[quote]If you fucked up your ID that day that's your own fault for being incompetent,[/quote]
I don't think you understand how a democracy works
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;36716462]You're acting as if you do not have the time to get an ID ready to vote. You have plenty of time before the election to have everything you need together to vote. If you fucked up your ID that day that's your own fault for being incompetent, as it would be a requirement to vote just as registering to vote is. You have to show up with your registration card, and you have to show up with a state photo ID. It's pretty fucking straightforward. If you forget your ID you can't vote, just as if you forget your registration card. You have plenty of time to get both in order before an election.[/QUOTE]
do you know how much more difficult it is to get an ID compared to registering to vote in some areas
i've got friends that have to take a fucking day off to get down to the DMV to get an ID because they have to spend 3 hours on the godawful public transit just to get there. and that simply isn't something they can afford
[QUOTE=Lazor;36716496]do you know how much more difficult it is to get an ID compared to registering to vote in some areas
i've got friends that have to take a fucking day off to get down to the DMV to get an ID because they have to spend 3 hours on the godawful public transit just to get there. and that simply isn't something they can afford[/QUOTE]
So you're telling me that he can't find the time AT ALL ever in the world to go down there? Most of us get to do that every 2-4 years. If I could do it while i was living off of ramen and cheese sandwiches in the back of a guitar repair shop, you can too.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;36716462]The photo ID verifies that you are the same person on that voter registration card.[/QUOTE]
As opposed to your fucking face doesn't?
Dude, voter ID cards are government-issued from the same people who issue drivers licenses, often with the same security measures.
If someone can acquire a phony voter card, they can acquire a phony license.
Your argument is a crock of shit red herring.
[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;36716527]So you're telling me that he can't find the time AT ALL ever in the world to go down there? Most of us get to do that every 2-4 years. If I could do it while i was living off of ramen and cheese sandwiches in the back of a guitar repair shop, you can too.[/QUOTE]
Not everyone owns a car, buddy.
Not everyone can drive.
Shit, not everyone qualifies for a drivers' license.
Blind people can't get them. Ever.
Are you saying blind people can't vote? Or do you seriously not see how terrible an idea this is?
If you can't see the problem with making it harder for people of a particular demographic to vote, you are a complete moron. Plain and simple. There's no matter of "well, if they REALLY wanted to vote, they'd pay the money / drive 3 hours out of their way etc." You can not use that to excuse the raping of democracy. If you make it harder for people of a demographic to vote, less people of that demographic WILL vote, and the demographic won't be properly represented. Passing laws that make certain demographics not be represented properly is subverting democracy, and that's terrible.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36716536]As opposed to your fucking face doesn't?
Dude, voter ID cards are government-issued from the same people who issue drivers licenses, often with the same security measures.
If someone can acquire a phony voter card, they can acquire a phony license.
Your argument is a crock of shit red herring.[/QUOTE]
You're assuming that all states have photos on their cards, which is not true. Minnesota doesn't, Nevada doesn't, and texas doesn't.
[img]http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/4564/votingcard1024x682.jpg[/img]
With that card up above I could potentially go vote as someone else with the proper additional information.
[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lankist;36716536]As opposed to your fucking face doesn't?
Dude, voter ID cards are government-issued from the same people who issue drivers licenses, often with the same security measures.
If someone can acquire a phony voter card, they can acquire a phony license.
Your argument is a crock of shit red herring.
[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]
Not everyone owns a car, buddy.
Not everyone can drive.
Shit, not everyone qualifies for a drivers' license.
Blind people can't get them. Ever.
Are you saying blind people can't vote? Or do you seriously not see how terrible an idea this is?[/QUOTE]
I didn't have a car and there's a thing called state ID's
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;36716604]You're assuming that all states have photos on their cards, which is not true. Minnesota doesn't, Nevada doesn't, and texas doesn't.
[img]http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/4564/votingcard1024x682.jpg[/img]
With that card up above I could potentially go vote as someone else with the proper additional information.[/QUOTE]
Then why the crikey fuck aren't you just arguing for better voter registration ID's?
Why do you insist on leaving those exactly the same but fucking with people on election day?
[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]
You're arguing for this convoluted solution to an imaginary problem rather than just being like "yo put a picture on the voter card."
