• Crimea votes on secession
    108 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;44253113]"The British did something somewhat similar 200 years ago so Russia can do it now"[/QUOTE] So only the UK and the US are allowed to invade countries? Sounds like anglo-saxon privilege to me.
[QUOTE=DestinyDstryr;44253156]So only the UK and the US are allowed to invade countries? Sounds like anglo-saxon privilege to me.[/QUOTE] Again, this is a childish argument that kids on the playground use. We're talking about geopolitics and war here
Invertebrate West! I love how they all make empty promises for Ukraine.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;44253182]Again, this is a childish argument that kids on the playground use. We're talking about geopolitics and war here[/QUOTE] No you're talking about denying other countries the ability to take action and only allowing the privileged in the anglo-sphere to police the world and invade whoever they like.
This whole clusterfuck could have been avoided had the protests weren't hijacked by far-right nationalists who didn't devolve the thing into blatant rioting and a pathetic attempt at a power-grab. Not only did Ukraine's economy collapse, it is also now as a result dragging Russia and consequently, the rest of the world down with it.
[QUOTE=DestinyDstryr;44253207]No you're talking about denying other countries the ability to take action and only allowing the privileged in the anglo-sphere to police the world and invade whoever they like.[/QUOTE] Russia can invade whoever they like too, nobody did anything about Chechnya or Abkhasia and nobody is doing anything about Crimea
[QUOTE=>VLN<;44250586]They don't call it the United Nothing for, well, nothing.[/QUOTE] Why can't they be united without a one-country veto though? One having the power of fucking with everybody else isn't exactly the definition of an Union.
[QUOTE=TheNerdPest14;44251239]"I still like Ike" I like old people... Anyways, you know what this whole situation reminds me of; this one country in a certain game, the game being ArmA 2, the country Chernarus... [video=youtube;wQrUFdjVw1A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQrUFdjVw1A[/video][/QUOTE] And if the CDF was OPFOR in that game it might as well stand for Crimean Defence Forces. Imma reinstall some mods and Spetsnaz rly hard.
[QUOTE=Melnek;44253232]This whole clusterfuck could have been avoided had the protests weren't hijacked by far-right nationalists who didn't devolve the thing into blatant rioting and a pathetic attempt at a power-grab. Not only did Ukraine's economy collapse, it is also now as a result dragging Russia and consequently, the rest of the world down with it.[/QUOTE] what the fuck are you talking about the far right had very little to do with what happened in kyiv, yanuk signed an agreement but then at the same time he was preparing to escape the country so you're saying that instead of forming a new government after the head of the old one escaped they should have just left an empty power vacuum ripe for some neonazi fucks to take power??? the new government hasn't done anything remotely close to far-right, some members of the Rada wanted to propose a bill that would remove Russian as an official language, but that was rejected and never happened the only reason the economy is fucked up in ukraine is because of the blatant corruption and abuse of the countries resources that has thrived under Yanuk and all those before him and also because of Russia boycotting Ukrainian products
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;44253182]Again, this is a childish argument that kids on the playground use. We're talking about geopolitics and war here[/QUOTE] It isn't a childish argument because it's actually based on reality. The world should never be under a single, monotonous monopoly consisting of a single bloc of nations with the same ideals. No matter how just those ideals might be. There must always be a bloc of nations with somewhat differing ideals that should balance world politics as to not permit one bloc or the other to have free, unstoppable reign over the world at large. Literally every single time there was a single superpower that went unopposed and unchallenged throughout history, bad shit happened and millions died.
[QUOTE=DestinyDstryr;44253207]No you're talking about denying other countries the ability to take action and only allowing the privileged in the anglo-sphere to police the world and invade whoever they like.[/QUOTE] What kind of fantasy land are you living in? Do you seriously believe that the "anglosphere" (An imaginary union of evil geniuses according to you) have free reign to do what they want? Maybe it's becuase none of them are stupid enough to invade part of a country with no justification? Take a step back and think, when was the last time the "anglosphere" actually invaded a country?
