College Campuses Are Scrambling to Remove Confederate Symbols - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48047186]I think thats a valid question when even basic terms such as "racism" are up for debate. "Power+privilege", etc.[/QUOTE] Hate speech defined by the Australian Commonwealth Government is [QUOTE]Unlawful for a person to do an act, otherwise than in private, if the act is reasonably likely, in all the circumstances, to offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate another person or a group of people; and the act is done because of the race, colour or national or ethnic origin [or sexual preference] of the other person, or of some or all of the people in the group.[/QUOTE] [editline]25th June 2015[/editline] I reckon that'd be a good start to define hate speech [editline]25th June 2015[/editline] Of course this law needs updating to include "sexual preference" but I'll include it in the quote

-snip- [sp]hall of fame material!!!!![/sp]

[QUOTE=massaki;48048002]This is probably more to do with silencing the complaints of annoying liberal thinking students than preventing the promotion of the ideals and current stigma behind the flag.[/QUOTE] i can't wrap my head around this this entire thread is hall of fame material two guys says this will encourage mass shooters one guy says this will lead to the confederate flag being wiped from history books and this one has no idea what the concept of a protest is

[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;48047154]Because it's against one of the things our country is supposedly founded upon? And the first amendment? [editline]25th June 2015[/editline] I can understand private places banning it, but public entities like college campuses shouldn't have this right.[/QUOTE] If someone at Columbia University walks around in a confederate flag T-Shirt, they can't do anything about it. However, Columbia, Virginia Tech, MIT, or any other private or public university can choose how they represent themselves. This includes choosing to display a confederate flag on their own property. The supreme court has ruled that states reserve the right to make their own license plate designs. This is because if some guy makes a custom license plate that says "VIRGINIA" with a big fat swastika on it, it may not represent virginia well. The federal government treats public institutions (as well as states) as if they were individual people, and if an individual chooses not to represent his or herself in a certain way, then that is his or her right. It is not, however, a public institutions right from preventing another person from representing his or herself a certain way. THAT is the first Amendment.

You'd think there's a huge threat of neo-secessionists around from all these reactions. Nobody gave a crap about the racism in the flag before the shooting, why do they now?

[QUOTE=Doom64hunter;48048084]You'd think there's a huge threat of neo-secessionists around from all these reactions. Nobody gave a crap about the racism in the flag before the shooting, why do they now?[/QUOTE] lots of people cared about it, the confederate flag always has been a controversial issue its just that the massacre which was clearly fueled by racism made even more people care about it, question if its appropriate to fly such a racist symbol, and many people doesn't think it is

[QUOTE=Moustacheman;48047211]This is going to be a problem because quite a few reenactments are hosted by colleges and we're obviously not just going to leave our units' colors at home.[/QUOTE] Meanwhile the various Axis reenactors who are connected with small town museums will still be able to bring their tanks, banners, signs and uniforms.

[QUOTE=Doom64hunter;48048084]You'd think there's a huge threat of neo-secessionists around from all these reactions. Nobody gave a crap about the racism in the flag before the shooting, why do they now?[/QUOTE] They did care. Nothing thrust it into the national scope before this. When tragedies happen, our very first reaction is to try to make meaning out of it. Who can we blame; how did this happen; what can we do to prevent this. In columbine, it was a number of things: goth culture, video games, gun laws. In sandy hook, it was about mental health and gun laws. In this, it was clearly about racism. What can we do to solve racism? I don't know. Nobody knows. People are racist, and we don't think there's anything we can do about it. We passed all these laws that made black people equal before the law. What else can we do? Hey, why is the confederate flag still up in charleston? It's not even at half mast! Isn't that a symbol of racism! take it down! There, we fixed racism. If we can find some reason or meaning behind a tragedy, it means that people die for a reason. A good reason or a bad reason, it means that the universe has meaning and that it's not cruel and we're not alone. If everything goes according to the plan, then we can be content knowing that even though some psychopath killed 9 people, it happened for a reason. If, however, we can't find a scapegoat for our problems, we're forced to acknowledge the fact that sometimes, crazy people do evil, crazy things, and there's little to nothing that we can do to stop it. And that is scary, because it means that there is no reason for some things, and that we can't fix some things, and that the universe doesn't care if we live or die.