You skipped a whole lot of steps here just to agree with these texan fuckers.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36716623]Then why the crikey fuck aren't you just arguing for better voter registration ID's?
Why do you insist on leaving those exactly the same but fucking with people on election day?[/QUOTE]
The additional ID confirms your Identity. You're required to have multiple forms of ID when you register to vote and when you get your drivers licence/state ID. If it is that important to have multiple forms of ID when you register, it should be just as important when you actually go to vote.
They should change the cards to have photos on them, but you should still have to show a state ID as an additional resource for verification.
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;36716603]If you can't see the problem with making it harder for people of a particular demographic to vote, you are a complete moron. Plain and simple. There's no matter of "well, if they REALLY wanted to vote, they'd pay the money / drive 3 hours out of their way etc." You can not use that to excuse the raping of democracy. If you make it harder for people of a demographic to vote, less people of that demographic WILL vote, and the demographic won't be properly represented. Passing laws that make certain demographics not be represented properly is subverting democracy, and that's terrible.[/QUOTE]
"if black people really wanted to vote, they'd learn obscure english shit and pass those literacy tests"
you people are fucking blind to the fact that republicans are systematically trying to silence voters. voter fraud isn't actually a problem, especially on a person-to-person level, so why might republicans be enacting laws which disproportionately effect non-republican voters? for an electorate advantage, you fucking dunces.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;36716663]The additional ID confirms your Identity. You're required to have multiple forms of ID when you register to vote and when you get your drivers licence/state ID. If it is that important to have multiple forms of ID when you register, it should be just as important when you actually go to vote.
They should change the cards to have photos on them, but you should still have to show a state ID as an additional resource for verification.[/QUOTE]
I'd like to take a moment now and request you provide information proving voter fraud is a problem of such magnitude to deserve this sort of measure.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;36716462] a requirement to vote[/QUOTE]
a requirement to vote?
there should be no requirement to vote, that's like saying freedom of speech has requirements.
Yeah, he doesn't understand the concept of rights.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36716694]I'd like to take a moment now and request you provide information proving voter fraud is a problem of such magnitude to deserve this sort of measure.[/QUOTE]
I would like to take a moment and request you provide information on why it is so incredibly difficult to show a form of state ID when you got to the polls. If I was able to find the time while working full time, going to night school, using public transportation, and having to take a day off to do so, what is stopping you from getting a state ID?
Its not necessarily the fact that voter fraud is a mass issue, in my opinion it is more along the lines of the how important that vote is and how should be validated completely. If dead people were able to vote for either candidate there's an issue, no matter how small.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;36716778]I would like to take a moment and request you provide information on why it is so incredibly difficult to show a form of state ID when you got to the polls. If I was able to find the time while working full time, going to night school, using public transportation, and having to take a day off to do so, what is stopping you from getting a state ID?
Its not necessarily the fact that voter fraud is a mass issue, in my opinion it is more along the lines of the how important that vote is and how should be validated completely. If dead people were able to vote for either candidate there's an issue, no matter how small.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws[/url]
Now please cite any sort of evidence of voter fraud being an issue of this magnitude.
[QUOTE=thisispain;36716701]a requirement to vote?
there should be no requirement to vote, that's like saying freedom of speech has requirements.[/QUOTE]
So you're saying we should all just be able to walk into a poll without showing any form of anything, without any registration card, and vote?
Also, "dead people voting" is wholly solvable within the registration process.
[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]
What you're suggesting is like saying we need to amputate a leg because we've got a splinter in our foot.
[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;36716790]So you're saying we should all just be able to walk into a poll without showing any form of anything, without any registration card, and vote?[/QUOTE]
Registration isn't a requirement, it's a logistical necessity.
Registration exists because it's the most effective way of enabling voting, not because it prevents it.
If we could account for 300,000,000 people without registration, we would be doing that instead.
Once again: registration offices do not ever turn people away for not having what they need to register. They sit down and help them through the process. The goal is to get people voting, not to stop them in any way, shape or form.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;36716790]So you're saying we should all just be able to walk into a poll without showing any form of anything, without any registration card, and vote?[/QUOTE]
yes that's exactly what i'm saying
strawmen might work on people who have lot of time to waste but it's just going to make everyone else stop caring.
