It's happening: Senator to propose bill regulating black powder in wake of Boston Massacre - Polidicks

[QUOTE=ksenior;40352671]Do you have to include that crappy /k/ thread? I was retarded It's a component required to use them. It pretty much covers it.[/QUOTE] Spears are arms, so are knives, don't see black powder being used in those

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;40352835]I had difficulty thinking of something that everybody would more or less universally agree on banning.[/QUOTE] so basically, you were pandering to people by using something totally unrelated and universally disagreeable as your medium?

And someone edit the fucking OP to remove that retarded 4chan thread. The guy got literally EVERYTHING wrong. Reloading powder isn't the same as black powder. The bill doesn't restrict the sale of ammunition. And the title is sensationalist as shit. Way to blow this all out of proportion, seriously.

Also the "prediction" is silly. Of course there is going to be a call for legislation against black powder. Same thing happened with ammonium nitrate fertilizer after the Oklahoma city bombing. And the guess about pinning it on a young adult is pretty vague so it leaves it open. Since the last few shootings have been done by young adults in the late teens, early twenties, it would not be a shock. And yeah no shit they're going to try and say he's disturbed. They always do. [editline]20th April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=archangel125;40352943]And someone edit the fucking OP to remove that retarded 4chan thread. The guy got literally EVERYTHING wrong. Reloading powder isn't the same as black powder. The bill doesn't restrict the sale of ammunition. And the title is sensationalist as shit. Way to blow this all out of proportion, seriously.[/QUOTE] It could be the same. Obviously the guy left everything extremely vague just so he could go "SEE!!!"

[QUOTE=archangel125;40352943]And someone edit the fucking OP to remove that retarded 4chan thread. The guy got literally EVERYTHING wrong. Reloading powder isn't the same as black powder. The bill doesn't restrict the sale of ammunition. And the title is sensationalist as shit. Way to blow this all out of proportion, seriously.[/QUOTE] Blackpowder is used in reloading though [QUOTE=viperfan7;40352932]Spears are arms, so are knives, don't see black powder being used in those[/QUOTE] Not sure what you're getting at. Black powder is used in guns, not in modern style guns, but in antiques and reproductions that are very common

[QUOTE=viperfan7;40352932]Spears are arms, so are knives, don't see black powder being used in those[/QUOTE] Well actually one of the first weapons the ancient Chinese made with black powder was a handheld spear launcher.

Sometimes I wonder if politicians are just god-teir trolls.

[QUOTE=Mcoldwave;40352899]I just want this shit over with, I actually love my firearms I'd even say a little more then most. People really need to look over their gun fetish and start worrying about shit that truly matters. If I ever had a shot at running the country I wouldn't put this stupid as fuck issue at the top.[/QUOTE] The best part is, you posted from a Wii! Also I thought when you had a fetish with something normally it meant you enjoyed said thing.

All aboard the knee-jerk train! By the way, the bombing was not a "massacre". 3 people died. If the Senate couldn't pass even basic gun control after 20 children were murdered, they aren't going to limit or require background checks for black powder sales for this. Sometimes I'm actually happy the Senate is incapable of doing anything, because Washington is producing nothing but bad ideas the last couple of years. Gun control, SOPA/PIPA/CISPA, the Ryan budget, the Senate has killed a lot of terrible legislation...along with any chance of actual jobs legislation or serious Wall Street reform, which are the biggest fucking problems with our country right now. Stop trying to legislate internet privacy and black powder away and start doing something about the .1%er Wall Street crusade to vacuum up what little wealth the rest of the country has left!

[QUOTE=Roger Waters;40352938]so basically, you were pandering to people by using something totally unrelated and universally disagreeable as your medium?[/QUOTE] It was just an example, cool your tits. I could give a slippery slope for gay marriage leading to bestiality, but you would pick that apart too.

[QUOTE=ksenior;40352961]Blackpowder is used in reloading though [/QUOTE] If you like flintlock pistols and muskets.

