[QUOTE=yawmwen;36698990]If Democrats don't have IDs, maybe they should get them.[/QUOTE]
I'm down, on the condition the substantial amount of eligible voters who lack photo ID in this country (11%) are given it for free.
[QUOTE=AugustBurnsRed;36700973]All adults are supposed to carry ID with them at all times anyway as far as i know[/QUOTE]
There is such a thing as state ID's you know.
[editline]10th July 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;36708853]I'm down, on the condition the substantial amount of eligible voters who lack photo ID in this country (11%) are given it for free.[/QUOTE]
Why is that relevant? It doesn't take that much effort to drop $12 to $20 to get an ID made. If for whatever reason you can't afford that it's not too damn hard to ask someone for the money.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;36708046]Let me cut out some relevant bits if you're gonna act like that.
[editline]10th July 2012[/editline]
since when did a news article need citations? News articles are citations.[/QUOTE]
Is this about how voter fraud is non-existent? Because I thought that's what you said. That's why I wanted citations.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;36709026]Why is that relevant? It doesn't take that much effort to drop $12 to $20 to get an ID made. If for whatever reason you can't afford that it's not too damn hard to ask someone for the money.[/QUOTE]
I live in a state where effort was taken to change the location of a DMV from an area where people with little access to cars could get to it on foot to a multiple mile drive in the middle of the boonies entirely for this purpose.
You need to fund photo ID if you demand it, or you're creating a poll tax.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;36699191]This doesn't make it alright to commit the crime. Should we not work to diminish crime when it is very easy to do so?
$20, that doesn't have a big effect on almost anyone's wallet. My family is on disability making a couple hundred a month and I am able to get my ID.[/QUOTE]
You obviously don't understand poverty then.
[editline]10th July 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;36709210]Is this about how voter fraud is non-existent? Because I thought that's what you said. That's why I wanted citations.[/QUOTE]
The fraud happens afterward. The logic behind this law is 'You're guilty until proven innocent', which is the exact opposite of some of our core beliefs.
You're contradicting yourself for an inefficient and frankly stupid way of doing corruption.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;36709210]Is this about how voter fraud is non-existent? Because I thought that's what you said. That's why I wanted citations.[/QUOTE]
the rolling stone article is my citation
It's to disenfranchise minorities without Photo IDs. Not everybody has a driver's license.
[QUOTE=prooboo;36714579]It's to disenfranchise minorities without Photo IDs. Not everybody has a driver's license.[/QUOTE]
There is such things as "State Issue ID" that are essentially 'driver licenses' without permission to drive a vehicle.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;36689158]Except voter fraud isn't a problem at all, it's never even come close to being relevant to the outcome of an election.
Republicans would have us believe there's a massive problem with illegal immigrants and felons influencing our elections, but it's just an excuse to pass laws aimed at keeping demographics that vote for Democrats from turning out at the polls. They are the only party in the US that deliberately tries to keep people from voting for the other party.
If you're concerned about compromised elections, maybe you should be spending your time railing against the real problem of corporations and billionaires being given unlimited power to buy elections.[/QUOTE]
Why would photo ID keep you away from voting though? I mean it's normal in most countries.
[QUOTE=prooboo;36714579]It's to disenfranchise minorities without Photo IDs. Not everybody has a driver's license.[/QUOTE]
I never understood why the US never pushed for a federal level mandated ID. Would also ignore voter registration and who knows what else since it would be superflous.
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;36710135]I live in a state where effort was taken to change the location of a DMV from an area where people with little access to cars could get to it on foot to a multiple mile drive in the middle of the boonies entirely for this purpose.
You need to fund photo ID if you demand it, or you're creating a poll tax.[/QUOTE]
To be honest, in most cases I doubt it's a conspiracy to keep people from getting ID's better, but instead a kaching in someone's pocket because the location is down for a better price or someone is influencing to the location to get payment for the place.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;36714608]There is such things as "State Issue ID" that are essentially 'driver licenses' without permission to drive a vehicle.[/QUOTE]
But people don't have those. It's almost pointless to have a photo ID unless you travel internationally or drive. This law won't encourage people to get a Photo ID because people don't care about voting enough.