[QUOTE=thisispain;36716835]strawmen might work on people who have lot of time to waste but it's just going to make everyone else stop caring.[/QUOTE]
you think you're better than me?
did dead people actually "vote"? i thought that was typical GOP FUD that turned out to just be dead people were *registered* to meet quotas but were screened out later in the process
it's hilarious and sad that so many "liberals" buy into the GOP propaganda machine when it comes to voter fraud
i was talking about myself vato
[QUOTE=Lankist;36716785][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws[/url]
Now please cite any sort of evidence of voter fraud being an issue of this magnitude.[/QUOTE]
I'm not claiming there to be any sort of voter fraud at any magnitude. I could give two shits about the extra willy nilly shit texas wants to do beyond showing an ID.
I'm saying I think people should have to show a state ID at the polls when they vote. You have to show one when you buy cigarettes or beer, you give one along with your registration to a cop when you're pulled over, you can use it to go to register to vote. I need it alongside my military ID to prove I'm in the military when applying for loans and such. How is it such a difficult concept to understand how simple it is to show an ID along with another form of ID. It's not like the old school jim crow laws, it's not a poll tax or a literacy competencies test. At most your spending $20 on something that you should probably have in the first place, which is cheaper than having to get a new birth certificate or SSN card.
[QUOTE=Lazor;36716855]did dead people actually "vote"? i thought that was typical GOP FUD that turned out to just be dead people were *registered* to meet quotas but were screened out later in the process
[/QUOTE]
there are some incidents that occur here and there, but it's never anything statistically significant
[QUOTE=Lankist;36716792]Also, "dead people voting" is wholly solvable within the registration process.
[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]
What you're suggesting is like saying we need to amputate a leg because we've got a splinter in our foot.
[editline]11th July 2012[/editline]
Registration isn't a requirement, it's a logistical necessity.
Registration exists because it's the most effective way of enabling voting, not because it prevents it.
If we could account for 300,000,000 people without registration, we would be doing that instead.
Once again: registration offices do not ever turn people away for not having what they need to register. They sit down and help them through the process. The goal is to get people voting, not to stop them in any way, shape or form.[/QUOTE]
With that being said the registration card in itself could stop you just as easily as a state ID.
holy false equivalencies batman
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;36716887]I'm not claiming there to be any sort of voter fraud at any magnitude. I could give two shits about the extra willy nilly shit texas wants to do beyond showing an ID.
I'm saying I think people should have to show a state ID at the polls when they vote. You have to show one when you buy cigarettes or beer, you give one along with your registration to a cop when you're pulled over, you can use it to go to register to vote.[/QUOTE]
why
Voting is a right. Drinking, smoking and driving are not rights.
There is a tremendous fucking difference.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;36716887]You have to show one when you buy cigarettes or beer, you give one along with your registration to a cop when you're pulled over[/QUOTE]
okay one is buying a product and another is done while doing something that isn't considered a civil right.
neither of these are applicable at all to a basic civil right such as voting
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;36716901]With that being said the registration card in itself could stop you just as easily as a state ID.[/QUOTE]
which is why there are people whose sole job is to make sure it doesn't.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36716910]why[/QUOTE]
It's something that acts as a second option of identification, something to confirm who you are and what that name (and possibly face) on that registration card are on. Like you said if someone had the ability to forge registration documents they probably have the ability to forge a state ID. That right there offers two chances of being caught as apposed to one. As simple and stupid as that may seem, its the principle of the matter which must be protected. When you vote you are voting for the people who will directly influence your city/state/country's policies, and it should be of the utmost importance to ensure that it is done in an honest and secure manner.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;36716955]It's something that acts as a second option of identification, something to confirm who you are and what that name (and possibly face) on that registration card are on. Like you said if someone had the ability to forge registration documents they probably have the ability to forge a state ID. That right there offers two chances of being caught as apposed to one. As simple and stupid as that may seem, its the principle of the matter which must be protected. When you vote you are voting for the people who will directly influence your city/state/country's policies, and it should be of the utmost importance to ensure that it is done in an honest and secure manner.[/QUOTE]
and why is it necessary
you just admitted voter fraud is statistically insignificant.
so why the fuck would you make voting more difficult
[QUOTE=Lankist;36716910]why
Voting is a right. Drinking, smoking and driving are not rights.
There is a tremendous fucking difference.[/QUOTE]
It's the principles behind it, not the actions/products.
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