• Why Millennials Are Ditching Cars And Redefining Ownership
    94 replies, posted
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;41922883]do you really think that's where the cost of a car ends[/QUOTE] Insurance...gas. If you're really lazy you can pay someone to do your oil changes.
The problem with US public transportation is that it is nearly useless unless you live within a rather large city.
The New York Times did a great article a few months ago about how there's been a steady decline in car ownership among youths. The piece credited to a priority on mobile data usage over self-transportation, but I don't think that's the only issue. 50 years ago, I think driving brought a certain sort of independence to young people. Especially for Americans, owning and driving your own car was like a step towards building your own safe zone. You were in control if you had a car and drove yourself places; you didn't need to rely on anyone but yourself, because you could take yourself wherever you wanted. Theoretically, you could go anywhere as long as you could pay for the gas. We don't feel that way anymore. The Internet opens our world - and gives us even more freedom - than cars ever did. There's a lot more independence in setting up your own web page than there is in driving a car. I think the thrill is gone. And what you're left with is a transportation system full of angry, stressed out drivers who prioritize "getting there" over the actual thrill of driving. No wonder why young people don't want to own cars - it's easier and less stressful using public transportation. And you can still stay connected to the Internet with a smartphone. It's a win-win situation. EDIT: Also, since I went to college, I've met a lot of people older than me who don't even have their licenses. When I was in high school, most kids still at least worked for a license; I was really shocked that there were kids out there who felt that driving wasn't a priority. But there are a lot of young people who don't feel like learning how to drive. Not just because they're intimidated, but because they legitimately don't see any use in it. And that's really understandable - you don't need to learn to drive if you have someone who's willing to drive you around in the first place (i.e. public transportation, taxi, a close friend, girlfriend/boyfriend, etc.).
I couldn't imagine not having a car. It is near impossible to get anywhere on time with public transport here. There is the ultimate pisstake route for me getting to work, where instead of a bus going down the highway which connects my house to my work, it goes 10km north, then all the way back down. It sucks how cars are so expensive here in Australia. If you want something reliable and decent, you will expect to be paying $6000+. Anything under than, it's going to have issues and be a crappy car.
[QUOTE=Reimu;41924511]The New York Times did a great article a few months ago about how there's been a steady decline in car ownership among youths. The piece credited to a priority on mobile data usage over self-transportation, but I don't think that's the only issue. 50 years ago, I think driving brought a certain sort of independence to young people. Especially for Americans, owning and driving your own car was like a step towards building your own safe zone. You were in control if you had a car and drove yourself places; you didn't need to rely on anyone but yourself, because you could take yourself wherever you wanted. Theoretically, you could go anywhere as long as you could pay for the gas. We don't feel that way anymore. The Internet opens our world - and gives us even more freedom - than cars ever did. There's a lot more independence in setting up your own web page than there is in driving a car. I think the thrill is gone. And what you're left with is a transportation system full of angry, stressed out drivers who prioritize "getting there" over the actual thrill of driving. No wonder why young people don't want to own cars - it's easier and less stressful using public transportation. And you can still stay connected to the Internet with a smartphone. It's a win-win situation. EDIT: Also, since I went to college, I've met a lot of people older than me who don't even have their licenses. When I was in high school, most kids still at least worked for a license; I was really shocked that there were kids out there who felt that driving wasn't a priority. But there are a lot of young people who don't feel like learning how to drive. Not just because they're intimidated, but because they legitimately don't see any use in it. And that's really understandable - you don't need to learn to drive if you have someone who's willing to drive you around in the first place (i.e. public transportation, taxi, a close friend, girlfriend/boyfriend, etc.).[/QUOTE] I was in an accident and my car was totaled once. I went like 5 months without a car and nearly lost my mind from having to rely on other people/vehicles. Maybe that's just me though.
I live on a highway in the mountains. I love my car.
[QUOTE=areolop;41924000]We are not buying cars because they are "too safe" wtf kind of logic is that[/QUOTE] Aren't cars one of the most dangerous methods of travel? [editline]22nd August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Reimu;41924511]50 years ago, I think driving brought a certain sort of independence to young people. Especially for Americans, owning and driving your own car was like a step towards building your own safe zone. You were in control if you had a car and drove yourself places; you didn't need to rely on anyone but yourself, because you could take yourself wherever you wanted. Theoretically, you could go anywhere as long as you could pay for the gas. We don't feel that way anymore. The Internet opens our world - and gives us even more freedom - than cars ever did. There's a lot more independence in setting up your own web page than there is in driving a car.[/QUOTE] I disagree, that's still how I feel about my car
[QUOTE=No_Excuses;41924550]I was in an accident and my car was totaled once. I went like 5 months without a car and nearly lost my mind from having to rely on other people/vehicles. Maybe that's just me though.[/QUOTE] To be honest I think it depends on the area and who you know. I mean if I need to go somewhere, one of my friends can almost always get me from Point A to Point B. Plus I go to school at an urban area with a strong public transportation system, so there's of course that :v:. No one brings a car unless they need to commute, and even then, they almost always use the buses to get themselves across campus. [editline]22nd August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Liem;41924559]I disagree, that's still how I feel about my car[/QUOTE] I don't think it's completely gone, but I think it's starting to decline. Especially with younger people. The statistics suggest that, at the very least, youths aren't buying cars and getting their licenses the same way that they use to.
