• NUS tells LGBT societies to abolish gay men’s reps because ‘they don’t face oppression’
    148 replies, posted
you know shits fucked up when infighting happens between literally oppressed groups of people and it becomes a pissing match of who is more oppressed and the losers 'oppressed' the least get oppressed by the oppressed. Did i use that word enough in one sentence to blend in with tumblr?
[QUOTE=Alrækinn;49986083]This is insane Now watch someone here seriously defend it[/QUOTE] Okay, don't get me wrong, I think this is shitty but I'll offer an alternative perspective on this. What you need to keep in mind is that the article states: [quote] because they “don’t face oppression” in the LGBT community.[/quote] Take note how it says 'in the LGBT community', not in general society which can and does treat gay men really shittily. Abolishing representatives is fucking stupid and way overboard though. I've mentioned once or twice before on Facepunch that I'm bisexual and I do personally feel like the G part tends to dominate. When this gets brought up, I always think of something Stephen Colbert said. It was something along the lines of 'LGBT? You mean Lesbian, Gay, Bacon and Tomato?'. There are some people in this thread that mention oppression olympics/pissing contests and how we shouldn't make things about who has it worse. This is true! However we also shouldn't use it disregard poor/harmful behavior within the LGBT community, either. Both need to be addressed and both are very important.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;49986329]Except that's a backronym because [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender"]it's actually derived from the Latin.[/URL] my revenge against the_killer24 proceeds smoothly [sp]<33[/sp][/QUOTE] Ok then, regardless I still stand by it being a derogatory term at this point.
This is what I hate about the NUS. Universities are [B]way[/B] too happy but put up with their insane bullshit and no-one mainstream ever questions their legitimacy or right to exist. After all why do students need a Union? Who can possibly claim to speak for all students?
[QUOTE=NiandraLades;49986361]Take note how it says 'in the LGBT community', not in general society which can and does treat gay men really shittily[/QUOTE] If that is indeed what they mean... well, how is that at all relevant to no-platforming gay men (which seems like oppression from within the LGBT community to me) or anything for that matter?
What a joke.
[QUOTE=RobL;49986420]If that is indeed what they mean... well, how is that at all relevant to no-platforming gay men (which seems like oppression from within the LGBT community to me) or anything for that matter?[/QUOTE] I guess the incentive is more opportunities for those who may have been previously overshadowed? Like trans people, etc But I mean, you can still do that without going overboard and saying that gay men "do not need a reserved place on society committees.” though [editline]22nd March 2016[/editline] Basically, I don't agree with them but I kinda understand where they're coming from and think a different approach that's less extreme would be a better way to go
Thirty years ago if you were a homosexual you'd be considered to have a mental illness. Today you are now a bulwark of oppression.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;49986042]is this satire[/QUOTE] Uh, how can this be satire? cis means you identify as the sex you were born with. It's not some special "non-hetero normative" status. cis lesbian women exist too. [editline]22nd March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=mooman1080;49986364]Ok then, regardless I still stand by it being a derogatory term at this point.[/QUOTE] It's not a derogatory term, you're getting as offended over nothing as the people you claim get offended so much. It's hilarious because people like you say "they're just words" but then you take an actual, legitimate term that's not hateful in anyway and turn it into "oh no I'm being oppressed by words :(". It's the term for non-trans. The literal, dictionary definition term. It's not comparable to "Faggot" which is a slang word for a gay man and is derogatory, it's not comparable to "nigger" which is used to put down and shame black people purely in itself because it's derogatory, It's a dictionary definition term used in academics, LGBT organizations in understanding transgender issues, and various other institutes. Quit learning your gender theory from gamergate and snippets from TumblrInAction of "Crazy feminists!" and maybe you'll actually understand something.
I dunno, I think I'd feel pretty oppressed if the student groups that were supposed to support me told me that the violence I faced daily didn't matter because I wasn't oppressed and had privilege.