[QUOTE=axelord157;40352924]It's an effective, yet callous strategy. Most people can't think correctly while addled with fear.[/QUOTE] Just because it's effective doesn't make it right.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;40352992] I could give a slippery slope for gay marriage leading to bestiality, but you would pick that apart too. [/QUOTE] Gay marriage is a right. Gun control is [I]removal of rights.[/I] Those two things have nothing to do with each other in the context that you are using them in.

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;40353014]Gay marriage is a right. Gun control is [I]removal of rights.[/I] Those two things have nothing to do with each other in the context that you are using them in.[/QUOTE] What in the world has this to do with gun control? And frankly, calling gun control the 'removal of rights' is hyperbole if I ever heard it. [editline]20th April 2013[/editline] Gun 'prohibition' would be the removal of rights, just to clarify.

Remember that making gunpowder is actually a long and laborious task. People won't start mass producing it by themselves. You need to get the sulphur, potassium nitrate, carbon. Mix them carefully to the right amounts (it needing to change depending on calibre and usage), then make the grains to the correct size, store it carefully, (remember that a spark will ruin everything), keep it dry, and use it before it goes off. If you fuck up gunpower production, the powder will either burn too slowly or too quickly, it might "cake" into solid lumps, it might not burn at all, it could foul/clog the barrel, and you of course need to fire it in dry conditions and awkwardly reload it, taking half a minute to do so. Hence bayonet charges remaining a valid tactic right into the 19th century.

[QUOTE=archangel125;40352993]If you like flintlock pistols and muskets.[/QUOTE] No, many brass cartridges are blackpowder. It's certainly not limited to muzzleloaders [QUOTE=Sobotnik;40353050]Remember that making gunpowder is actually a long and laborious task. People won't start mass producing it by themselves. You need to get the sulphur, potassium nitrate, carbon. Mix them carefully to the right amounts (it needing to change depending on calibre and usage), then make the grains to the correct size, store it carefully, (remember that a spark will ruin everything), keep it dry, and use it before it goes off. If you fuck up gunpower production, the powder will either burn too slowly or too quickly, it might "cake" into solid lumps, it might not burn at all, it could foul/clog the barrel, and you of course need to fire it in dry conditions and awkwardly reload it, taking half a minute to do so. Hence bayonet charges remaining a valid tactic right into the 19th century.[/QUOTE] Instead they'll just go get modern smokeless powder, which is more powerful and has a higher energy density

[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;40353005]Just because it's effective doesn't make it right.[/QUOTE] To be fair, it's probably not effective either. People substantiate effectiveness of restricted items/substances in the same way that they substantiate that saturated fat is detrimental to health. They look at a specific country with a particular habit, compare it to another country with a juxtaposition habit, and loosely draw the conclusion that "lack of X trigger causes Y circumstance" even though it's generally the case that Y circumstance already existed and "lack of X" is just a product of said Y circumstance. Holy shit that's a convoluted explanation.

[QUOTE=archangel125;40352993]If you like flintlock pistols and muskets.[/QUOTE] Or reloading classic .45 colt, .45(or .50)-70/90/120, .38SPL, .303 Brit, .577 Snider, .30-30, .44 Russian, or any other cartridge designed before 1900, to get the classic black powder feel out of it. Not to mention modern black powder muzzle-loaders are used by hunters because they often get a longer season than cartridge guns (I can confirm this in Ontario, at least). [QUOTE=archangel125;40353028]And frankly, calling gun control the 'removal of rights' is hyperbole if I ever heard it.[/QUOTE] Not in the US it's not. If it is their right to own guns, restrictions upon guns are removals of the right.

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;40353014]Gay marriage is a right. Gun control is [I]removal of rights.[/I] Those two things have nothing to do with each other in the context that you are using them in.[/QUOTE] What's better for a slippery slope then? If the government taxes you, it's only a matter of time before 120% taxes become the norm.

[QUOTE=ksenior;40353056]No, many brass cartridges are blackpowder. It's certainly not limited to muzzleloaders[/QUOTE] Happily, you can buy those cartridges without needing background checks. As I recall, the bill doesn't restrict the sales of ammunition.