I wouldn't want/need a car if I lived in a bigger city. I already prefer walking to most places here, but although I live in a pretty big city, it's not big enough in the sense that there's still some specific services and stuff that you can only find in certain parts of the city. Not to mention, public transportation isn't really that good.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;41924477]Why do you people use public transport? You can get a nice motorcycle for 2-3k.[/QUOTE] Winter.
I like living in the Seattle area. There's a bunch of bus routes everywhere. And even if I'm taking Sound Transit multi-county (at $3.50) I'm still spending far less than I would on gas, especially since I get to transfer with my ORCA.
Have you never been to California? Its not 90 and sunny everywhere.. they have mountains too
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;41924851]Well the context of the original post was California, where there is no snow. Either way it's still better than riding some shitty bus around 8 months a year, is it not? The real reason is probably that all the Facepunchers whining about automotive prices are the ones that don't have 2-3k for a bike from waiting tables or being the manager at Target, but alright.[/QUOTE] It's not just the initial cost of the vehicle You also have to consider gas, insurance, maintenance etc.
You idiots have fun with that. Meanwhile, more cars for me to enjoy!
i did public transport through most of my middle school and highschool life, and i am 100% done with standing for an hour at a bus stop, hobos who smell like diarrhea, and violent meth heads. also, getting weed sold [I]over my lap[/I]. one guy on my left told the couple on my right if they wanted some bud, and the guy pulled out a huge bag of weed, and they traded the weed and cash literally in front of my face. public transport SUCKS
[QUOTE=mugofdoom;41919872]Who the hell thinks this? You're talking about an urban environment where just about everything you need is within walking distance from you, with wide access to public transportation, and you think you [I]need[/I] a car? Christ no wonder the air quality is shit over there. Fucking city kids thinking they're making some huge sacrifice not buying an entire car to carry a fucking "small toolbox" around the city in. Shit.[/QUOTE] You've probably never been to LA before, the public transportation is shit. And it's more of a big town than it is a city. What you said could easily apply to NYC and San Francisco or any other big city, but LA is in a different class on it's own. [editline]22nd August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=FinalHunter;41924851]Well the context of the original post was California, where there is no snow. Either way it's still better than riding some shitty bus around 8 months a year, is it not? The real reason is probably that all the Facepunchers whining about automotive prices are the ones that don't have 2-3k for a bike from waiting tables or being the manager at Target, but alright.[/QUOTE] LA doesn't get snow, but California isn't full of areas with perfect weather. I live in the desert area and it usually gets down to 15 Fahrenheit during the winter and we actually get snow every now and then. So many people in here clearly have no idea what California is actually like, christ.
[QUOTE=Biotoxsin;41919504]I'm not why this would come as a surprise to anyone given that cars are so expensive to own today. Obscene gas prices, a lack of decent new cars on the market for a reasonable price, and high insurance costs make it very difficult to have a car when you're on a budget that makes you go into massive debt for a basic education beyond highschool.[/QUOTE] I will admit I always find it utterly hilarious when americans talk about obscene gas prices, obscene car prices and similar. Considering your minimum wage is often higher than our average and the prices of the things are minimal in the US. I know that for some people it's just not affordable, most of all if coupled with the lack of state guaranteed medical insurance, but I doubt it's even close to the majority. The only real reason people (and usually single people only) are not getting a car in the US, is because in a lot of cases they just realise they don't need it anymore since the public transport is sort of getting closer to manageable.
