[QUOTE=Lankist;36715424]Hold the fucking phone.
So, you're endorsing polls require photo ID's
and now you're saying the most accessible photo ID requires a photo ID.[/QUOTE]
Yea, it's true. In order to get a driver's license you need to provide either photo ID or your birth certificate, proof of residence, and a social security card into the DMV.
To get a photo ID, you need to have a birth certificate and proof of residence. Although there are other ways to get around it if you feel like jumping through hoops.
[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]
A driver's license is not the easier photo ID to get, since it requires taking a driver's test. Getting a state issued ID or a student ID is easiest.
And by the way, student IDs and out of state IDs should be accepted to vote.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;36715445]Yea, it's true. In order to get a driver's license you need to provide either photo ID or your birth certificate, proof of residence, and a social security card into the DMV.
To get a photo ID, you need to have a birth certificate and proof of residence. Although there are other ways to get around it if you feel like jumping through hoops.[/QUOTE]
Have you ever even registered to vote?
Because you provide all of those things already when you get your voter registration ID.
I don't see what the fuck you think you would accomplish by imposing another completely arbitrary restriction that will serve only to prevent people from voting.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36715462]Have you ever even registered to vote?
Because you provide all of those things already when you get your voter registration ID.[/QUOTE]
Yea, so it's no big deal to show it again at the voting booth.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;36715472]Yea, so it's no big deal to show it again at the voting booth.[/QUOTE]
Yes it is, because you already fucking registered.
How the fuck do you think you AREN'T being discriminatory right now?
All you're doing is endorsing restrictions which will prevent registered voters from voting.
[editline]10th July 2012[/editline]
I suppose you're totally cool with Arizona's "show us your papers, darkie" laws, too!
Jesus fuck, stop posting and think.
You are doing yourself no favors.
I like you and I don't want to tear you a new asshole, but if you keep this shit up I'm going to have to.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36715489]Yes it is, because you already fucking registered.
How the fuck do you think you AREN'T being discriminatory right now?
All you're doing is endorsing restrictions which will prevent registered voters from voting.[/QUOTE]
No it isn't. It's not restricting anyone. If you already registered to vote, it means you obviously have proof of identity on hand. It's no big deal bringing that in when you vote just like when you bring it in to register or get an ID.
Voting is maybe a once a year ordeal. It's really insignificant to say that people should provide proof of who they are to vote, especially when it can prevent crime.
[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]
I mean you're making a comparison between a racist institution and just showing ID.
So tell me, is it wrong to make people show ID to buy cigarettes or beer? Is it wrong to make people show ID at traffic stops?
I would even go as far to say that if you can bring in a fucking library card with your name on it, and a birth certificate, that you can get in to vote. All I am saying is that there should be some proof that the person is who they say they are.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;36715518]No it isn't. It's not restricting anyone. If you already registered to vote, it means you obviously have proof of identity on hand. It's no big deal bringing that in when you vote just like when you bring it in to register or get an ID.
Voting is maybe a once a year ordeal. It's really insignificant to say that people should provide proof of who they are to vote, especially when it can prevent crime.[/QUOTE]
Then do explain why the fuck the Voting Rights Act, which targeted exclusively the Jim Crow laws, abolishes the practice.
Fucking learn your history.
And, by the way, I am in total support of a system that would provide free or cheap IDs to people who are low income. It's important the people have some form of photo ID, it makes so many processes including getting bank accounts so much easier.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;36715518]I mean you're making a comparison between a racist institution and just showing ID.[/QUOTE]
Buying cigarettes is not [I]voting[/I].
It [I]IS[/I] racist. This practice was Jim Crow. Its selective enforcement in addition to the Grandfather Clause prevented freedmen from voting for a hundred years.
If you'd stop running your mouth for five minutes and google the shit I've been mentioning you'd realize this.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36715543]Then do explain why the fuck the Voting Rights Act, which targeted exclusively the Jim Crow laws, abolishes the practice.