Other than this, it's wrong to put conditions on basic rights. Limiting one right based on a condition is the same as limiting another. If someone came up with a law that said the First amendment only applies to those with Photo IDs, it would be shot down very quickly (so I hope). Rights with conditions and requirements aren't rights, they're privelages.
[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=wraithcat;36714611]I never understood why the US never pushed for a federal level mandated ID.[/QUOTE]
It's your SSN, though it's not a photo ID. I personally wish I never got my driver's license. I hardly drive and I have to be on my parents insurance until I'm 20-something or get my own plan. It's just a waste of money
also 10th amendment
[QUOTE=prooboo;36714643]But people don't have those. It's almost pointless to have a photo ID unless you travel internationally or drive. This law won't encourage people to get a Photo ID because people don't care about voting enough.
Other than this, it's wrong to put conditions on basic rights. Limiting one right based on a condition is the same as limiting another. If someone came up with a law that said the First amendment only applies to those with Photo IDs, it would be shot down very quickly (so I hope). Rights with conditions and requirements aren't rights, they're privelages.
[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]
It's your SSN, though it's not a photo ID. I personally wish I never got my driver's license. I hardly drive and I have to be on my parents insurance until I'm 20-something or get my own plan. It's just a waste of money
also 10th amendment[/QUOTE]
Well if SSN's are mandatory, why not push for a change in legislation to include a photo with it. And give it to a person on a nice piece of plastic - aka what most European carry around.
[QUOTE=prooboo;36714643]But people don't have those. It's almost pointless to have a photo ID unless you travel internationally or drive.[/QUOTE]
How do they bank? How do they apply for a job?
[QUOTE=Ardosos;36714704]How do they bank? How do they apply for a job?[/QUOTE]
SSN.
[QUOTE=Swilly;36714742]SSN.[/QUOTE]
Oh jeez, I hope that a bank or employer would be smart enough to not accept a SSN by itself. What a crappy bank.
[QUOTE=Ardosos;36714762]Oh jeez, I hope that a bank or employer would be smart enough to not accept a SSN by itself. What a crappy bank.[/QUOTE]
They want to reach a wider customer base. Including the non-white demographics without photo ID
[QUOTE=prooboo;36714797]They want to reach a wider customer base. Including the non-white demographics without photo ID[/QUOTE]
Remind me again how photo ID = white?
[QUOTE=Swilly;36711515]You obviously don't understand poverty then.
[/QUOTE]
Hey buddy, I live in poverty. My entire family is impoverished. My friend and uncle are both homeless and I have several friends who live in run down trailers.
I know poverty, I understand poverty. Don't tell me that I don't understand what poverty is like.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;36714903]Hey buddy, I live in poverty. My entire family is impoverished. My friend and uncle are both homeless and I have several friends who live in run down trailers.
I know poverty, I understand poverty. Don't tell me that I don't understand what poverty is like.[/QUOTE]
So the 20$ for ID that you can afford, it's justifiable and agreeable for you to generalize that everyone can?
You don't know poverty then, you know YOUR poverty.
[QUOTE=Ardosos;36714849]Remind me again how photo ID = white?[/QUOTE]
It's more about economic class. I didn't want to say minority, because the word "minority" disenfranches non-whites. There's an economic bias against other races, and those races end up being poor and living in the inner city. Living in inner cities doesn't require a photo ID.
[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=wraithcat;36714690]Well if SSN's are mandatory, why not push for a change in legislation to include a photo with it. And give it to a person on a nice piece of plastic - aka what most European carry around.[/QUOTE]
because you get your SSN when you're born. The picture would be of an infant
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;36685394]You should be required to show photo identification. That's pretty much a given.[/QUOTE]
You don't understand history, then.
Voter restrictions are how black people were disenfranchised for a hundred years [I]after[/I] they technically had the right to vote. You must not be aware, but black people had the right to vote directly following the Civil War. And yet they still weren't allowed to vote. Have you ever wondered [I]how[/I] that was the case?
ID checking happens during voter registration, not at the polls.
[editline]10th July 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ardosos;36714849]Remind me again how photo ID = white?[/QUOTE]
Historically, voter restrictions have been selectively enforced.