[QUOTE=VagueWisdom;41925980]You've probably never been to LA before, the public transportation is shit. And it's more of a big town than it is a city. What you said could easily apply to NYC and San Francisco or any other big city, but LA is in a different class on it's own. [editline]22nd August 2013[/editline] LA doesn't get snow, but California isn't full of areas with perfect weather. I live in the desert area and it usually gets down to 15 Fahrenheit during the winter and we actually get snow every now and then. So many people in here clearly have no idea what California is actually like, christ.[/QUOTE] where i live in california, it dumps rain for 3 months solid, and then there is tons of landslides and down trees that make getting anywhere impossible. and when those trees come down, the power goes out. (and the transformer at the top of the street keeps filling up with water and exploding) The longest ive been without power is 5 days. Its a lot longer than you think. All your food spoils, you come home to a dark house, and its freezing. It sucks in the winter here. [editline]22nd August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=wraithcat;41926003]I will admit I always find it utterly hilarious when americans talk about obscene gas prices, obscene car prices and similar. Considering your minimum wage is often higher than our average and the prices of the things are minimal in the US. I know that for some people it's just not affordable, most of all if coupled with the lack of state guaranteed medical insurance, but I doubt it's even close to the majority. The only real reason people (and usually single people only) are not getting a car in the US, is because in a lot of cases they just realise they don't need it anymore since the public transport is sort of getting closer to manageable.[/QUOTE] When you make $8.00, and your car get 25 mpg, and gas is $4.00 for most, your job just pays off your gas.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;41922511]Ugh, I am so sick and tired of trend pieces saying millennials don't like cars and are dooming the auto industry. The average price of a new car is around $30,000, and we're all saddled with at least that much in non-dischargable student loan debt. I don't see a brand new car being feasible for me until my 50s. When real life comes calling and you have to get off the skateboard and find a reliable means of getting to work, we'll all be getting cars. They just aren't going to be brand new Fords.[/QUOTE] New car? Are you mad and/or rich!? Only rich people buy new cars. Hell, buying one of the cheapest new cars is a worser deal than buying some used cars. It doesn't even makes sense. Car brands like Nissan make those cheap ass cars that cost like 10.000€ or something, which have TERRIBLE build quality, no extras whatsoever, not even electric windows, and then you got used cars on sale that most likely come with every single extra they can come with, for maybe half that price, better build quality, and probably even more power, for the same gas consumption.
[QUOTE=notlabbet;41927843]where i live in california, it dumps rain for 3 months solid, and then there is tons of landslides and down trees that make getting anywhere impossible. and when those trees come down, the power goes out. (and the transformer at the top of the street keeps filling up with water and exploding) The longest ive been without power is 5 days. Its a lot longer than you think. All your food spoils, you come home to a dark house, and its freezing. It sucks in the winter here. [editline]22nd August 2013[/editline] When you make $8.00, and your car get 25 mpg, and gas is $4.00 for most, your job just pays off your gas.[/QUOTE] I know this is poordickwaving but to explain why I find it hilarious. Going by average wages, you¨d make 7.1USD an hour, the gas prices would run at least 6.5USd and the MPG wouldn't be all that different. - if you're young, you can expect a fairly good rate per hour to be six bucks or so by the way. Not to mention your drivers licenses are dirt cheap, car maintenance is dirt cheap, car insurance is often cheaper as well and many many many other factors. Money really really isn't the issue here. It's fairly obviously more the case that those younger people no longer need a car since public transit is improving. [editline]22nd August 2013[/editline] So yes, I do find americans talking about how expensive cars are to have to be a little bit hilarious.
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[QUOTE]Zach Brown's preferred mode of transportation is his skateboard. Brown, 27, is an artist and actor who doesn't own a car.[/QUOTE] [video=youtube;o_5uVdy5YmA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_5uVdy5YmA[/video]
[QUOTE=No_Excuses;41922797]Can't even drop a few grand on a used car? Is it really that bad?[/QUOTE] What kind of ass do you pull 'a few grand' from, exactly? I don't know about you but I don't have that kind of money to just drop on anything.
It's true that it's not necessary to drive or own a car. Public transport is especially good in metropolitan areas like the areas like the greater LA area. There are tons of benefits to owning a car, though, and I would hate having to ride the bus again.
[QUOTE=Megafan;41930723]What kind of ass do you pull 'a few grand' from, exactly? I don't know about you but I don't have that kind of money to just drop on anything.[/QUOTE] I pulled "a few grand" (about 2.5k) from my own ass account from my own savings while having a constant and decent job. It took some budgeting and some cutbacks on other things I enjoy, but it was an excellent investment, and I am no worse off then when I was without a car.
[QUOTE=Epiclulz762;41930453]I'd like a motorcycle for that 30-60mpg. Liability insurance + cheap gas + back roads = easy and fast trip to work.[/QUOTE] Damn I always keep getting confused by MPG since I'm used to l/km so seeing a larger number makes me go whut at first.