-snip, i have no idea what i just did, sorry-

either the article isn't being read or people here like to overexaggerate [quote]While there are Confederate flags in museum displays at the Citadel, it is the flag in a place of honor in the chapel that has been controversial[/quote]

Of terrorism, George Bush gave a speech after 9/11, in which he said [quote]These terrorists kill not merely to end lives but to disrupt and end a way of life. With every atrocity they hope that America grows fearful, retreating from the world and forsaking our friends. They stand against us because we stand in their way. We're not deceived by their pretenses to piety. We have seen their kind before. They are the heirs of all the murderous ideologies of the 20th century. By sacrificing human life to serve their radical visions, by abandoning every value except the will to power, they follow in the path of fascism, Nazism and totalitarianism. And they will follow that path all the way to where it ends: in history's unmarked grave of discarded lies.[/quote] I think this fits perfectly not only with islamic terrorism, but home grown racist terrorism in the united states. I think that confederate flags have their place in history; but like other things in history, they belong with the other symbols of totalitarianism: in a museum. Not on the back of your pickup truck

In the midst of all of this, the Trans-Pacific Partnership's landed on the White House desk, and is expected to be signed today. I haven't heard anything about that on the national news, and I've only heard snippets on NPR. I'm not usually one for conspiracy, but I wonder if "flaggate" is just a smokescreen for something larger and more dangerous. Not saying, of course, that it didn't happen, or that it was actors, or anything like that. That's ridiculous. But I wonder if the non-stop media coverage is being used to detract attention from the TPP.

[QUOTE=Moustacheman;48047211]This is going to be a problem because quite a few reenactments are hosted by colleges and we're obviously not just going to leave our units' colors at home.[/QUOTE] Re-enactment is a bit different to flying the flag any other time. One is a historical re-enactment, the other is endorsing the ideals behind a flag. Assuming the re-enactment groups aren't using their re-enactments to say "the south was the best shut up", because that's silly. You're probably fine.

[QUOTE=Ownederd;48047173]you should know what it is, instead of trying to make a semantics discussion out of it[/QUOTE] No he asked a very valid question and one I bet you cannot answer. You know hate speech cases are thrown out all the time in America because no ones been able to make an actual solid case involving hate speech? Speech is protected under the first amendment. [QUOTE]In this country there is no right to speak fighting words—those words without social value, directed to a specific individual, that would provoke a reasonable member of the group about whom the words are spoken. For example, a person cannot utter a racial or ethnic epithet to another if those words are likely to cause the listener to react violently.[B] However, under the First Amendment, individuals do have a right to speech that the listener disagrees with and to speech that is offensive and hateful. [/B] [/QUOTE] Heres some supreme court cases involving hate speech. Notice how far the people went and the fact they were all let go on everything involving speech. [URL]http://civilliberty.about.com/od/freespeech/tp/Hate-Speech-Cases.htm[/URL]

the CSA was heavily responsible for upholding the slave trade and was heavily reliant on it to supplement its economy does that satisfy you? there's really no other way to paint that

I've made it a rule for my life that I always assume good intent unless it's not logically possible to do so, and I feel like these types of controversies just wouldn't happen if everyone did likewise. It's obvious to any thinking person that the average southerner who wears, or in some way uses, the confederate flag isn't doing so in the name of slavery and racism. I totally understand that a lot of people who didn't grow up with this context automatically have negative feelings about the flag (including myself), but the problem lies when they impute these negative feelings onto people who don't share them. They assume that southerners who use the confederate flag MUST also think that it represents racism, just like they do... but they simply don't. If people started with the assumption that they're using the flag for some not malicious reason (since those reasons do actually exist) until shown otherwise, then I really don't think this would be a problem at all. In fact, it would take all power away from the flag for racists. [editline]25th June 2015[/editline] I see the word 'nigger' in a similar light. It's easy for people who don't use the word to assume negative connotations about it whenever it's used, but there are a lot of black people who use it without those negative connotations. Trying to understand where they're coming from is a better solution than judging their motives and trying to ban it. In a sense, the southerners are trying to take their identity back from the racists just like black people took back the use of the word nigger within their group.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;48047106]I wonder what would Darrell think about all this, considering one of his most famous signature guitars sports that flag. If the gawddamn General Lee '69 Charger is now frowned upon in NASCAR events, his guitar would start to attract the wrong kind of attention as well. [img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/fRxS3kX.png[/img_thumb] [editline]25th June 2015[/editline] Hell, I'd like to see if Dean guitars goes ahead and pulls it out of the catalog.[/QUOTE] If they do it'll be a middle finger to dime. They pretty much begged him to endorse Dean Guitars after using Washburn Guitars for over a decade. His brother will probably fight the decesion if it's pulled.