[QUOTE=ksenior;40353056]No, many brass cartridges are blackpowder. It's certainly not limited to muzzleloaders[/QUOTE] IIRC many brass cartridges use black powder substitutes. Explosive substances with similar properties to black powder, despite being different compounds.

[QUOTE=ksenior;40353056]Instead they'll just go get modern smokeless powder, which is more powerful and has a higher energy density[/QUOTE] My argument was that people wouldn't bother making it themselves. It's just not worth it.

[QUOTE=archangel125;40353065]Happily, you can buy those cartridges without needing background checks. As I recall, the bill doesn't restrict the sales of ammunition.[/QUOTE] So instead they'll just buy blackpowder ammo and pull it apart to get the blackpodwer. So we're back at square one. Not to mention reloading is the only option with many of these old rounds [editline]20th April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Sobotnik;40353078]My argument was that people wouldn't bother making it themselves. It's just not worth it.[/QUOTE] And my argument is that if it's too difficult to make and they want to commit a crime they'll just go with the easier to get and more powerful option

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;40353064]What's better for a slippery slope then? If the government taxes you, it's only a matter of time before 120% taxes become the norm.[/QUOTE] Except you can gauge the validity of a slippery slope by analyzing what people are saying regarding that argument. There are a number of proponents of gun control who want all guns banned and confiscated, but admit it cannot all be done at once, it must be incremental. Thus the slippery slope of gun control has some validation, based off the opinions of those in vocal support of gun control.

[QUOTE=ksenior;40353082]So instead they'll just buy blackpowder ammo and pull it apart to get the blackpodwer. So we're back at square one. Not to mention reloading is the only option with many of these old rounds [/quote] No amount of legislation can stop a truly determined attack. They could more easily make their own black powder than obtain it from ammunition. The idea with this law, as with all laws, is to serve as an effective deterrent, while inconveniencing law-abiding society at large as little as possible. [QUOTE=ksenior;40353082]And my argument is that if it's too difficult to make and they want to commit a crime they'll just go with the easier to get and more powerful option[/QUOTE] Interesting theory. Pray tell, what is the more easily obtained, higher-yield explosive compound to black powder?

[QUOTE=archangel125;40353028]What in the world has this to do with gun control? And frankly, calling gun control the 'removal of rights' is hyperbole if I ever heard it. [editline]20th April 2013[/editline] Gun 'prohibition' would be the removal of rights, just to clarify.[/QUOTE] One common fear about gun control (in many forms, this black powder regulation being just one) is that they are so regulated and/or taxed that it puts gun ownership completely out of reach for the average American. It's why bills such as this are opposed so strongly by pro-gun people.

[QUOTE=archangel125;40353105]No amount of legislation can stop a truly determined attack. They could more easily make their own black powder than obtain it from ammunition. The idea with this law, as with all laws, is to serve as an effective deterrent, while inconveniencing law-abiding society at large as little as possible.[/QUOTE] Except it [I]would[/I] massively inconvenience a whole heap of people while achieving nothing because as I said, better alternatives are available.

[QUOTE=viperfan7;40352932]Spears are arms, so are knives, don't see black powder being used in those[/QUOTE] no arms are arms

[QUOTE=ksenior;40353082]And my argument is that if it's too difficult to make and they want to commit a crime they'll just go with the easier to get and more powerful option[/QUOTE] If it's easier and more powerful, why the hell didn't they do that one instead?

[QUOTE=archangel125;40353105]No amount of legislation can stop a truly determined attack. They could more easily make their own black powder than obtain it from ammunition. The idea with this law, as with all laws, is to serve as an effective deterrent, while inconveniencing law-abiding society at large as little as possible.[/QUOTE] wait wait wait. So you admit that no amount of legislation can stop a truly determined attack... Are you saying that all the bombings that have happened and have used any sort of explosive are not "truly determined"? You cannot deter people who are determined to kill other people. You either have to stop them before they do the act, either by invading their privacy, or you have to wait for them to commit the crime and do it the legal way. Any other way is just a feel-good bullshit tactic to make people think that "something has been done", while the only people being punished are the people who obey the law.