[QUOTE=Streecer;44253299]What kind of fantasy land are you living in? Do you seriously believe that the "anglosphere" (An imaginary union of evil geniuses according to you) have free reign to do what they want? Maybe it's becuase none of them are stupid enough to invade part of a country with no justification? Take a step back and think, when was the last time the "anglosphere" actually invaded a country?[/QUOTE] Hmmm I dunno, does all of the middle east count?
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;44253182]Again, this is a childish argument that kids on the playground use. We're talking about geopolitics and war here[/QUOTE] this is some serious shit yo
[QUOTE=Melnek;44253283]every single time there was a single superpower that went unopposed and unchallenged throughout history, bad shit happened and millions died.[/QUOTE] Like when?
[QUOTE=DestinyDstryr;44253304]Hmmm I dunno, does all of the middle east count?[/QUOTE] I was not aware that the Anglosphere of Evil single-handedly invaded Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Qatar, Oman, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Bahrain, Israel again, Yemen, Kuwait, Israel, Iran, and Turkey.
[QUOTE=Turing;44253262]what the fuck are you talking about the far right had very little to do with what happened in kyiv, yanuk signed an agreement but then at the same time he was preparing to escape the country so you're saying that instead of forming a new government after the head of the old one escaped they should have just left an empty power vacuum ripe for some neonazi fucks to take power??? the new government hasn't done anything remotely close to far-right, some members of the Rada wanted to propose a bill that would remove Russian as an official language, but that was rejected and never happened the only reason the economy is fucked up in ukraine is because of the blatant corruption and abuse of the countries resources that has thrived under Yanuk and all those before him and also because of Russia boycotting Ukrainian products[/QUOTE] What. The [url=http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/23/ukrainian-far-right-groups-violence-kiev-pravy-sektor]far-right[/url] [url=http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26394980]had everything[/url] [url=http://www.channel4.com/news/kiev-svoboda-far-right-protests-right-sector-riot-police]to do with the protests in Kiev.[/url] They, thankfully, didn't actually force their way into the government, but they were the ones to escalate the whole thing and incite violence and hatred that has spawned many of the problems Ukraine faces today including the Crimean crisis. As the only reason Crimea decided to break-away from Ukraine was because of fear that the violence would reach their own peninsula. They should've used more peaceful methods to oust the president, and should have quelled the far-right before they ever got a chance to get involved. That way Russia wouldn't be in Ukraine right now and the lives of many could have been spared.
[QUOTE=DestinyDstryr;44253304]Hmmm I dunno, does all of the middle east count?[/QUOTE] Please point out to me where exactly this idea of "invasion" has come from. As far as I know, all of those conflicts held valid justification, and didn't end in the anglosphere slicing up the middle east like pieces of oil filled cake.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;44253309]Like when?[/QUOTE] Nazi Germany before they invaded the Soviet Union.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;44253309]Like when?[/QUOTE] Well Nazi Germany was kinda sorta unopposed. Phony war and all that jazz.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;44253309]Like when?[/QUOTE] Like every single large empire to ever form. From Rome, to Mongolia, to the British, and so on.
The 'west' hasn't made any moves to permanently occupy territory, unless you count Israel.
[QUOTE=gudman;44251307]Crimea used to be Russian territory before 1953. It's the Ukrainians who were mostly moved there under the USSR.[/QUOTE] No, the Soviet Union deported a lot of Crimean Tatars and moved ethnic Russians to Crimea. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars[/url]
[QUOTE=proch;44253333]Well Nazi Germany was kinda sorta unopposed. Phony war and all that jazz.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=laserguided;44253325]Nazi Germany before they invaded the Soviet Union.[/QUOTE] 1. I wouldn't say that millions of people died before WWII actually started 2. This only happened once, not "every single time" 3. Comparing Nazi Germany to NATO and the "Anglosphere" is retarded 4. Godwin's law [editline]16th March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Melnek;44253335]Like every single large empire to ever form. From Rome, to Mongolia, to the British, and so on.[/QUOTE] So what does this have to do with what's going on right now? Is NATO a violent empire now?