Used to be they could test you on your historical knowledge at the polls at pollster's discretion. Except white people were never tested, and black people were tested ludicrously (e.g. Oh, so you can recite the Declaration of Independence word-for-word? Now do it backwards.)
Same happened with poll taxes and stringent identification requirements. They got away with it by saying it was hypothetically supposed to apply to everyone, and yet it was only ever used to stop minorities from voting.
The reason we don't allow voter restrictions is because they have been selectively enforced to disenfranchise people.
Everyone gets to vote. No ifs, ands or buts. The fact that you people seem to think identification-checking happens on fucking [I]election day[/I] rather than months prior during the registration process is downright depressing. There's a reason why you register [I]MONTHS[/I] before the actual election. It's because if something goes wrong, you still have [I]months[/I] to get it right and still vote, rather than being told to fuck off on the [I]day[/I] with no recourse.
[editline]10th July 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=wraithcat;36714690]Well if SSN's are mandatory, why not push for a change in legislation to include a photo with it. And give it to a person on a nice piece of plastic - aka what most European carry around.[/QUOTE]
Why should we?
What would that accomplish, aside from further stamping numbers on people's heads in an individualistic culture and opening the door to a lot of potential discrimination?
Americans don't like that sort of thing, and it has not worked all that well for us in the past.
[editline]10th July 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ardosos;36714762]Oh jeez, I hope that a bank or employer would be smart enough to not accept a SSN by itself. What a crappy bank.[/QUOTE]
Holy shit, you are talking out of your ass right now.
There's a reason why SSN's are so exploitable by identity thieves. It's because they [I]need[/I] to be accepted, considering they are the only form of identification everyone in the country has.
You clearly haven't ever been to college, considering the applications ask for SSN and absolutely no other official identification.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;36714930]So the 20$ for ID that you can afford, it's justifiable and agreeable for you to generalize that everyone can?
You don't know poverty then, you know YOUR poverty.[/QUOTE]
It's a one time fee of $20. Even a homeless man can get that if the person wants to vote.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;36715227]It's a one time fee of $20. Even a homeless man can get that if the person wants to vote.[/QUOTE]
The thing is people don't care enough about voting to go out of their way to do it
[QUOTE=prooboo;36715236]The thing is people don't care enough about voting to go out of their way to do it[/QUOTE]
Then they don't vote. It's simple.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;36715253]Then they don't vote. It's simple.[/QUOTE]
So you're saying we should sacrifice democracy for homogeneity.
[QUOTE=prooboo;36715292]So you're saying we should sacrifice democracy for homogeneity.[/QUOTE]
I'm saying that if someone doesn't care enough to vote, then they won't vote. Democracy is voluntary.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;36715306]I'm saying that if someone doesn't care enough to vote, then they won't vote. Democracy is voluntary.[/QUOTE]
But it can be encouraged
[QUOTE=prooboo;36715327]But it can be encouraged[/QUOTE]
So give out cookies at the voting booths.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;36715227]It's a one time fee of $20. Even a homeless man can get that if the person wants to vote.[/QUOTE]
Hey buddy, maybe you should read up on poll taxes before you endorse an historically racist institution.
Once again:
Black people had the [I]right[/I] to vote immediately following the Civil War.
So how the fuck do you think they were kept from voting for a century after the fact?
[editline]10th July 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;36715343]So give out cookies at the voting booths.[/QUOTE]
Oh my god are you even listening to yourself?
You do realize poll taxes were part of Jim Crow, right?
Fucking go do some research on the poll taxes and grandfather clause before you come back here and rate dumb.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36715371]Hey buddy, maybe you should read up on poll taxes before you endorse an historically racist institution.[/QUOTE]
Hey buddy, maybe you should stop comparing racist shit to non racist shit.
Is the process for getting a driver's license racist? It requires you to have photo ID.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;36715400]Hey buddy, maybe you should stop comparing racist shit to non racist shit.
Is the process for getting a driver's license racist? It requires you to have photo ID.[/QUOTE]
Hold the fucking phone.
So, you're endorsing polls require photo ID's
and now you're saying the most accessible photo ID requires a photo ID.
And you see absolutely nothing wrong with this equation?
I highly recommend you stop talking for five minutes and think about the shit that's coming out of your mouth right now, because every word you say is digging a deeper hole.
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