GOP College Voter Suppression (And a bit of Michele Bachmann's IQ) - Polidicks

[QUOTE=s0beit;28510051]So the liberal perspective is now the factual argument? Anything else is wrong? You need pills.[/QUOTE] Thanks for putting words in my mouth

[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;28510258]Thanks for putting words in my mouth[/QUOTE] If you aren't keeping up with the conversation my post was in response to, don't post at all.

[QUOTE=s0beit;28510176] First of all, yes they can make decisions for themselves [i]with all the information made available to them[/i] which in a college environment isn't a lot and when they're offered biased summer reading material by a biased professor and never offered alternative arguments or viewpoints, its a fucking problem. [/QUOTE] readings are sometimes going to necessarily be political, that's how grown-up school works. let me reiterate that "conservative" and "liberal" aren't the only two conflicting viewpoints, so if you want to be completely fair you also have to make them teach about stuff like monarchism and juche [editline]9th March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=s0beit;28510264]If you aren't keeping up with the conversation my post was in response to, don't post at all.[/QUOTE] if i say something bad it should only be held against me for a little while [editline]9th March 2011[/editline] colleges will turn to shit if you create in them this stilted, "you can't say bad things about people's beliefs and you have to teach about beliefs you find personally objectionable" atmosphere. If don't want your beliefs to be challenged, then go to a conservative college like Liberty university

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;28510276]readings are sometimes going to necessarily be political, that's how grown-up school works. let me reiterate that "conservative" and "liberal" aren't the only two conflicting viewpoints, so if you want to be completely fair you also have to make them teach about stuff like monarchism and juche[/quote] I don't have a problem with that but really all it takes is for questions or essays to be in an open ended, i.e. in the report video i posted above this would have been fine: [quote]"Write a report on sarah palin, what you like or dislike about her and if you think she's right or wrong and why" [/quote] Tell me why that's wrong as opposed to the assignment in the video i posted and we'll move on from there [QUOTE=SigmaLambda;28510276]if i say something bad it should only be held against me for a little while[/QUOTE] Are you fucking retarded? You try teaching philosophy or political material based on fact, tell me how that works for you [QUOTE=SigmaLambda;28510276]colleges will turn to shit if you create in them this stilted, "you can't say bad things about people's beliefs and you have to teach about beliefs you find personally objectionable" atmosphere. If don't want your beliefs to be challenged, then go to a conservative college like Liberty university[/QUOTE] I never said i don't want ideas challenged, in fact that's exactly what the fuck i said to do. Being critical against one belief system and not the other is fucking bullshit, though and it's pretty evident it does happen.

[QUOTE=s0beit;28510051]So the liberal perspective is now the factual argument? Anything else is wrong? You need pills.[/QUOTE] well I guess in many ways knowing facts could change your political view. There are many political beliefs based on what people think people will react to and sociology would be able to change someones political view on that. SO I guess education can change political views. But I never said anything like the liberal way is the only correct way. Oh and "you need pills" is the strangest insult I ever heard but since I do take pills (like half about half of america) I guess its just a reminder to get my glass of water.

[QUOTE=s0beit;28510349]Are you fucking retarded? You try teaching philosophy or political material based on fact, tell me how that works for you[/QUOTE] uhh your political beliefs aren't based on facts? [QUOTE=s0beit;28510349] Being critical against one belief system and not the other is fucking bullshit, though and it's pretty evident it does happen.[/QUOTE] not if you're a normal-ass human being who prefers one system of beliefs to another. teachers and students aren't robots who can be programmed to treat everything equally and let me reiterate that you characterizing colleges as "TEACHING LIBERALISM" is way off base. most people in college, professors included, are liberal, and open about it, but there are still standards of conduct and curriculum, it's not just rampant conservative hunting forcing teachers to alter their curriculum in order to adhere to some sort of government-approved standard of equality is censorship. I doubt you're a big supporter of the Fairness Doctrine, how is this any different?

[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;28510404]Oh and "you need pills" is the strangest insult I ever heard but since I do take pills (like half about half of america) I guess its just a reminder to get my glass of water.[/QUOTE] Don't take too much offense to it, i think religious people who state their beliefs as fact need medication too. [editline]e[/editline] [QUOTE=SigmaLambda;28510459]uhh your political beliefs aren't based on facts?[/quote] Nobodies political beliefs are factual and infallible. For the most part political orientation is based on external factors and are developed through personal bias, all political beliefs including my own. You can make arguments that your system is better, more logical depending on what is most important to you but what you hold sacred other people don't give a shit about so in the end, no, not really. [QUOTE=SigmaLambda;28510459] not if you're a normal-ass human being who prefers one system of beliefs to another. teachers and students aren't robots who can be programmed to treat everything equally and let me reiterate that you characterizing colleges as "TEACHING LIBERALISM" is way off base. most people in college, professors included, are liberal, and open about it, but there are still standards of conduct and curriculum, it's not just rampant conservative hunting forcing teachers to alter their curriculum in order to adhere to some sort of government-approved standard of equality is censorship. I doubt you're a big supporter of the Fairness Doctrine, how is this any different?[/QUOTE] I didn't say i wanted the government to implement any standards, although public money does go to some of those schools so in most people's eyes they should be fully entitled to. I'm not a big fan of government regulation or overbearing policies, i don't want the government to step in and control anything which is usually why i use the word "should" when i suggest that things should be another way. People don't need to be robots to actually teach people, you can give them liberal literature and reading assignments but mix it up, when asking them to write don't give them specific instructions on who to discredit or what opinions are invalid and why, leave it open to interpretation. That's all I'm asking.

