Trump Campaign Manager Paul Manafort Charged with "Conspiracy Against United States" - Polidicks

The Not Guilty pleas definitely make this more interesting, to say the least. What are the implications of that choice? Does this rule out a possible Manafort flip? Is there anything notable about the turnover from indictment -> plea?

[QUOTE=BlindSniper17;52837586]Ohhhhh, the scandal! I wonder what their end game with the not guilty plea is, in terms of whether or not they think they genuinely have a good case or they are just stalling for time.[/QUOTE] I'm super worried they have some kind of slimy loophole.

[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52837594]They're dragging this to a trail so?[/QUOTE] to buy time

[QUOTE=An Armed Bear;52837596]I'm super worried they have some kind of slimy loophole.[/QUOTE] Maybe they could also be waiting for a pardon from Papa Trump to cover their butts. Hopefully not, but time will tell.

[QUOTE=BlindSniper17;52837602]Maybe they could also be waiting for a pardon from Papa Trump to cover their butts. Hopefully not, but time will tell.[/QUOTE] Pardoning them would pretty much cause a metaphorical nuclear shitstorm right? Like, not something that'd be forgotten in a week?

not a constitutional lawyer: if trump pardons, it's an admission of guilt, in other words the facts are true. because they're charged with conspiracy, anyone included in that conspiracy not indicted/pardoned now can have the pardon used as proof of guilt in a trial i think basically if trump decides to pardon this is gonna get really interesting

[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52837612]Pardoning them would pretty much cause a metaphorical nuclear shitstorm right? Like, not something that'd be forgotten in a week?[/QUOTE] In normal circumstances, yes. But, with the GOP being cowardly and refusing to hold Trump accountable (not to mention how 30% of the country treats Trump as God-Emperor and see him above any kind of fault), nothing is off the table sadly. That being said, I bet Meuller has some emergency contingency plans should Trump try to fire him or pardon everyone on a national level (state level crimes can not be pardoned, for example). It will be interesting to see, that's for sure.

[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52837612]Pardoning them would pretty much cause a metaphorical nuclear shitstorm right? Like, not something that'd be forgotten in a week?[/QUOTE] I'm not sure how significant it would really be. Trump couldn't care less about how his perception is affected by controversial pardons (See: Arpaio) and I can't imagine that it'll have much bearing on the investigation. It would be huge news, though.

[QUOTE=Duck M.;52837626]I'm not sure how significant it would really be. Trump couldn't care less about how his perception is affected by controversial pardons (See: Arpaio) and I can't imagine that it'll have much bearing on the investigation. It'll be huge news, though.[/QUOTE] Not to mention a clusterfuck of a constitutional crisis. A silver lining though is that the next POTUS will hopefully use this as a learning opportunity and better refine our checks and balances to prevent a future Trump. Ideally, incentives to hold your own party accountable and to prioritize the country over partisan politics would be added. For good measure, re-implementing the Fairness Doctrine would be worth mulling over too.

Trump ain't gonna pardon nobody. They're worth way more to him well under some bus while he cries Hillary than they are ruining his reputation further. Which they'll still do.

I haven't been keeping up on the news, what's this uranium deflection point every Trump fan is using now about?

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;52837652]I haven't been keeping up on the news, what's this uranium deflection point every Trump fan is using now about?[/QUOTE] [URL]https://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-uranium-russia-deal/[/URL] The claim is as follows: Hillary Clinton’s State Department approved the transfer of 20% of America’s uranium holdings to Russia, while nine investors in the deal funneled $145 million to the Clinton Foundation. You may have seen this claim in its [B]weaponised meme form[/B]: [t]https://us-east-1.tchyn.io/snopes-production/uploads/2016/10/clinton-uranium.jpg?w=403[/t]

I feel like Congress is more likely to retroactively impeach Clinton for crimes she didn't commit rather than impeach Trump [editline]30th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Quark:;52837662][URL]https://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-uranium-russia-deal/[/URL] The claim is as follows: Hillary Clinton’s State Department approved the transfer of 20% of America’s uranium holdings to Russia, while nine investors in the deal funneled $145 million to the Clinton Foundation. You may have seen this claim in its [B]weaponised meme form[/B]: [t]https://us-east-1.tchyn.io/snopes-production/uploads/2016/10/clinton-uranium.jpg?w=403[/t][/QUOTE] Clinton had nothing to do with this deal last I heard

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;52837652]I haven't been keeping up on the news, what's this uranium deflection point every Trump fan is using now about?[/QUOTE] They are trying to attack Mueller's credibility through the use of random ass bullshit that makes no sense if you actually think about it. Here's an article laying it out [url]https://thinkprogress.org/trump-distract-robert-mueller-explained-807999089c9e/[/url]

[QUOTE=Lambeth;52837679]I feel like Congress is more likely to retroactively impeach Clinton for crimes she didn't commit rather than impeach Trump [editline]30th October 2017[/editline] Clinton had nothing to do with this deal last I heard[/QUOTE] [media]https://twitter.com/MyDaughtersArmy/status/924702075170193408[/media] Here's a concise and efficient butchering of the Hillary uranium manufactured controversy. TL;DW Hillary wasn't involved in the panel that approved the deal and Hillary's involvement with the Uranium One guy was years before she was in the State Department; the two facts have nothing to do with each other rather than paint a smoking gun of conspiracy.