Fucking learn your history.[/QUOTE]
You're not explaining to me how bringing in some form of proof of identity is racist. Please, explain it to me real fast and I'll stop arguing, whether I agree with you or not.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;36715549]And, by the way, I am in total support of a system that would provide free or cheap IDs to people who are low income. It's important the people have some form of photo ID, it makes so many processes including getting bank accounts so much easier.[/QUOTE]
You have to fucking implement that system [I]BEFORE[/I] you institute requirements, buddy.
You can't restrict voting and then say "oh, don't worry about this problem here, we'll fix it soon!"
You are parroting every racist in history.
[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;36715563]You're not explaining to me how bringing in some form of proof of identity is racist. Please, explain it to me real fast and I'll stop arguing, whether I agree with you or not.[/QUOTE]
I already did.
You clearly are responding to an imaginary fucking opponent in your own head, rather than reading the shit I've typed.
[quote]Historically, voter restrictions have been selectively enforced.
Used to be they could test you on your historical knowledge at the polls at pollster's discretion. Except white people were never tested, and black people were tested ludicrously (e.g. Oh, so you can recite the Declaration of Independence word-for-word? Now do it backwards.)
Same happened with poll taxes and stringent identification requirements. They got away with it by saying it was hypothetically supposed to apply to everyone, and yet it was only ever used to stop minorities from voting.
The reason we don't allow voter restrictions is because they have been selectively enforced to disenfranchise people.
Everyone gets to vote. No ifs, ands or buts. The fact that you people seem to think identification-checking happens on fucking election day rather than months prior during the registration process is downright depressing. There's a reason why you register MONTHS before the actual election. It's because if something goes wrong, you still have months to get it right and still vote, rather than being told to fuck off on the day with no recourse.[/quote]
Stop posting for five minutes and fucking think.
You're spending so much time defending your goddamn bullshit that you haven't even read the words I've typed explaining why it's wrong.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36715564]You have to fucking implement that system [I]BEFORE[/I] you institute requirements, buddy.
You can't restrict voting and then say "oh, don't worry about this problem here, we'll fix it soon!"
You are parroting every racist in history.[/QUOTE]
[i]I[/i] am not implementing shit. I'm not in charge of the system. Just because I'm in support of one thing does not mean I am or am not in favor of other things.
[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lankist;36715564]
Stop posting for five minutes and fucking think.
You're spending so much time defending your goddamn bullshit that you haven't even read the words I've typed explaining why it's wrong.[/QUOTE]
Noted. I'll definitely take your explanation into consideration dawg.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;36715598][i]I[/i] am not implementing shit. I'm not in charge of the system. Just because I'm in support of one thing does not mean I am or am not in favor of other things.[/QUOTE]
You're supporting a stupid fucking idea on the basis of some hypothetical other idea which nobody is advocating but you.
That's dumb.
That's like saying you're okay with legalizing molotov-fucking-cocktails because you also think we should have more fire stations around the country.
Nobody but you has mentioned that idea. Especially not the legislators. None of these lawmakers have said "we should also make ID's more accessible." None. That isn't happening. You are endorsing racist bullshit because of an imaginary solution that exists solely inside your own warped psyche.
They should just scan fingerprints, then nobody would have an excuse.
I still fail to see how showing an ID at a polling place can be discriminatory in itself. If the guy looking at the card is a racist that's a persons problem and that's what controls are for, and that has to deal with the person as opposed to the policy.
If you can't pay for a damn photo ID and cannot think of any possible way to find/ask/sell thing etc. then there's a bigger issue here.
[QUOTE=Ardosos;36715646]They should just scan fingerprints, then nobody would have an excuse.[/QUOTE]
FYI the reason we do not keep non-convicts' fingerprints on record is because to do so would make prosecutor misconduct extremely easy.
If you get a fingerprint off of a gun and your suspect has never been convicted of anything, you need to get their fingerprint [I]directly[/I] from them. Proof that, without a doubt, the system has not been abused, and the fingerprint you found on the gun is near-without a doubt from the suspect.
