Ferguson, MO: Governor signs Executive Order calling to active service "organized militia"
91 replies, posted
I can see this getting much worse, before it gets better.
[QUOTE=Aide;45725592]What the hell is this "organized militia". Mobilize the fucking National Guard it's partly what they exist for.
UPDATE
New York times is reporting the Governor of Missouri is deploying the National Guard.
[url=http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/19/us/ferguson-missouri-protests.html?_r=0]Source[/url][/QUOTE]
organized militia is national guard
People who honestly think this is still about that black guy are so fucking out of touch of reality. It's just degenerate scummy people taking advantage of the situation to go looting, cause anarchy and violence.
It's just going to keep going until it gets shut down by force.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45724433]And to think they'd rather bring in the National Guard than putting Darren Wilson under arrest or even under mere administrative leave. This is incredible.[/QUOTE]
Probably one of the dumbest things you've ever said. There are so many things wrong with this.
Interesting that it's come down to the national guard. Rough situation, but I honestly hope for the civilians and the soldiers sakes that none of this turns into irrational bloodshed. A good chunk of all of this I have the feeling is simply out of control hysteria.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;45726366]Great, National Guard, a further escalation. This is really how we treat protests in this country in 2014?
[/QUOTE]
isnt this how we've [I]always[/I] dealt with violent protests?
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;45726366]Great, National Guard, a further escalation. This is really how we treat protests in this country in 2014?
What happens if the National Guard can't put down the protests? Drone strikes?[/QUOTE]
So what would you do to calm down a riot? Remember, it isn't exactly a protest anymore when it turns into a fucking riot.
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;45726671]isnt this how we've [I]always[/I] dealt with violent protests?[/QUOTE]
But ~The People~ are always in the right and if you even suggest otherwise then you're literally Nineteen Eighty-Four
[QUOTE=ExplosiveCheese;45726703]So what would you do to calm down a riot? Remember, it isn't exactly a protest anymore when it turns into a fucking riot.[/QUOTE]
It's nothing close to a real riot. The vast majority of people out in the streets are still peaceably engaging in civil disobedience. The police are seizing on a few jackasses as an excuse to forcibly put down the entire protest movement.
Let the protesters do their thing until they get tired and go home. Arrest people who actually get caught looting. Stop shooting tear gas and rubber bullets at people. It's really not that hard. The priority should be de-escalation of the situation, not asserting control with overwhelming force. The more the authorities pour people and weaponry and resources into this situation, the angrier people are going to get.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;45726771]It's nothing close to a real riot. The vast majority of people out in the streets are still peaceably engaging in civil disobedience. The police are seizing on a few jackasses as an excuse to forcibly put down the entire protest movement.
Let the protesters do their thing until they get tired and go home. Arrest people who actually get caught looting. Stop shooting tear gas and rubber bullets at people. It's really not that hard. The priority should be de-escalation of the situation, not asserting control with overwhelming force. The more the authorities pour people and weaponry and resources into this situation, the angrier people are going to get.[/QUOTE]
How do you discern between a pissed off protester and a looter/someone there just to piss off the police? In a large crowd that pretty much shows absolute contempt for police forces would make this kind of difficult.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;45726771]It's nothing close to a real riot. The vast majority of people out in the streets are still peaceably engaging in civil disobedience. The police are seizing on a few jackasses as an excuse to forcibly put down the entire protest movement.
Let the protesters do their thing until they get tired and go home. Arrest people who actually get caught looting. Stop shooting tear gas and rubber bullets at people. It's really not that hard. The priority should be de-escalation of the situation, not asserting control with overwhelming force. The more the authorities pour people and weaponry and resources into this situation, the angrier people are going to get.[/QUOTE]
Clearly there are enough people not participating in peaceful civil disobedience if they have to call in the National Guard.
e: I guess what i'm really getting at is I find it ridiculous that you assert the police are overreacting based on a handful of violent protesters. I am no police force apologist, but sometimes their reaction is not completely out of place.
The People of Ferguson vs The US Armed Forces
[QUOTE=Hollosoulja;45726831]The People of Ferguson vs The US Armed Forces[/QUOTE]
ft. out-of-town hooligans and looters!