[QUOTE=Bob The Knob;52837695]They are trying to attack Mueller's credibility through the use of random ass bullshit that makes no sense if you actually think about it. Here's an article laying it out [url]https://thinkprogress.org/trump-distract-robert-mueller-explained-807999089c9e/[/url][/QUOTE] [URL="https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/28/trump-assange-bannon-farage-bound-together-in-unholy-alliance"]They[/URL] got some [URL="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Analytica"]smart people[/URL] working with them. Sadly it all works scarily well. These people are the tech savvy fascists of the 21st century

[media]https://twitter.com/FormerBu/status/925070993692987394[/media] [editline]31st October 2017[/editline] I wonder what Comey's thinking right now.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;52837679]I feel like Congress is more likely to retroactively impeach Clinton for crimes she didn't commit rather than impeach Trump [editline]30th October 2017[/editline] [b]Clinton had nothing to do with this deal last I heard[/b][/QUOTE] Since when has that ever stopped the Donald Trump brigade? I can almost guarantee the only reason that Trump hasn't pushed forward with an attempt to prosecute on all this Clinton shit is that he knows she'd be exonerated of anything major, and the whole issue is much more useful to him as Schroedinger's Allegations.

As Benjamin Wittes said regarding today's fucking [B]bonkers[/B] updates, this is only Meuller's [I]opening salvo[/I], and [B]what[/B] an opening salvo it's been. In the coming weeks and months, expect to see Kushner, Flynn, Sessions, Page, and Trump Jr. in handcuffs, among others.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;52837780]As Benjamin Wittes said regarding today's fucking [B]bonkers[/B] updates, this is only Meuller's [I]opening salvo[/I], and [B]what[/B] an opening salvo it's been. In the coming weeks and months, expect to see Kushner, Flynn, Sessions, Page, and Trump Jr. in handcuffs, among others.[/QUOTE] I don't get this "hypetrain building" to be quite honest, why not just let the investigation unfold instead of making - honestly quite bombastic - statements about who's going down. I understand you're probably happy to see parts coming down, but I think talking more about reality and less about unsubstantiated claims would be an improvement. I mean if you'd lay down the reasons why you think those particular people are going down, I'd be happy to read those, but yeah.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;52837780]As Benjamin Wittes said regarding today's fucking [B]bonkers[/B] updates, this is only Meuller's [I]opening salvo[/I], and [B]what[/B] an opening salvo it's been. In the coming weeks and months, expect to see Kushner, Flynn, Sessions, Page, and Trump Jr. in handcuffs, among others.[/QUOTE] Yeah ETA on that? Or that it will even get that far? It seems like a success sure but in reality these guys aren’t big parts of the government, just the election. Fart in the dark compared to actually going after the president. If it was so obvious and clear about supposed collusion, they wouldn’t have waited and constantly went “Oh something will happen soon™“

#Mueller4Prez

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;52837790]I don't get this "hypetrain building" to be quite honest, why not just let the investigation unfold instead of making - honestly quite bombastic - statements about who's going down. I understand you're probably happy to see parts coming down, but I think talking more about reality and less about unsubstantiated claims would be an improvement. I mean if you'd lay down the reasons why you think those particular people are going down, I'd be happy to read those, but yeah.[/QUOTE] [url]https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/924988111880417280[/url] This lays out the reasoning quite clearly. Papadopoulis shattered the timelines and testimonies of Trump's inner circle, and [I]proved[/I] that they were actively seeking contact with the Russians regarding "thousands of hacked emails" from very early moments in his campaign. The new timeline establishes active knowledge of everybody within Trump's inner circle, including Donald Trump himself, of Russian interest in his success, and active efforts from Trump's people to engage in a Quid Pro Quo arrangement to secure the release of those emails. Every one of those people, and every single person included in Papadopoulis's email chains, and every person present at the March 31st National Security meeting where Papadopoulis verbally declared his representation of Russian agents (while sitting ten feet from Donald Trump himself), is complicit, and will face charges. Papadopoulis is a smoking gun, man. He undoes nearly every lie from Trump's camp regarding Russian collusion. [editline]30th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52837800]Yeah ETA on that? Or that it will even get that far? It seems like a success sure but in reality these guys aren’t big parts of the government, just the election. Fart in the dark compared to actually going after the president. If it was so obvious and clear about supposed collusion, they wouldn’t have waited and constantly went “Oh something will happen soon™“[/QUOTE] I expect we'll see a flurry of indictments over the next three months or so.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;52837790]I don't get this "hypetrain building" to be quite honest, why not just let the investigation unfold instead of making - honestly quite bombastic - statements about who's going down. I understand you're probably happy to see parts coming down, but I think talking more about reality and less about unsubstantiated claims would be an improvement. I mean if you'd lay down the reasons why you think those particular people are going down, I'd be happy to read those, but yeah.[/QUOTE] Here's one specific thing: Michael Flynn failed to register as a foreign agent under the FARA - this was given as a potential legal problem for Flynn in [url=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/25/us/politics/michael-flynn-russia.html]this NYT article[/url] back in May. However, that article noted that Justice rarely bothers to prosecute people for this. But looking at Manafort's indictment today, count 11 is for making false and misleading FARA statements - this confirms that Mueller's not fucking around and will prosecute you for this. So Flynn, at least, is probably going to be indicted for that at some point. Jared Kushner is also [url=http://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/12/politics/jared-kushner-background-check-form/index.html]publicly known[/url] to have left a ton of shit off his security clearance form, which I believe can be illegal, but I think that's a different form under a different law so it might work a little bit differently Papadopoulos' indictment for lying to the FBI also seems to confirm that Mueller will basically indict you for anything he can pin on you. That's pretty worrying for a lot of people who might have hoped their lesser crimes would be overlooked

