Arizona at it again: New bill requires hospitals to check immigration status of uninsured patients - Polidicks

[QUOTE=MR-X;39397301]You think so? A lot of these "hard working people" get scholarships, free school, etc all the while being here illegally. On top of that they can get free medical care. They pay zero taxes besides sale tax. A lot of these poor immigrants steal SSN's so they can falsely obtain jobs, etc, etc. I can go on and on, not all of them are bad. But it is hardly the sob story your saying. I work a minimum wage job, have to pay bills, pay for school and all this other shit while paying stupid amount of taxes (which just went up...yay).[/QUOTE] shit, I should become an illegal immigrant no taxes, free school, free shit, get to be above citizens in a way because of it so long as I watch myself... sounds like the life. Though, that sounds a little too wild to be true... have a source?

[QUOTE=MR-X;39397301]You think so? A lot of these "hard working people" [B]get scholarships, free school, etc all the while being here illegally[/B]. On top of that they can get free medical care. They pay zero taxes besides sale tax. A lot of these poor immigrants steal SSN's so they can falsely obtain jobs, etc, etc. I can go on and on, not all of them are bad. But it is hardly the sob story your saying. I work a minimum wage job, have to pay bills, pay for school and all this other shit while paying stupid amount of taxes (which just went up...yay).[/QUOTE] COOL then lets make it so illegal immigrants cant get those benefits rather than ignoring our terrible immigration policy find me statistics on how many immigrants steal SSNs and i'll pay attention to that point. and nobody cares that you work minimum wage

[QUOTE=MR-X;39397301]You think so? A lot of these "hard working people" get scholarships, free school, etc all the while being here illegally. On top of that they can get free medical care. They pay zero taxes besides sale tax. A lot of these poor immigrants steal SSN's so they can falsely obtain jobs, etc, etc. I can go on and on, not all of them are bad. But it is hardly the sob story your saying. I work a minimum wage job, have to pay bills, pay for school and all this other shit while paying stupid amount of taxes (which just went up...yay). Medical care for basic needs is retarded expensive, and soon to come if I don't get health insurance (which my jobs offers but it is 260 dollars a month without co-pay added in to it) i'll be fined. Not saying there needs to be reform, but it is a bit ridiculous how law abiding citizens who pay taxes get less and illegals get a lot of help just for the sake of being politically correct.[/QUOTE] #Little known facts: Fact 183 Did you know that when an illegal immigrant enters the United States of America, they are handed a suitcase with assorted legal papers and a small pager that when activated, sends a email directly to Obama? Obama personally replies to every single email, promising to follow the policies submitted by illegal immigrants exclusively and to send a free blank check for every email sent? Also noteworthy, is that each illegal immigrant is given a "Fuck America" shirt and a free flag that when burned, causes Obama to go to a veterans home to personally shit on their doorstep. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3rhQc666Sg[/media]

[QUOTE=MR-X;39397301]A lot of these "hard working people" get scholarships, free school, etc all the while being here illegally. On top of that they can get free medical care. They pay zero taxes besides sale tax. A lot of these poor immigrants steal SSN's so they can falsely obtain jobs, etc, etc. I can go on and on, not all of them are bad. But it is hardly the sob story your saying.[/QUOTE] I seriously doubt illegal immigrants get "free school" (unless they're children, in which case I seriously hope they are getting schooling regardless). Also, most people pay 0 net taxes, and most immigrants will be in the range of income where they would receive more money than they paid. By not being a proper citizen, they are actually [I]paying more taxes[/I]. Though I do believe they use illegitimate SSNs, I don't think they care or possible even know whose SSN they are using, and the SSNs may not even be valid. After all, if the majority of illegal immigrants were using SSNs that citizens are actively using, you'd think it'd be more of a problem. Kicking them out isn't worth it. Getting them legitimate citizenship is. [QUOTE]I work a minimum wage job, have to pay bills, pay for school and all this other shit while paying stupid amount of taxes (which just went up...yay). Medical care for basic needs is retarded expensive, and soon to come if I don't get health insurance (which my jobs offers but it is 260 dollars a month without co-pay added in to it) i'll be fined.[/QUOTE] If you work a minimum wage job, you aren't paying net taxes. The federal refund you get each year will completely pay any taxes from that year, and more. I don't know what State you are in, but states have even lower tax burdens in most cases. The medical penalty is non-existent for people below the poverty level, which a minimum wage should qualify for. Beyond that, it's capped at a % of income. It is the first step in fixing our healthcare, which will be better for everyone in the long term. None of this has to do with immigration. [QUOTE]Not saying there needs to be reform, but it is a bit ridiculous how law abiding citizens who pay taxes get less and illegals get a lot of help just for the sake of being politically correct.[/QUOTE] Citizens get far more than illegals do. You are wrong and foolish.