"we're going to opress you because you're not oppressed"
Woah. The fuck? Whackjobs.
[QUOTE=RobL;49986037][url]http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/03/22/nus-tells-lgbt-societies-to-abolish-gay-mens-reps-because-they-dont-face-oppression[/url] They also refuse to condemn ISIS because it would be "Islamophobic" (i.e. they're unprincipled spineless twonks). Horseshoe theory in action?[/QUOTE] That's not even fucking true. Gay men face far more bigotry than bi and lesbian women, bisexual men face the most discrimination, second only to trans, of course. [url]http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/02/20/among-lgbt-americans-bisexuals-stand-out-when-it-comes-to-identity-acceptance/[/url]
[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;49986836]That's not even fucking true. Gay men face far more bigotry than bi and lesbian women, bisexual men face the most discrimination, second only to trans, of course. [url]http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/02/20/among-lgbt-americans-bisexuals-stand-out-when-it-comes-to-identity-acceptance/[/url][/QUOTE] Considering both the gay and straight opinion of bisexuality is "lol just admit you're gay you coward", yeah...
[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;49986836]That's not even fucking true. Gay men face far more bigotry than bi and lesbian women, bisexual men face the most discrimination, second only to trans, of course. [url]http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/02/20/among-lgbt-americans-bisexuals-stand-out-when-it-comes-to-identity-acceptance/[/url][/QUOTE] Yeah, I can definitely see this from general attitudes of people, mostly men. I see people fetishize lesbians a lot (lesbian is one of the more popular search terms on porn sites) so lesbians tend to get more of a pass and bisexual women are seen as desirable due to still being willing to date a guy, but uphold the lesbian fetish. Meanwhile, gay men are seen as emasculating and face this kind of attitude of "not being a real man", especially if they "act" gay. Bisexual man receive shit from both the LGBT community and general society, they're seen as "faggots" by society and something along the lines of "not real" by gay men. Trans people I don't even need to get into on how much shit they get.
ive been at my uni for 4 years now and not once have I heard of anyone mention any benefit for the NUS existing other than getting free burgers at mcdonalds with the NUS card
[QUOTE=GarbageCan;49986653] It's not a derogatory term, you're getting as offended over nothing as the people you claim get offended so much. It's hilarious because people like you say "they're just words" but then you take an actual, legitimate term that's not hateful in anyway and turn it into "oh no I'm being oppressed by words :(". It's the term for non-trans. The literal, dictionary definition term. It's not comparable to "Faggot" which is a slang word for a gay man and is derogatory, it's not comparable to "nigger" which is used to put down and shame black people purely in itself because it's derogatory, It's a dictionary definition term used in academics, LGBT organizations in understanding transgender issues, and various other institutes. Quit learning your gender theory from gamergate and snippets from TumblrInAction of "Crazy feminists!" and maybe you'll actually understand something.[/QUOTE] An entire freakout paragraph and a gamergate boogeyman name drop. Nice. Also slave owners did not use words such as nigger primarily as a put down, that was the just the word they used for black people back then, it was considered the social norm, as was them not being considered people the social norm. For all intensive purposes it can argued to be similar, but clearly it's a different situation. Also anything can have a clear definition and still be used in derogatory way, regardless if it's original meaning is perfectly acceptable words can still change in the ways they are used, my opinion is a simple one. In large I find cis is used in a derogatory way and as such I consider it a derogatory word and think it should be treated as such. If you disagree fine that's fine.
student unions are a fucking joke
The only reason I care for the student union is for the building itself so I can get drunk
Whenever a survey hits my inbox about my 'student union experience' I always trash how they don't do anything for regular students but instead constantly rant about oppression. My students union went from chill 20 years ago (according to my cousin) to being total shit today in my experience. The beer isn't even cheap because the bastards host concerts open to the public to subsidize their social justice work...