[QUOTE=Reimu;41924511]The New York Times did a great article a few months ago about how there's been a steady decline in car ownership among youths. The piece credited to a priority on mobile data usage over self-transportation, but I don't think that's the only issue. 50 years ago, I think driving brought a certain sort of independence to young people. Especially for Americans, owning and driving your own car was like a step towards building your own safe zone. You were in control if you had a car and drove yourself places; you didn't need to rely on anyone but yourself, because you could take yourself wherever you wanted. Theoretically, you could go anywhere as long as you could pay for the gas. We don't feel that way anymore. The Internet opens our world - and gives us even more freedom - than cars ever did. There's a lot more independence in setting up your own web page than there is in driving a car. I think the thrill is gone. And what you're left with is a transportation system full of angry, stressed out drivers who prioritize "getting there" over the actual thrill of driving. No wonder why young people don't want to own cars - it's easier and less stressful using public transportation. And you can still stay connected to the Internet with a smartphone. It's a win-win situation. EDIT: Also, since I went to college, I've met a lot of people older than me who don't even have their licenses. When I was in high school, most kids still at least worked for a license; I was really shocked that there were kids out there who felt that driving wasn't a priority. But there are a lot of young people who don't feel like learning how to drive. Not just because they're intimidated, but because they legitimately don't see any use in it. And that's really understandable - you don't need to learn to drive if you have someone who's willing to drive you around in the first place (i.e. public transportation, taxi, a close friend, girlfriend/boyfriend, etc.).[/QUOTE] No. not so much. Real life depends on a car, or a reliable means of transportation. Yes, you can live without them, but there's drawbacks on that in a massive way. I drive, I love driving, I enjoy driving, without driving, my life literally wouldn't work. I wouldn't be able to have the jobs that I have. I wouldn't be able to have the girlfriend I have due to the distances we live apart from each other and the slow and limited approach of all public transit, even in good public transit systems. The internet does great things. It doesn't replace real life. It doesn't replace having a method of mobility that you can rely on. I don't understand the idea that it does, or even could on a large scale. The internet can't get me to my job where I do physical work, the internet can't get me to a different state, or province, city, entirely on it's own. Relying entirely on another person, or a few people to be your method of transportation is limiting. Severely. You may not see this now in your life, but you will one day. I have met many, many young people who don't drive, and even in a city like vancouver with such horrible traffic problems, people know they're going to need a car because frankly, you're not going to be moving around, across, through, or even to different cities entirely without a great deal of effort and even some money. You've gone to college and seen that. I've been through several art schools and film programs for a similar length of time. That's what I've seen. [editline]22nd August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=No_Excuses;41924355]Insurance...gas. If you're really lazy you can pay someone to do your oil changes.[/QUOTE] Insurance, gas, repairs, maintenance. Also, you're writing off insurance and gas as measly costs. Have fun affording a safe(more expensive but lower insurance) and fuel efficient vehicle on a tight budget.
I think I was a little heavy handed to suggest that driving is coming to an end and that young people don't want to drive anymore, but I also think it seriously depends on the area. Zach Brown certainly isn't an outlier in LA. One of my close friends in LA is very similar to Brown; she has a live-in boyfriend and pays her rent through a mixture of retail jobs and doing art work on iPhone app projects and comic publications. Instead of driving, she uses a bike or takes the bus. Here on the East Coast, my desk managers at work either walked to work from their flat, or took a train and walked to the station from their city block. And my mistress makes a living by doing counselor work from her apartment, so she doesn't need a car because she can walk in the city to get anything she needs. None of them need a car and didn't see any practical reason to buy one, mostly because they live in a city where public transportation is available and anything (or anyone) they need lives near them. Granted, that's not the case for everybody - I'm pretty much scheduling my license test as I speak, and I plan on getting a car - but I also think it's no coincidence that the car ownership statistics among youth are declining. [editline]23rd August 2013[/editline] Also, realistically speaking, most of those jobs are on a lower level and simply pay the bills. Obviously, someone who has a higher paying job is probably going to invest in a car.
[QUOTE=VagueWisdom;41925980]You've probably never been to LA before, the public transportation is shit. And it's more of a big town than it is a city. What you said could easily apply to NYC and San Francisco or any other big city, but LA is in a different class on it's own.[/QUOTE] I've been to LA. Stayed there for about a week and did a lot of sight seeing and whatnot. I walked every where I needed to go and took cabs anywhere that was too far to walk or I was too lazy to walk to. Didn't really have much of a problem. I guess I could see someone who lives there needing a car more than I did, but honestly people who live outside of cities in rural areas typically need cars way more than people in cities do. I wish I could just hop on a bus that takes me where-the-fuck-ever, even if the bus wasn't on time. Atlanta would be a city where I could see someone "needing" a car, because you can't fucking walk anywhere and it's cramped as hell. But even then cabs and buses are common.
[QUOTE=mugofdoom;41934743]I walked every where I needed to go and took cabs anywhere that was too far to walk or I was too lazy to walk to.[/QUOTE] My friend in LA does the same thing too. She actually ditched bike riding in order to walk to places or take the bus system. I don't think she really feels like driving is a priority; in fact, in her experience, LA drivers can be careless (one of the reasons why she gave up biking - she was nearly hit by someone backing out).
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