[QUOTE=An Axolotl;39395869]you are aware illegal immigrants can't vote, right?[/QUOTE]I should have used the sarc mark

Quick addition: Estimates of the cost of deportation is in the range of $12,500-$23,000 per person. A conservative estimate of the total cost to deport ~11,000,000 illegal immigrants is $132B. If that money were instead given to the poorest 40% of people in the US (including illegals, because why not), that would be ~$1000 per person. I have a feeling that the poorest chunk of America suddenly each having $1000 more to spend on things would be a lot more helpful than kicking 11,000,000 people out.

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;39397041]gee why don't those filthy job-stealing immigrants just come in legally??? [t]http://reason.com/assets/db/07cf533ddb1d06350cf1ddb5942ef5ad.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] While this chart is a good reason why the immigration process is pretty bullshit, having a green card pretty much makes you a legal immigrant for all intents and purposes, even though the chart implies that it takes up to 20 years to become legal (citizenship is simply a permanent status that you as an individual are recognized as an offical citizen of the US without any card-carrying needed or anything like that). Having a green-card is basically temporary citizenship, that you use if you are not technically a citizen (but use and want all the citizen benefits), and after a long while they go, "Okay, you're pretty much legit seeing as you've been here for so long and haven't caused a bunch of crimes". Yes I am sure there are annoying complications involved with green card users that citizens don't have to deal with but by and large in everyday life they are pretty much the same as a citizen.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;39395136]ye but who cares about illegal immigrants why is it even an issue. why go out of your way to send someone away from the country just because they entered "illegally"[/QUOTE] Because it's completely unfair to the people who spent the time and money to go through the proper legal channels to immigrate, which normally takes [I]years[/I] to do so On that note, the current system of processing immigrants into the US is in serious need of reform. it's overcomplicated, exclusive and needs to be simplified. It's part of the reason we have such a problem with illegal immigrants in the first place. We should give illegals the option to become registered citizens with ~some~ temporary penalty for entering the country illegally and leave it at that.

[QUOTE=Furioso;39398146]Because it's completely unfair to the people who spent the time and money to go through the proper legal channels to immigrate, which normally takes [I]years[/I] to do so On that note, the current system of processing immigrants into the US is in serious need of reform. it's overcomplicated, exclusive and needs to be simplified. It's part of the reason we have such a problem with illegal immigrants in the first place. We should give illegals the option to become registered citizens with ~some~ temporary penalty for entering the country illegally and leave it at that.[/QUOTE] In that sort of situation it appears unfair yes, but I think the argument (and you may be making it as well) is that it shouldn't take years to do in the first place.

I think it's pretty fair to say most people seek reform but don't support illegals slipping by

[QUOTE=Furioso;39398146]Because it's completely unfair to the people who spent the time and money to go through the proper legal channels to immigrate, which normally takes [I]years[/I] to do so On that note, the current system of processing immigrants into the US is in serious need of reform. it's overcomplicated, exclusive and needs to be simplified. It's part of the reason we have such a problem with illegal immigrants in the first place. We should give illegals the option to become registered citizens with ~some~ temporary penalty for entering the country illegally and leave it at that.[/QUOTE] You are right about it being unfair, which is part of the reason why the citizenship process should be practically instant.