[QUOTE=ExplosiveCheese;45726781]How do you discern between a pissed off protester and a looter/someone there just to piss off the police? In a large crowd that pretty much shows absolute contempt for police forces would make this kind of difficult.[/QUOTE]
Uh, use your eyes? If a guy is carrying six boxes of brand new Jordans down the street, it's probably worth stopping to talk to him.
[editline]18th August 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Protocol7;45726814]Clearly there are enough people not participating in peaceful civil disobedience if they have to call in the National Guard.
[/QUOTE]
Uh huh. No other possible reason... :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;45726881]Uh, use your eyes? If a guy is carrying six boxes of brand new Jordans down the street, it's probably worth stopping to talk to him.
[/QUOTE]
Right, got it, sit there and comb over a large group of people screaming at you, probably throwing shit and for many being totally uncooperative. Yeah, trying playing I-Spy the possible looter in that kind of chaos also without looking "militarized". We have riot cops for this reason, and apparently people are making it bad enough to call the national guard in for help.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;45726957]What will the National Guard do that the police couldn't? Besides looking fabulous and being a bit better trained?
I mean they're not going to use actual weapons, so what's the difference, intimidation factor?[/QUOTE]
i would suspect the police is strained from working nonstop with little off time, so the national guard will relieve some of them for later.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;45726957]What will the National Guard do that the police couldn't? Besides looking fabulous and being a bit better trained?
I mean they're not going to use actual weapons, so what's the difference, intimidation factor?[/QUOTE]
Don't the national guard get trained in dealing with civil disturbances?
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45727006]They get the same training as the united states army; ie very little to no training in "putting down civil disturbances"[/QUOTE]
Really? Since they're used a lot to quell riots in the US.
I can't find much online except lots of libertards and right wing blogs being super spooked at the National Guards super training and equipment to keep the good american people down.
But I see pictures of them in riot gear with shield and batons all the time.
[IMG]http://media.cleveland.com/pdextra/photo/national-guard-reaction-forcejpg-29f2ce5f52351169.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=ExplosiveCheese;45726925]We have riot cops for this reason, and apparently people are making it bad enough to call the national guard in for help.[/QUOTE]
Oh, so it's all the people's fault? The police have no culpability in how bad the situation has gotten?
The police started this situation, and repeatedly escalated it.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;45727059]Oh, so it's all the people's fault? The police have no culpability in how bad the situation has gotten?
The police started this situation, and repeatedly escalated it.[/QUOTE]
It's a conflict. Escalation occurs as a result of actions of both sides.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;45727101]It's a conflict. Escalation occurs as a result of actions of both sides.[/QUOTE]
Where did the protesters escalate? And don't say looting, because the protesters are not the people breaking in to liquor stores. Did the protesters start shooting tear gas at cops? Or, [I]gasp[/I], throwing a rock at somebody wearing enough body armor to stop a rifle slug?
Can the false equivalence. The two sides are not equal, and they are not equally culpable. You can make that argument when the protesters start shooting back.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;45727601]You can make that argument when the protesters start shooting back.[/QUOTE]
[quote=BBC]Police Captain Ron Johnson said he had "no alternative but to elevate our response" after shots were were fired and Molotov cocktails thrown.[/quote]
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45727006]They get the same training as the united states army; ie very little to no training in "putting down civil disturbances"[/QUOTE]
false
they're deploying 2 battalions of military police, this is their specialty that they spent months in training for and train for a weekend every month and for 2 weeks every year.
[editline]18th August 2014[/editline]
and they're a whole lot better at respecting the rights of americans than the police
[editline]18th August 2014[/editline]
people hate the police, but people love the military, especially when they're sent in because the police are scrubbing
[editline]18th August 2014[/editline]
because unlike the cops who will point a weapon at anybody, these guys will only point a weapon at you if they intend to kill you because you're doing some shit like throwing molotovs at them
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;45726366]Great, National Guard, a further escalation. This is really how we treat protests in this country in 2014?
What happens if the National Guard can't put down the protests? Drone strikes?[/QUOTE]
You're hilarious if you think an [I]entire states's[/I] National Guard can't suppress a handful of miles of a town.
i feel like most of you want to believe that the police have every right to do what they're doing over there. Even with no solid evidence of whats happening since the police aren't allowing media to cover the story which seems so sketch to me. Why wouldn't they want the world to know whats going on.