We do not keep fingerprints on everyone. End of story.
[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;36715680]If you can't pay for a damn photo ID and cannot think of any possible way to find/ask/sell thing etc. then there's a bigger issue here.[/QUOTE]
An issue which will never be solved if those people can't fucking vote.
Voting is the singlemost important political power in the country. You [I]CANNOT[/I] take it away from[I]ANYONE[/I], for any reason whatsoever. You want to prevent voter fraud? Fine. Do it in some way that does not impede the voters.
Black people had way bigger issues than voting during the 1950's. There's a reason why their first and foremost goal was to fight for voting rights regardless. That's because none of the other issues could be fixed if their voices couldn't be heard in the annals of government.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36715681]FYI the reason we do not keep non-convicts' fingerprints on record is because to do so would make prosecutor misconduct extremely easy.
If you get a fingerprint off of a gun and your suspect has never been convicted of anything, you need to get their fingerprint [I]directly[/I] from them. Proof that, without a doubt, the system has not been abused, and the fingerprint you found on the gun is near-without a doubt from the suspect.
We do not keep fingerprints on everyone. End of story.
[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]
An issue which will never be solved if those people can't fucking vote.
Black people had way bigger issues than voting during the 1950's. There's a reason why their first and foremost goal was to fight for voting rights regardless. That's because none of the other issues could be fixed if their voices couldn't be heard in the annals of government.[/QUOTE]
Alright, well this in't 1950. If the subject here is whether or not you should be required to show an ID at a poll that is no longer applicable. If the subject is about how the blacks were repressed and unable to vote due to the past then that's something different. They have the right to vote now, so do women and other minorities. To show an ID at a poll is another safeguard against voter fraud. It's as simple as that.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;36715763]Alright, well this in't 1950.[/QUOTE]
And the Voting Rights Act is why.
And you're arguing against its provisions.
This is Jim Crow bullshit. I don't know how you people aren't getting this.
It was racist, deceitful bullshit in the 50's and it's racist, deceitful bullshit today.
You already prove your identity when you get your voter registration ID. You should not be expected to show more.
If you want to prevent voter fraud, you reform registration. You do NOT push that onto the voters themselves at the cost of their votes.
[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]
And I would like you to show me some proof that it prevents voter fraud, please. If someone is capable of gaming this national system, what the fuck makes you think a picture is going to stop them in any way? Do you know how voter fraud even happens?
If someone can cheat registration, why is your first response to fuck with the polls on election day rather than, say, doing something during registration?
[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]
Somebody picked the lock on my front door! Better buy an attack dog!
That sounds rash. Have you considered just getting a dead-bolt?
ATTACK DOG.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36715789]And the Voting Rights Act is why.
And you're arguing against its provisions.
This is Jim Crow bullshit. I don't know how you people aren't getting this.
It was racist, deceitful bullshit in the 50's and it's racist, deceitful bullshit today.
You already prove your identity when you get your voter registration ID. You should not be expected to show more.
If you want to prevent voter fraud, you reform registration. You do NOT push that onto the voters themselves at the cost of their votes.
[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]
And I would like you to show me some proof that it prevents voter fraud, please.[/QUOTE]
It confirms the voters identity at the place of voting definitively.
I don't see why there's such an issue confirming your ID yet again, I have to do it dozens of times a day for my job in the military. If your a minority whose afraid that you will get discriminated against while showing the ID, sign up to be someone who reviews the IDs.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;36715873]It confirms the voters identity at the place of voting definitively.
I don't see why there's such an issue confirming your ID yet again, I have to do it dozens of times a day for my job in the military. If your a minority whose afraid that you will get discriminated against while showing the ID, sign up to be someone who reviews the IDs.[/QUOTE]
Voting isn't the military. You can be kicked out of the military for so much as having asthma.
Voting cannot be infringed in any way.
You cannot allow the POSSIBILITY of it being infringed.
