Happy Birthday: The Occupy Movement One Year Later
147 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Kopimi;37692577]if they did society wouldn't have taxed it..[/QUOTE]
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax"]What?[/url]
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;37692459]If a politician runs on a campaign of torturing baby seals it doesn't matter if they get more campaign money than the opposition, people aren't going to vote for them.[/quote]
you'd be surprised
[quote]If a corporation offers fried endangered animal faces on the market, and people buy them, there isn't shit you can do unless it's illegal. You can't vote against something you weren't going to buy to begin with.[/quote]
but if people are buying them then they clearly want to eat them, so if there was a vote then they would vote in favor of continued cute-seal-eating????
[quote]Here's the different: "MANY" corporations have bowed to public pressure. ALL politicians bow to public pressure, and the ones that don't don't get any power.[/quote]
no, they don't, otherwise unpopular policies would never be enacted in "democratic" governments
[quote]If a company will save more money than they'd lose from customers by doing something fucking terrible, or will offer something other companies can't by doing something terrible, it DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER. If there's no law against it, they will do it, and there's not a damn thing you can do to stop them. You can't vote against them.[/quote]
if not enough people stop buying from them in order to make in unprofitable, then it's likely that not enough people would vote in favor of banning the practice.
[quote]Alright, let's say laws don't exist, and there is a thriving market on Child Pornography. How the fuck do you just "go to a competitor" then?[/QUOTE]
imposing costs on pedophiles by publicly shaming them, encouraging them to fap to drawn loli
[editline]16th September 2012[/editline]
sorry i didn't reply, i genuinely didn't see your post
also i'm not in favor of anarchocapitalism i don't know where you got that impression
I take comfort in the fact that Charlie Brooker would hate you dainbramage.
[QUOTE=Noble;37692679][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax"]What?[/url][/QUOTE]
what is your point?
capital gains tax is a tax on profit earned from the trade. that profit is in dollars. dollars are a currency printed, regulated and maintained by the US govt
if they cashed out their trades in bottlecaps they would have gotten away with it tax free
as a new yorker i did not see any of these occupy camps ever
seriously
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;37692700]I take comfort in the fact that Charlie Brooker would hate you dainbramage.[/QUOTE]
<3
[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;37692459]If a politician runs on a campaign of torturing baby seals it doesn't matter if they get more campaign money than the opposition, people aren't going to vote for them.
If a corporation offers fried endangered animal faces on the market, and people buy them, there isn't shit you can do unless it's illegal. You can't vote against something you weren't going to buy to begin with.[/quote]
What if a politician runs on a campaign of torturing baby seals, and the majority of his constituents approve of it and vote for him anyway?
Here's the different: "MANY" corporations have bowed to public pressure. ALL politicians bow to public pressure, and the ones that don't don't get any power. If a company will save more money than they'd lose from customers by doing something fucking terrible, or will offer something other companies can't by doing something terrible, it DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER. If there's no law against it, they will do it, and there's not a damn thing you can do to stop them. You can't vote against them.[/quote]
They can't do it if they are using coercive force against anyone else. Dispute resolution organizations and private police would enforce individuals' private property rights. This wouldn't be any more of an issue than it is today, and firms wouldn't be able to manipulate the government for their own benefit, like they can and do today.
[quote]Alright, let's say laws don't exist, and there is a thriving market on Child Pornography. How the fuck do you just "go to a competitor" then?[/QUOTE]
Why would there be a thriving market on child pornography? No one is arguing that it's fair to initiate force against anyone, especially children, by forcing them to participate in something they don't want to do. They would be protected from abuse just as much as they are today.
[QUOTE=Noble;37692804]Why would there be a thriving market on child pornography? No one is arguing that it's fair to initiate force against anyone, especially children, by forcing them to participate in something they don't want to do. They would be protected from abuse just as much as they are today.[/QUOTE]
not only that, but the current barriers to entry with CP ensure that the people who risk it anyway are self-selected to be the most morally bankrupt. remove the barriers to entry and you'll find that shockingly, the majority of people who would fap to CP are otherwise morally ordinary people. it's nonobvious that a "defect" (scarequotes intentional) in whatever brain system governs sexual attraction would propagate all the way to the higher systems of morality. most would go for "fair trade" CP which was produced ethically, such as drawn or CGI.
