignored it because we've seen over and over that when you don't address these things they don't get larger than a few tumblr blogs and retweets.[/QUOTE] How many times are you going to try to pull the "Oh they new they were going to cause a ruckus, you're just falling for it" card. Because frankly I didn't buy it in the DC thread and I am still not buying it.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47453257]it's not a creative decision that was made by the free choice of those people, and those creators. You know as well as I do that causing a ruckus and making a political issue out of something can cause to bigger backlashes down the road if not addressed, it seems to me that when you threaten someone with a riotous lynch mob of angry people upset over a silly joke, you're not going to have that team making that decision in a vacuum, it doesn't seem like it's a creative decision anymore, but a designed by committee level of ridiculousness.[/QUOTE] The ruckus caused by changing it has become far larger than the ruckus that was originally caused by it existing. If their true goal was ruckus-minimizing they would have completely ignored it because we've seen over and over that when you don't address these things they don't get larger than a few tumblr blogs and retweets. Hell, look at Sarkeesian. She wouldn't have a tenth of the money she does if people didn't explode and start harassing/threatening her and turning her into a big deal.

[QUOTE=Gray Altoid;47453255]Can someone explain to me, exactly, how it is offensive? A man who slept around a lot got drunk and slept with transvestite/transsexual and then killed himself out of shame. What's the offensive part? That he killed himself over it?[/QUOTE] Note how the text never said anything about trans people, that was all put in there by people wanting to be offended about everything. Hell they even tried to skew the narrative to it being that the "transperson" killing themselves.

[QUOTE=GeneralSpecific;47453268]It sure is good you literally wprk for obsidian and know exactly what you are talking about Lol[/QUOTE] How do you have to work at a company to be able to think about the general pressures many companies are under in todays twitter fueled environment? How do you have to be working first hand to have a memory of recent events and trends in media and perception? How hard does one really have to think to imagine consequences to actions?

[QUOTE=.Lain;47453077]the only way you could interpret that as having nothing offensive in it in 2015 is if you had no eyeballs[/QUOTE] A JOKE INVOLVED A TRANSVESTITE IM REALLY OFFENDED. Fucking cry babies on the internet, go outside.

To be clear i have no problem with the original poem. I thought it was funny. I have a problem with people believing that a game company changing their own game is somehow a free speech catastrophe

[QUOTE=Gray Altoid;47453255]Can someone explain to me, exactly, how it is offensive? A man who slept around a lot got drunk and slept with transvestite/transsexual and then killed himself out of shame. What's the offensive part? That he killed himself over it?[/QUOTE] People are taking offense to the notion that someone felt it necessary to kill themselves after finding out the person they slept with was transgender I'm not offended by it but the difference between me and a bunch of people here is apparently that I recognize different people have different lives and experiences and read into things differently than I do

[QUOTE=.Lain;47453063]and [editline]4th April 2015[/editline] it could be a metaphysical analysation of deep space for all i care, it's still in bad taste and Obsidian deemed it so too when it was brought to light. 'stop being so offended' :)[/QUOTE] Obsidian deemed it a good business decision to just say 'whatever we'll change it', you're braindead if you think they didn't know what was going into the game beforehand and just now became aware of it because of all the first-worlder dumbfucks throwing a tantrum on twitter

[QUOTE=Aman;47453285]A JOKE INVOLVED A TRANSVESTITE IM REALLY OFFENDED. Fucking cry babies on the internet, go outside.[/QUOTE] If complaining is crying then look at all the people crying in this thread. Or, you know, maybe you could let people have different opinions as you without accusing them of crying. I've managed to not

[QUOTE=Zeke129;47453295]If complaining is crying then look at all the people crying in this thread.[/QUOTE] I'm doing that too don't worry.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;47453295]Or, you know, maybe you could let people have different opinions as you without accusing them of crying. I've managed to not[/QUOTE] So complaining about the joke is fine but complaining about changing the joke isn't?

[QUOTE=Zeke129;47453288]People are taking offense to the notion that someone felt it necessary to kill themselves after finding out the person they slept with was transgender I'm not offended by it but the difference between me and a bunch of people here is apparently that I recognize different people have different lives and experiences and read into things differently than I do[/QUOTE] it's not like you're supposed to read the poem and think he sounds like a nice guy offended the character was potentially transphobic? good news, he's dead