You people keep comparing voting to things like buying liquor or having a bank account, as if they're even fucking comparable. Voting is a [I]right[/I], in the same way that free speech is a [I]right.[/I] If someone said you should have to prove your citizenship before you can speak to a crowd so as to prevent foreign incursion, how would you respond?
[QUOTE=Lankist;36715897]Voting isn't the military. You can be kicked out of the military for so much as having asthma.
Voting cannot be infringed in any way.
You cannot allow the POSSIBILITY of it being infringed.
You people keep comparing voting to things like buying liquor or having a bank account, as if they're even fucking comparable. Voting is a [I]right[/I], in the same way that free speech is a [I]right.[/I] If someone said you should have to prove your citizenship before you can speak to a crowd so as to prevent foreign incursion, how would you respond?[/QUOTE]
How is your right to voting being infringed upon? If you have to confirm your identity to register what difference does it make to confirm it at the poll?
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;36715920]How is your right to voting being infringed upon? If you have to confirm your identity to register what difference does it make to confirm it at the poll?[/QUOTE]
If you are told you cannot vote because you don't have an ID, you are prevented from voting. That's how it's being infringed. You [I]CANNOT[/I] tell someone they can't vote. Period.
And, again, I've explained the difference.
[quote]Everyone gets to vote. No ifs, ands or buts. The fact that you people seem to think identification-checking happens on fucking election day rather than months prior during the registration process is downright depressing. There's a reason why you register MONTHS before the actual election. It's because if something goes wrong, you still have months to get it right and still vote, rather than being told to fuck off on the day with no recourse.[/quote]
It all happens during registration because you have time, months in advance, to iron out any kinks. If you demand shit on election day, ONE single problem, either real or feigned for discriminatory purposes, means you don't get to vote at all during that election. That is a violation of the right to vote. It is the government's job to ensure voting rights are respected, not the people's. That's why we have early registration, and that's why you only need your voter ID card at the polls.
Shit, I don't get why you aren't arguing the voter ID card needs a photo.
Have [I]any[/I] of you people [I]ever[/I] voted in a US election at any level? Because none of you seem to understand how shit works at the polls, let alone behind the scenes.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36715970]If you are told you cannot vote because you don't have an ID, you are prevented from voting. That's how it's being infringed. You [I]CANNOT[/I] tell someone they can't vote. Period.
And, again, I've explained the difference.
It all happens during registration because you have time, months in advance, to iron out any kinks. If you demand shit on election day, ONE single problem, either real or feigned for discriminatory purposes, means you don't get to vote at all during that election. That is a violation of the right to vote. It is the government's job to ensure voting rights are respected, not the people's. That's why we have early registration, and that's why you only need your voter ID card at the polls.
Shit, I don't get why you aren't arguing the voter ID card needs a photo.
Have [I]any[/I] of you people [I]ever[/I] voted in a US election at any level? Because none of you seem to understand how shit works at the polls, let alone behind the scenes.[/QUOTE]
Okay, so with that mentality having to register would also infringe on my right to vote since I have to show ID for that.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;36716045]Okay, so with that mentality having to register would also infringe on my right to vote since I have to show ID for that.[/QUOTE]
You don't have to show Photo ID for that. You can give them birth certificates, SSN, etc. There's a multitude of ways you can register, all of which result in a unique, government issued registration card (some states even put photos on the Voter ID specifically).
And the voter registration process doesn't happen on the day of election. You register to vote nearly a year before an actual election and (depending on the state) you only have to register every so often, so any problems can be addressed within plenty of time. There are people who work for the government whose sole job is to help people register to vote.
For the love of fuck, stop talking about a system you clearly know absolutely nothing about. Registration works because they don't turn people away. If it takes four months to get you registered, someone in your local government [I]will[/I] spend four months getting you registered. They don't turn people away, and they will never go "oh, no ID? Fuck right the hell off, then, you can't vote!"
That's the difference. I'm not sure how the hell you can't see it.