[QUOTE=Ownederd;48048680]the CSA was heavily responsible for upholding the slave trade and was heavily reliant on it to supplement its economy does that satisfy you? there's really no other way to paint that[/QUOTE] Who gives a shit? People have the right to display the flag no matter what, you can't just start banning something or taking it down because it offends people, that's not how America works.

[QUOTE=Jzzb;48049343]Who gives a shit? People have the right to display the flag no matter what, you can't just start banning something or taking it down because it offends people, that's not how America works.[/QUOTE] And places have the right to not sell those flags. Institutions have the right to request that people don't fly symbols of oppression from ye olde days. What's your point? Nobody has actually tried to create laws banning the display of a (incredibly tacky) flag (actually flying most flags looks pretty tacky thinking of it).

[QUOTE=Jzzb;48049343][B]Who gives a shit?[/B] People have the right to display the flag no matter what, you can't just start banning something or taking it down because it offends people, that's not how America works.[/QUOTE] uhm lots of people or anyone with even a remote interest in history, and for good reason.

I'm just glad these vitriolic rednecks down here in the south are finally being forced to grow up. Next is forcing them to adopt an accent that doesn't make them sound like autistic down syndrome children.

[QUOTE=Tmaxx;48049489]I'm just glad these vitriolic rednecks down here in the south are finally being forced to grow up. Next is forcing them to adopt an accent that doesn't make them sound like autistic down syndrome children.[/QUOTE] Most southern accents are great though. Settle down.

The most disgusting instance of this was when a few years ago Washington and Lee University removed Confederate symbols [b]from General Lee's own crypt[/b]. What purpose does that serve?

[QUOTE=Tmaxx;48049489]I'm just glad these vitriolic rednecks down here in the south are finally being forced to grow up.[B] Next is forcing them to adopt an accent that doesn't make them sound like autistic down syndrome children[/B].[/QUOTE] i'm not gonna hold it against you if you think southern accents are bad, but this is just excessive and disgusting

Can't wait to see how this will affect any old tv show/broadcast about two people never meaning any harm.

[img]https://40.media.tumblr.com/683b04748b08390bd83d6cd994e6f977/tumblr_nqiiioqhRR1rr5t33o1_540.jpg[/img] an excellent replacement

[QUOTE=Ownederd;48047082]this really isn't all that different from the flag of the NSDAP being banned all over germany except for historical or educational reasons. i don't know why people are getting flustered over this being banned[/QUOTE] Except uike Germany we have garuntees on Freedom of Speech; even if what is being said or expresssed is wholy wrong or unpopular.

[QUOTE=bdd458;48050023]Except uike Germany we have garuntees on Freedom of Speech; even if what is being said or expresssed is wholy wrong or unpopular.[/QUOTE] freedom of speech doesn't imply that hate speech will be protected

[QUOTE=Ownederd;48050035]freedom of speech doesn't imply that hate speech will be protected[/QUOTE] Hate speech is about intent, not content. A person flying the flag for non-racial reasons is no more hate speech than a black guy calling another black guy 'my nigga.' With that said, the entire idea of hate speech is stupid on its face. It just make mean things about cirtain groups arbitrarily more important.

[QUOTE=Ownederd;48050035]freedom of speech doesn't imply that hate speech will be protected[/QUOTE] I mean, you can not like the flag all you want for whatever feelings you have attached to it, but it seems like a pretty big longshot to call flying it on your own property hate-speech, when probably 95% of the people flying it have absolutely no political statement or anything behind it.