[url]https://lawfareblog.com/robert-muellers-show-strength-quick-and-dirty-analysis[/url] Lays out the timeline of Papadopoulos's involvement with the campaign, and his communications with Russian agents, as noted in his unsealed plea deal. Also provides a succinct overview of just how fucking fucked Trump and his people are as a result of today's developments. [quote]The first big takeaway from this morning’s flurry of charging and plea documents with respect to Paul Manafort Jr., Richard Gates III, and George Papadopoulos is this: The President of the United States had as his campaign chairman a man who had allegedly served for years as an unregistered foreign agent for a puppet government of Vladimir Putin, a man who was allegedly laundering remarkable sums of money even while running the now-president’s campaign, a man who allegedly lied about all of this to the FBI and the Justice Department. The second big takeaway is even starker: A member of President Trump’s campaign team now admits that he was working with people he knew to be tied to the Russian government to “arrange a meeting between the Campaign and the Russian government officials” and to obtain “dirt” on Hillary Clinton in the form of thousands of hacked emails—and that he lied about these activities to the FBI. He briefed President Trump on at least some them.[/quote] [quote]That said, the Papadopoulos stipulation offers a stunningly frank, if probably incomplete, account of what was occurring in the spring of 2016 in the Trump campaign. To wit, during that period, members of the Trump campaign team were actively working to set up a meeting with Russian officials or representatives. And from a very early point in the campaign, those meetings were explicitly about obtaining hacked, incriminating emails.[/quote] [quote]The stipulation also contains some rather damaging information about President Trump himself. Papadopoulos says he attended a “national security” meeting on March 31, 2016 with Trump personally in attendance, along with his other foreign policy advisors. In that meeting, Papadopoulos told the group that he had connections to arrange a meeting between Trump and President Putin. This means that Trump either knew or should have known about his campaign’s effort to interface with Russia, even as news of various criminal hacking and attempts to interfere with the US election were becoming public.[/quote] Pictured, Papadopoulis, ten feet from Donald Trump, at the meeting in question. Sessions also present. [img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKXDt1CX0AEUUkO.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;52837790]I don't get this "hypetrain building" to be quite honest, why not just let the investigation unfold instead of making - honestly quite bombastic - statements about who's going down. I understand you're probably happy to see parts coming down, but I think talking more about reality and less about unsubstantiated claims would be an improvement. I mean if you'd lay down the reasons why you think those particular people are going down, I'd be happy to read those, but yeah.[/QUOTE] Read the Seth Abrahamson Twitter post that BDA linked. It goes into more detail than I feel like regurgitating.

How amazing would it be if Papa was wearing a wire in that very picture.

[QUOTE=The Rifleman;52837873]How amazing would it be if Papa was wearing a wire in that very picture.[/QUOTE] Papadopoulis wasn't in cooperation with the FBI until three months ago, unfortunately. Just the same, one can hope he captured some damning conversations in that period. I want Trump's inner circle, on audio, admitting to collusion. I want "Deny and Deflect" to be an impossibility. I want Trump to have to scream "Fake News" at his [I]own people.[/I]

According to sources that don't exactly meet FP's source requirements (Raw story and CNN in this case), Manafort's bail is set at $10 million. If anyone can find a better source, feel free to post it. According to a google search, Manafort's net worth is $50 million. That's a solid fifth of his net. :godzing:

[QUOTE=Kartoffel;52837899]According to sources that don't exactly meet FP's source requirements (Raw story and CNN in this case), Manafort's bail is set at $10 million. If anyone can find a better source, feel free to post it. According to a gogle search, Manafort's net worth is $50 million. That's a solid fifth of his net. :godzing:[/QUOTE] As a note, the bail being set higher than Manafort could afford would be good news. It would mean that he has to sweat it out in lockup until his trial, giving him [I]plenty of time[/I] to think about the benefits of a plea deal. Flipping Manafort testify against Trump's regime is the ultimate goal here.