[QUOTE=Noble;37692804]What if a politician runs on a campaign of torturing baby seals, and the majority of his constituents approve of it and vote for him anyway?
[/QUOTE]
Then he'll be elected into office and push for legislation of torturing baby seals and that wouldn't be voted on and even if it was it'd be challenged to the point where it becomes moot.
Really you couldn't figure this out yourself?
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;37692877]Then he'll be elected into office and push for legislation of torturing baby seals and that wouldn't be voted on and even if it was it'd be challenged to the point where it becomes moot.
Really you couldn't figure this out yourself?[/QUOTE]
but people voted him in on that platform
[QUOTE=Kopimi;37692711]what is your point?
capital gains tax is a tax on profit earned from the trade. that profit is in dollars. dollars are a currency printed, regulated and maintained by the US govt
if they cashed out their trades in bottlecaps they would have gotten away with it tax free[/QUOTE]
Not really sure that I'm following the argument here or the relevance of the fact that the US government has a monopoly on the currency.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37692892]but people voted him in on that platform[/QUOTE]
Let's make this perfectly abundantly fucking clear, this guy doesn't exist nor would he ever exist.
And yeah, he was voted in that platform, welcome to a free society, it sucks, there are checks and balances though.
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;37692915]Let's make this perfectly abundantly fucking clear, this guy doesn't exist nor would he ever exist.[/quote]
ok
[quote]And yeah, he was voted in that platform, welcome to a free society, it sucks, there are checks and balances though.[/QUOTE]
so a free society means you can vote in someone on the pretext of X, but X won't necessarily be enacted, and this is seen as a good and just thing
insanity, got it.
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;37692877]Then he'll be elected into office and push for legislation of torturing baby seals and that wouldn't be voted on and even if it was it'd be challenged to the point where it becomes moot.
Really you couldn't figure this out yourself?[/QUOTE]
Why wouldn't it be voted on? Perhaps the majority of people voted in politicians who sympathized with these views.
[QUOTE=Noble;37692982]Why wouldn't it be voted on? Perhaps the majority of people voted in politicians who sympathized with these views.[/QUOTE]
Writing in laws work in accordance to the already written law.
The occupy movement did little more than give people an excuse for their failure to advance in the workforce. By demonizing the people that ran the companies that gave them jobs, it gave them someone to turn their depression into anger at.
It shocks me how people still deny the purpose of Occupy.
Occupy was meant to clearly demonstrate the lack of income inequality in this country compared to other Western Nations.
The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer. Raising awareness of that fact was the objective of Occupy.
You do not have to agree with their methods, or many of the splinter anti capitalist groups that came out of it, but you have to admit that their purpose was true, and someone successful.
[editline]16th September 2012[/editline]
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/Gini_since_WWII.svg/1000px-Gini_since_WWII.svg.png[/img]
[editline]16th September 2012[/editline]
Oh and, the recession in 2008 made it even worse.
[QUOTE=Ridge;37695609]The occupy movement did little more than give people an excuse for their failure to advance in the workforce. By demonizing the people that ran the companies that gave them jobs, it gave them someone to turn their depression into anger at.[/QUOTE]
Or, you know, they were, and please pay attention as I know you have absolutely no fucking idea about OWS, they're angry at the organisation, wall street, that ruined the economy they're in. Oh but it must be a bunch of hippies who are mad that they can't advances in their jobs. Corporations are innocent!!!! They're people too.
God bless america
[editline]17th September 2012[/editline]
Ridge how many dumb posts must you make before you realise you shouldn't post anymore?
[QUOTE=Ridge;37695609]The occupy movement did little more than give people an excuse for their failure to advance in the workforce. By demonizing the people that ran the companies that gave them jobs, it gave them someone to turn their depression into anger at.[/QUOTE]
how much of the workforce [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_(Animal_Farm)]has to be turned into glue at the glue factory[/url] before everyone gets a bit fed up
instead of whining about not having money and being the 99 percent, why didnt those idiots just TRY to make money?
[QUOTE=ajrhug;37696689]instead of whining about not having money and being the 99 percent, why didnt those idiots just TRY to make money?[/QUOTE]
What is with you people and commenting on things you clearly don't understand nor took the effort or care to spend 5 seconds of looking it up to correct your ignorant assertions?