[QUOTE=Ardosos;36715646]They should just scan fingerprints, then nobody would have an excuse.[/QUOTE]
You're just posting stupid ideas all over the fucking place.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36716096]You don't have to show Photo ID for that. You can give them birth certificates, SSN, etc. There's a multitude of ways you can register, all of which result in a unique, government issued registration card (some states even put photos on the Voter ID specifically).
And the voter registration process doesn't happen on the day of election. You register to vote nearly a year before an actual election and (depending on the state) you only have to register every so often, so any problems can be addressed within plenty of time. There are people who work for the government whose sole job is to help people register to vote.
For the love of fuck, stop talking about a system you clearly know absolutely nothing about.[/QUOTE]
Once again, with that mentality from what you're saying it would be infringing upon my right to vote by being required to show documentation upon registration. What If i don't have access to my birth certificate/SSN/whatever the hell else you can use? You have to pay money to get a new one. So what's the difference between that and getting a state ID/ Drivers licence?
You're argument is based on showing a state photo ID which would infringe on your right to vote, even while the same scenario can be applied to when you go to register in the first place with other documents. There's no difference between the two, if you can't have the proper documentation/identification you can't vote in either situation.
You didn't read a word of that.
I'm not repeating myself. I already explained this.
Go up and re-read.
[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]
And what the fuck do you mean "what if I don't have my SSN?"
If you don't have your SSN you go to the Social Security office and ask them to help you find it.
This is why we give people a ludicrous amount of time to register.
[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]
Jesus Christ you ask the dumbest questions.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36716165]You didn't read a word of that.
I'm not repeating myself. I already explained this.
Go up and re-read.
[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]
And what the fuck do you mean "what if I don't have my SSN?"
If you don't have your SSN you go to the Social Security office and ask them to help you find it.
This is why we give people a ludicrous amount of time to register.
[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]
Jesus Christ you ask the dumbest questions.[/QUOTE]
I'm pointing out the fact that your argument is based on an idea that can be applied at any level in the registration/voting process. It's not like they're going to "take your ID and shove the thing into some hightech computer device to detect the small traces of iridium implanted in the card to see if it's valid or not". You hand them your ID and voter registration card, they look at the photo and the name and you go on and vote. If your ID is fucked up, you have all the time in the world to get it fixed before the election. Like I said earlier if you feel like your going to be discriminated upon by some red neck skinhead prick looking at your ID go sign up to be that guy yourself.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;36716279]I'm pointing out the fact that your argument is based on an idea that can be applied at any level in the registration/voting process.[/QUOTE]
No it can't, because during registration you will not be turned away at any time. At the polls, you will. If at any time during registration you do not have access to your records, the voter registration office will [I]find them[/I] for you and then send you your card. The pollsters will not.
I shouldn't have to explain how voting works to a marine. You know shamefully little about the system you serve and the legacy to which you are a vanguard.
I recommend you immerse yourself in the process before suggesting how it should change.
Lankist is Right Once Again and Everybody Else In The Thread Doesn't Have A Clue XXIV: Part 2
[QUOTE=Lankist;36716321]No it can't, because during registration you will not be turned away at any time. At the polls, you will. If at any time during registration you do not have access to your records, the voter registration office will [I]find them[/I] for you and then send you your card. The pollsters will not.
I shouldn't have to explain how voting works to a marine. You know shamefully little about the system you serve.[/QUOTE]
You're acting as if you do not have the time to get an ID ready to vote. You have plenty of time before the election to have everything you need together to vote. If you fucked up your ID that day that's your own fault for being incompetent, as it would be a requirement to vote just as registering to vote is. You have to show up with your registration card, and you have to show up with a state photo ID. It's pretty fucking straightforward. If you forget your ID you can't vote, just as if you forget your registration card. You have plenty of time to get both in order before an election.
The photo ID verifies that you are the same person on that voter registration card. If I don't have to show an ID, what's stopping me from stealing someone elses and getting information on them to vote as them?
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