[quote]Camber Lybbert thought it was a mistake when her bank told her that her daughter's Social Security number, issued by the U.S. government, was on their files for two credit cards and two auto loans, with an outstanding balance of more than $25,000. Her daughter is 3 years old. [url]www.nytimes.com/2006/09/04/world/americas/04iht-id.2688618.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0[/url] [/quote] [quote]In 2011, employment-related fraud accounted for 8 percent of identity theft complaints but the numbers were higher in states with large illegal alien populations - 25 percent in Arizona, 15 percent in Texas, 16 percent in New Mexico, 12 percent in California. [url]https://www.numbersusa.com/content/news/october-23-2012/use-total-identity-theft-growing-among-illegal-aliens.html[/url] [/quote] [quote]Nearly 50 names were connected to his SSN. [url]http://redtape.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/11/08/8687299-whats-it-like-to-share-your-ssn-with-50-people-follow-a-victims-struggle?lite[/url] [/quote] [quote] An illegal alien just completed 12 surgeries and a record 374-day stay in a Fresno hospital. For him, it was "free" health care. But for taxpayers, the hospital and patients who ultimately pay, it's another big bill. [url]http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/010612-597011-illegal-immigrants-milk-the-us-health-care-system.htm#ixzz2JLFRakx4[/url] [/quote] [quote] . In Los Angeles County alone, illegal immigrants cost taxpayers nearly $440 million in health services annually and a whopping $1.1 billion statewide. [url]http://www.examiner.com/article/illegal-alien-relax-you-re-covered[/url] [/quote] [quote] According to IHSC Assistant Director, Dr. Jon Krohmer, his agency has streamlined the entire medical process for detainees and as an example of this effort, his staff now typically reviews and approves even specialized treatment within 24 hours. In addition to paying for off-site and emergency care, the agency also provides detainees with medical consultations and comprehensive case management. [url]http://www.examiner.com/article/deportable-illegal-aliens-now-getting-free-dental-care[/url] [/quote] [quote] Illegal immigrants entering Texas' higher education system are direct beneficiaries of a 1982 Supreme Court decision, Plyler vs. Doe. Parents in Tyler sued after the state began charging tuition for illegal immigrant children. The court ruled that Texas and the rest of the country must educate illegal immigrant children free of charge in public schools. [url]http://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/headlines/20100314-Number-of-illegal-immigrants-getting-in-9925.ece[/url] [/quote] [quote]This November, voters in the eastern U.S. state of Maryland will decide whether to uphold a state law giving some undocumented immigrants tuition breaks at state-run universities and community colleges. Maryland could become the 12th state in the nation to offer undocumented immigrants lower tuition for higher education. [url]http://www.voanews.com/content/illegal-immigrants-offered-lower-tuition-for-higher-education/1518376.html[/url] [/quote] You ask, there is a few. Call it what you want, I don't like it. I think it is nonsense, I got to foot the bill for these people when I can't even get services like they do. It is worse in some areas and not so much in others. I live in a state were illegal immigrants are a big issues, and all the big crimes that come with being a border state. i believe there needs to be reform so people an get in easier and legally. There needs to be a lot of reform, education, health care..etc.

Legal immigration is practically impossible for your average working class Latino, but the people who are against illegal immigration are also against immigration reform. So saying Latinos should immigrated legally is one of two things: ignorance/uninformed/misinformed or [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics#United_States"]dog whistle racism[/URL]. Also most illegal immigrants do pay taxes, no not just sales taxes, the rest of them too.

[QUOTE=The Baconator;39398617]the people who are against illegal immigration are also against immigration reform.[/QUOTE] I'm against illegal immigration and for immigration reform.

[QUOTE=The Baconator;39398617]Legal immigration is practically impossible for your average working class Latino, but the people who are against illegal immigration are also against immigration reform. So saying Latinos should immigrated legally is one of two things: ignorance/uninformed/misinformed or [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics#United_States"]dog whistle racism[/URL]. Also most illegal immigrants do pay taxes, no not just sales taxes, the rest of them too.[/QUOTE] Telling me that legal immigration is "practically impossible" then saying everyone who is against illegal immigration is a racist- is not the most valid argument ive heard. But now on to the rest of the story- You say that most illegal immigrants pay federal, state, local, ss, school taxes. Now given that you can only pay those if you file your taxes with a ssn (or the visa equiv)- my question is this- How are they paying these taxes again? Please explain in a way that doesnt lead me to believe theyre stealing social security numbers as well.

[QUOTE=MR-X;39398487]You ask, there is a few. Call it what you want, I don't like it. I think it is nonsense, I got to foot the bill for these people when I can't even get services like they do. It is worse in some areas and not so much in others. I live in a state were illegal immigrants are a big issues, and all the big crimes that come with being a border state. i believe there needs to be reform so people an get in easier and legally. There needs to be a lot of reform, education, health care..etc.[/QUOTE] i ask for statistics to indicate this is a widespread issue, not a handful of articles about bad people in a community of roughly 12 million

[QUOTE=Eltro102;39395302]because they have broken the law and might do it again, if they have a real need to emigrate into your country they can fill out the paperwork and do it legally but they have chosen not to[/QUOTE] Ever stop to think that they may very well be too poor to do so? It costs quite a bit to immigrate legally, after all.