[QUOTE=MarstunoM;37688966]Thousands of people in the streets, mostly the poor and unemployed; the media demonized it, law enforcement suppressed it (violently), and the politicians remained largely unswayed. These are not things that you can dispute, these are facts. Whether you like Occupy or not, it was definitely eye opening for those of us who were paying attention.[/QUOTE]
People are quick to forget the violence from the police forces. The violent reaction towards the college students here in California and in other locations; and the fact that the Occupy Movement has just been demolished with an almost military-esque response is not at all reassuring.
[QUOTE=ajrhug;37696689]instead of whining about not having money and being the 99 percent, why didnt those idiots just TRY to make money?[/QUOTE]
Go back to your TV and try not to post again on things you know nothing about sir
[QUOTE=Strider*;37688972]Don't take my word for it, take a Nobel Prize winning economist's.[/QUOTE]
Milton Friedman was a knob
[editline]16th September 2012[/editline]
Capitalism works on greed my ass
I really want to make an opinion on this, but I don't know anything at all about how politics and economics fully work, other than what I picked up an high school, and that would never be enough to give a constructed opinion.
If I had to say something though, I'd say I actually agree with what Kopimi and anyone else who isn't DainBramageStudios. Occupy did do something, they brought attention to the problem of Rich people getting richer and poor people poorer. Their words have been heard by many people on the planet. They weren't just hippies or anarchist or whoever joined just to turn OWS to their personal views, they were mostly people who saw something wrong with our American society and want other people in the country and in the rest of the world to hear it.
I'm going to get a bit personal now.
There are alot of times where I stop playing games and surfing the internet, and think about my future. Will I be able to afford going to a 4 year art college? Would I ever be able to pay my debts after wards? Can I find a decent Job now and after that 4 year college? If I turn my back away from watching American politics because I didn't want to hear it anymore, would a bad president be elected into office because I didn't pay attention? Would it screw me over because someone like Mitt Romney would be voted into office? Could I be openly Bisexual to my family? Would my family be comfortable marrying a man instead of a woman? Should I adopt a child to carry on my namesake once I'm dead?
I actually get scared thinking about these things, so scared I can't help but look toward the majority opinion and just go off that, or whatever assumption I find better.
I'm scared about money, where I'll live in a few years, what job I get, if it goes well, family, friends, love.
Sometimes I think about moving to Canada and ignoring everything just to be comfortable. But that would be like making myself permanently deaf and blind. I would actually rather stay here and accept the fact that I'm anxious about all these things. Even though it feels right now like I'm about to take on the tasks of Hercules, I'm still optimistic that things would, eventually, turn out for the better.
I'm sorry if I got off topic, but just reading this thread and Kopimi's posts, I just felt I had to post this.
[QUOTE=Ridge;37695609]The occupy movement did little more than give people an excuse for their failure to advance in the workforce. By demonizing the people that ran the companies that gave them jobs, it gave them someone to turn their depression into anger at.[/QUOTE]
Except that's not what it was at all.
[QUOTE=ajrhug;37696689]instead of whining about not having money and being the 99 percent, why didnt those idiots just TRY to make money?[/QUOTE]
words of someone that has never worked
[QUOTE=person11;37695687]It shocks me how people still deny the purpose of Occupy.
Occupy was meant to clearly demonstrate the lack of income inequality in this country compared to other Western Nations.
The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer. Raising awareness of that fact was the objective of Occupy.
You do not have to agree with their methods, or many of the splinter anti capitalist groups that came out of it, but you have to admit that their purpose was true, and someone successful.
[editline]16th September 2012[/editline]
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/Gini_since_WWII.svg/1000px-Gini_since_WWII.svg.png[/img]
[editline]16th September 2012[/editline]
Oh and, the recession in 2008 made it even worse.[/QUOTE]
So uh, is there a graph for [I]ALL[/I] countries considered [I]"first world"[/I] grade?
Preferably from a valid and unbiased source.
How can GINI be biased?
It is a mathematical calculation based on income shares and distribution.
And it was the best I could do on such short notice. I will look out for a better chart that shows only 1st world countries and that goes up to 2012.
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