[QUOTE=SeamanStains;44253339]The 'west' hasn't made any moves to permanently occupy territory, unless you could Israel.[/QUOTE] A balance of global power doesn't necessarily involve occupation of territory. And since you brought up Israel, it could also be used as an example. Israel is a regional superpower and therefore allows itself to commit acts of atrocities without fear of other nations retaliating. Israel's power has long eclipsed U.S support (bar from international political immunity), and they have insane power projection over every nation in its immediate proximity. This is why political monopolies are bad. [editline]16th March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Laserbeams;44253351] So what does this have to do with what's going on right now? Is NATO a violent empire now?[/QUOTE] No, I was just adding to the argument by saying that NATO should not be the single deciding entity in global politics. There should always be some bloc of similar power to balance things out. Regardless of the subject at hand.
[QUOTE=Melnek;44253322]What. The [url=http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/23/ukrainian-far-right-groups-violence-kiev-pravy-sektor]far-right[/url] [url=http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26394980]had everything[/url] [url=http://www.channel4.com/news/kiev-svoboda-far-right-protests-right-sector-riot-police]to do with the protests in Kiev.[/url] They, thankfully, didn't actually force their way into the government, but they were the ones to escalate the whole thing and incite violence and hatred that has spawned many of the problems Ukraine faces today including the Crimean crisis. As the only reason Crimea decided to break-away from Ukraine was because of fear that the violence would reach their own peninsula. They should've used more peaceful methods to oust the president, and should have quelled the far-right before they ever got a chance to get involved. That way Russia wouldn't be in Ukraine right now and the lives of many could have been spared.[/QUOTE] I just wonder why right wing extremists would want to join a left wing organisation like the EU.
[QUOTE=Melnek;44253379]No, I was just adding to the argument by saying that NATO should not be the single deciding entity in global politics. There should always be some bloc of similar power to balance things out. Regardless of the subject at hand.[/QUOTE] Why? Maybe we could stop fighting and actually get shit done?
[QUOTE=Doom64hunter;44253439]I just wonder why right wing extremists would want to join a left wing organisation like the EU.[/QUOTE] They wouldn't, they argued for Ukraine's total independence from both Russian and European influence. Although some also leaned towards Russia. [QUOTE=Laserbeams;44253444]Why? Maybe we could stop fighting and actually get shit done?[/QUOTE] Implying that Europe is a safe, peaceful heaven. Kosovo and Greece spring to mind. Conflicts and clashes of ideals could happen anywhere. It is dangerous to assume that NATO nations are basically an infallible utopia the rest of the world should always look up to. They are better democratically, but there is no guarantee that couldn't change with the elimination of opposing entities in the world. If you wish I could explain further why a singular body ruling the rest of world is a bad thing, but I don't see why that's a seemingly difficult concept to grasp.
[QUOTE=Melnek;44253485]They wouldn't, they argued for Ukraine's total independence from both Russian and European influence. Although some also leaned towards Russia. Implying that Europe is a safe, peaceful heaven. Kosovo and Greece spring to mind. Conflicts and clashes of ideals could happen anywhere. It is dangerous to assume that NATO nations are basically an infallible utopia the rest of the world should always look up to. They are better democratically, but there is no guarantee that couldn't change with the elimination of opposing entities in the world. If you wish I could explain further why a singular body ruling the rest of world is a bad thing, but I don't see why that's a seemingly difficult concept to grasp.[/QUOTE] I don't see why you think Russia invading Ukraine is a good thing
[QUOTE=Doom64hunter;44253439]I just wonder why right wing extremists would want to join a left wing organisation like the EU.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't call EU a "left wing organization".
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;44253503]I don't see why you think Russia invading Ukraine is a good thing[/QUOTE] They're professionals, they're been invading for a long time. Don't worry, you got nothing to worry about.
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