[QUOTE=H8Entitlement;39398746]Telling me that legal immigration is "practically impossible" then saying everyone who is against illegal immigration is a racist- is not the most valid argument ive heard. But now on to the rest of the story- You say that most illegal immigrants pay federal, state, local, ss, school taxes. Now given that you can only pay those if you file your taxes with a ssn (or the visa equiv)- my question is this- How are they paying these taxes again? Please explain in a way that doesnt lead me to believe theyre stealing social security numbers as well.[/QUOTE] The SSN doesn't have to be valid to pay taxes, it just doesn't get associated with the right person (or any person at all). It's also possible that, while illegitimately obtained, the SSN they use it their own. Possibly they use a tax id for themselves that would no longer be valid (expired visa/green card). The IRS is prohibited from trading information with the rest of the government, except as warranted (the IRS can't use information they obtain to begin non-tax investigations). Even if the SSN is completely invalid, all they could do is go for tax-related crimes, but the individual is probably [I]over paying[/I] taxes, and not worth the time.

[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;39394873]I get what they're doing from an economic standpoint. But come the fuck on. It shouldn't matter. [editline]28th January 2013[/editline] The GLORIES OF A SUPER MAJORITY STATE GOVERNMENT AND NO GRIDLOCK.[/QUOTE] I'm fine with it, as long as it excludes ER treatment

all in all, making illegal immigrants legal, I'm sorry, but, that sounds completely retarded. If anyone actually believes we should allow people to just come in without first signing in, you are insane. (not saying anyone thinks this!) the steps to legal immigration are obviously bullshit and need [B]serious [/B]simplification and rework to allow [I]more [/I]people in. This way, illegal immigrants don't cost us so much damn money because we're dicks about out. [QUOTE=Thy Reaper;39397667]Quick addition: Estimates of the cost of deportation is in the range of $12,500-$23,000 per person. A conservative estimate of the total cost to deport ~11,000,000 illegal immigrants is $132B. If that money were instead given to the poorest 40% of people in the US (including illegals, because why not), that would be ~$1000 per person. I have a feeling that the poorest chunk of America suddenly each having $1000 more to spend on things would be a lot more helpful than kicking 11,000,000 people out.[/QUOTE] One of the issues is that the population would find itself pretty crowded. We need population control, but obviously we can't just kill people or sterilize them like China. 1000$ per person a year isn't nearly enough to support those people. Unless I misread?

H[QUOTE=Neo Kabuto;39398674]I'm against illegal immigration and for immigration reform.[/QUOTE] Except you're not a lawmaker or an affluent wealthy celebrity, which are the only people who can significant influence or change in immigration policy

[QUOTE=J!NX;39399868]all in all, making illegal immigrants legal, I'm sorry, but, that sounds completely retarded. If anyone actually believes we should allow people to just come in without first signing in, you are insane. (not saying anyone thinks this!) the steps to legal immigration are obviously bullshit and need [B]serious [/B]simplification and rework to allow [I]more [/I]people in. This way, illegal immigrants don't cost us so much damn money because we're dicks about out. One of the issues is that the population would find itself pretty crowded. We need population control, but obviously we can't just kill people or sterilize them like China. 1000$ per person a year isn't nearly enough to support those people. Unless I misread?[/QUOTE] Why shouldn't all immigrants be legal? One of the possible solutions is to allow U.S. businesses to actively seek out and hire foreign workers for temporary work and allow them to get citizenship. This would end up helping the economy and actually raise the overall household income in the U.S. Overpopulation isn't going to be a thing anywhere in the world soon enough as more nations become post-industrial and end up having stable/shrinking populations.

[QUOTE=J!NX;39399868]One of the issues is that the population would find itself pretty crowded. We need population control, but obviously we can't just kill people or sterilize them like China. 1000$ per person a year isn't nearly enough to support those people. Unless I misread?[/QUOTE] It's not about supporting those people, it's just an indication that, instead of spending $132B to deport people, we could spend $132B to help out the poorest 40% of the population. I use 40% as I recall that aligns closely with poverty levels, but that may have changed. Also, there are an estimated 11,000,000 illegal immigrants in the country, or about 3% of the population. We are not getting crowded in the US, nor do we need population control. In fact, without immigration, our population would be shrinking (which is very bad). Just as a comparison, China has a population density about 4x the United States. This is very rough, since the area contains deserts and Alaska, but we aren't anywhere close to China's issues. Even then, China's issues are, in part, caused by their outdated economy that is only recently starting to match the modern economies of Europe and the US.