Police saying that they don't want media or journalists there because they don't want them to get hurt is such a fucking cop-out. Journalists risk their lives every single day in the middle east, in russia, anywhere there is immense danger present.
Covering a possible police brutality story in America is no different. The media knows they are in danger every time they go somewhere to cover such stories.
With that said, I can see that most of the people in this thread are on the police side even though you don't know 100%, not even 50% of who is right or wrong here. This is a race issue, this is police brutality and this is also a human rights issue.
[QUOTE=HookerVomit;45727720]i feel like most of you want to believe that the police have every right to do what they're doing over there. Even with no solid evidence of whats happening since the police aren't allowing media to cover the story which seems so sketch to me. Why wouldn't they want the world to know whats going on.
Police saying that they don't want media or journalists there because they don't want them to get hurt is such a fucking cop-out. Journalists risk their lives every single day in the middle east, in russia, anywhere there is immense danger present.
Covering a possible police brutality story in America is no different. The media knows they are in danger every time they go somewhere to cover such stories.
With that said, I can see that most of the people in this thread are on the police side even though you don't know 100%, not even 50% of who is right or wrong here. This is a race issue, this is police brutality and this is also a human rights issue.[/QUOTE]
I know the police have been fucking with the press underhandedly, but where have they been overtly not allowing media to cover the story? I havent seen that reported anywhere
[editline]18th August 2014[/editline]
pretty much every news outlet I can find seems to have people on the ground covering the story and on-scene pictures and shit, so how would they be getting those if the police were keeping them out
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;45727780]I know the police have been fucking with the press underhandedly, but where have they been overtly not allowing media to cover the story? I havent seen that reported anywhere[/QUOTE]
They've been destroying camera equipment and threatening to shoot reporters unless they stop recording.
That's a cut and dry attempt to disallow coverage if I've ever seen it.
[quote]Police Captain Ron Johnson said he had "no alternative but to elevate our response" after shots were were fired and Molotov cocktails thrown.[/quote]
The earlier reports of gunfire that prompted tear gas deployment turned out to be fireworks. There was a shooting yesterday, I think, that didn't involve police in any way. Nobody is shooting at police. Nor have any police been reported as being injured by Molotovs.
Hell if I know why anybody thinks that throwing Moltovs will improve the situation, but they certainly aren't representative of the protesters any more than the looters driving in from St. Louis are. They're just being exploited as a justification for stamping down on the protesters. Police are repeatedly escalating and worsening the situation, just as they have since one of them started all of this by murdering an unarmed kid in the street.
Hopefully the National Guard knows how to fucking behave themselves better than the police do, but I'm not optimistic.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;45727800]They've been destroying camera equipment and threatening to shoot reporters unless they stop recording.
That's a cut and dry attempt to disallow coverage if I've ever seen it.[/QUOTE]
right but I mean pretty clearly the media doesnt give a rats ass and is still covering it
hookervomit is claiming that there isnt enough coverage to be making judgements[I] because [/I]of police supression, but it seems to me that there is plenty of coverage [I]despite[/I] attempted police supression
[QUOTE=HookerVomit;45727720]i feel like most of you want to believe that the police have every right to do what they're doing over there. Even with no solid evidence of whats happening since the police aren't allowing media to cover the story which seems so sketch to me. Why wouldn't they want the world to know whats going on.
Police saying that they don't want media or journalists there because they don't want them to get hurt is such a fucking cop-out. Journalists risk their lives every single day in the middle east, in russia, anywhere there is immense danger present.
Covering a possible police brutality story in America is no different. The media knows they are in danger every time they go somewhere to cover such stories.
With that said, I can see that most of the people in this thread are on the police side even though you don't know 100%, not even 50% of who is right or wrong here. This is a race issue, this is police brutality and this is also a human rights issue.[/QUOTE]
It's very simple: The police don't want press on the scene because they know that what they're doing is not okay.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;45727824]The earlier reports of gunfire that prompted tear gas deployment turned out to be fireworks. There was a shooting yesterday, I think, that didn't involve police in any way. Nobody is shooting at police. Nor have any police been reported as being injured by Molotovs.[/QUOTE]
source?
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