[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;49987166]ive been at my uni for 4 years now and not once have I heard of anyone mention any benefit for the NUS existing other than getting free burgers at mcdonalds with the NUS card[/QUOTE] You can just use your normal student ID, so the NUS card is completely useless.
[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;49987166]ive been at my uni for 4 years now and not once have I heard of anyone mention any benefit for the NUS existing other than getting free burgers at mcdonalds with the NUS card[/QUOTE] Hey you also get free McFlurrys!
[quote=NUS Document]Misogyny, transphobia, racism and biphobia are often present in LGBT+ societies. This is unfortunately more likely to occur when the society is dominated by white cis gay men.[/quote] How does removing the representatives for gay men help that at all? Surely you need those representatives to work with to tackle those problems
Wait... so, correct me if I'm wrong, but are they saying that they aren't allowed to be represented in the NUS LGBT because... people in the NUS LGBT don't... oppress them enough...?
Student politics, ladies and gentlemen. People involved in it should have a black mark against their names for the rest of their lives.
so i am fairly familiar with the NUS and the internal working of a students union and i want to try explain this for folk not really familiar with this. what they're saying is that inside lgbt only representation groups, there shouldn't be a specific rep for cis gay men as inside the gay community as externally, they tend to dominate the narrative of mainstream lgbt politics and discussion, despite many contributions from people of colour and trans folk. it's essentially about giving a leg up for those getting treated a bit worse in lgbt communities (due to their colour or being bi or transphobia) so their voice is, in those circles, heard a little more. it's not about removing silencing lgbt men in the wider community or whatever, it's a few lines from a motion that was passed democratically by delegates at the lgbt conference which asks white cis men to stop dominating the narrative around queer spaces. this is probs a bit of a ramble since i'm tired but that's what i believe the motion to be about and the motivations behind it. [editline]23rd March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=rampageturke 2;49987166]ive been at my uni for 4 years now and not once have I heard of anyone mention any benefit for the NUS existing other than getting free burgers at mcdonalds with the NUS card[/QUOTE] Comes down to trade. NUS Services provide a fucking ton of bulk buying power which students unions wouldn't have themselves. This means they can sell diet coke for a cheaper price per unit, meaning the union makes more money which can be reinvested inside the university. [editline]23rd March 2016[/editline] They've also got the whole democracy thing and the NUS is a pretty successful lobbying organisation - the weight behind them uniting college and students unions in Scotland just stopped a Glaswegian student being deported because of a paperwork error. [editline]23rd March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=The mouse;49986407]This is what I hate about the NUS. Universities are [B]way[/B] too happy but put up with their insane bullshit and no-one mainstream ever questions their legitimacy or right to exist. After all why do students need a Union? Who can possibly claim to speak for all students?[/QUOTE] because your union will have affiliated to it at some point and the student body decided the benefits outweighed the cons
'reinvested' in social justice campaigns noone gives a fuck about or wants
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;49991529]'reinvested' in social justice campaigns noone gives a fuck about or wants[/QUOTE] or in counselling services, or places that give out free condoms and sanitary products, or the crumbling buildings from the 60s, or to subsidise cheap drink, or a club night that loses money every week but students love so they keep going, or to allow them to maintain high numbers of student staff and offer jobs in areas that aren't typically accessible like marketing or events management. but aye, it's a couple of signs about gender neutral toilets that are worth kicking off about
Do these people have nothing better to do? Surely their efforts would be better placed in places that haven't got the same level of equality we do, like Africa and the Middle East and Asia?
Yeah, as someone who regularly did engage with NUS LGBT+, that motion of theirs really irked me. I can *sort* of understand what they mean, but my argument to that would be that you can easily resolve that by having reserved spaces for other demographics within the LGBT+ umbrella, and encourage diversity within society committees. You shouldn't be discouraging the lack of representation at all, especially as there are some areas that gay men *do* face oppression in in relation to their gender identity and sexuality that are exclusive.
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