They haven't made anti-religion pills yet. I guess a lot of adderall might shut them up a little though.

[QUOTE=s0beit;28510479]when asking them to write don't give them specific instructions on who to discredit or what opinions are invalid and why, leave it open to interpretation. That's all I'm asking.[/QUOTE] this really doesn't happen as much as internet blogs would have you believe. all professors I've had have taken a "there are no wrong analyses (so long as your analysis isn't outright crazy or offensive)" stance when it comes to critical thinking. there are a few teachers who might explicitly push a single viewpoint, but people like that exist in every institution

[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;28487385]College voters, in other words, [b]educated[/b] people tend to become more liberal while they go through the school system. The Democratic party taps into this enthusiasm of youth and apparently are trying to take that out.[/QUOTE] Some of this sounds about right but I wouldn't say they're more educated since a lot of Republican voters have been to and graduated from college already.

a lot, maybe, but still not "more than" so "tend to be" is an appropriate description

So what if college kids are liberal, conservatives got all the fucking old people. Seriously, fuck old people.

but pvtcupcakes old people are a treasure to be cherished and have lots of life wisdom

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;28511569]but pvtcupcakes old people are a treasure to be cherished and have lots of life wisdom[/QUOTE] No. Fuck 'em. They get 90% of all welfare in the US and they bitch about poor people getting food stamps. Holy shit.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;28511569]but pvtcupcakes old people are a treasure to be cherished and have lots of life wisdom[/QUOTE] If only real life was like a kung fu movie. Then old people would be useful.

Well they can complain, but cutting their support seems kinda crazy.

GOP the 26th amendment would like to have a word with you.

[QUOTE=T-hunter;28487863]America is my favourite sitcom[/QUOTE] I am very glad I didn't grow up as an american. Not that Canada is perfect either... [QUOTE=Zeke129;28498167]It stems from American exceptionalism and the incessant need to be [I]different[/I] than the rest of the world, even if the only alternative is to be [I]worse[/I].[/QUOTE] Sounds about right. In fact, we Canadians do this as well, except in a slightly different way: we have this incessant need to be so different from Americans that we completely ignore what's going on in the rest of the world and drop the ball on all kinds of social, medical, and technical advancements. Everything from government funded dental care to garbage incineration to electric cars to effective treatments for Multiple Sclerosis to upgrades to the internet and wireless networks have all been held back by our government or various lobby groups... who then go on about how stupid the Americans are for not catching up to the rest of the world. Tasty tasty irony. [QUOTE=s0beit;28510176][URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8427-2005Mar28.html"][U]Second of all you're wrong, it's an amazing shift in contrast to the general populace.[/U][/URL][/QUOTE] s0beit, so far your arguing is to be commended. The other people posting here are attacking you with all the wrong reasons and sound like a bunch of gibbering assholes. That said, does it not say something about liberalism when many of America's best read, best educated, and most intelligent individuals are not supportive of America's right wing? Not that I am one to simply take the word of "experts" but coming from a country where my furthest right party is further left than your left wing party, I must express concern for the state of your country. The one group of educators in American that deeply concerns me are those involved specifically with Economics. Many of them are on the payroll of the same banks and investors who lead the world into a global economic crisis. That is a scary thought.

[QUOTE=FlakAttack;28511873] s0beit, so far your arguing is to be commended. The other people posting here are attacking you with all the wrong reasons and sound like a bunch of gibbering assholes. That said, does it not say something about liberalism when many of America's best read, best educated, and most intelligent individuals are not supportive of America's right wing? Not that I am one to simply take the word of "experts" but coming from a country where my furthest right party is further left than your left wing party, I must express concern for the state of your country. The one group of educators in American that deeply concerns me are those involved specifically with Economics. Many of them are on the payroll of the same banks and investors who lead the world into a global economic crisis. That is a scary thought.[/QUOTE] It's not that i have problems with people who are "liberal" in general, i don't. We differ on issues regarding economic policy but our social policies mesh pretty well and i generally get along with most left-leaning people i meet. The issue is one of principal and integrity, how students should be taught to think critically about everything and (when it comes to politics and philosophy anyway) form their own opinion. As far as economics i worry about that too but as Keynes said [quote]The ideas of economists and political philosophers, both when they are right and when they are wrong, are more powerful than is commonly understood. Indeed the world is ruled by little else. Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.[/quote] Of course i consider him defunct too but I'm the minority, anyway, economics is generally more complex and calculated than philosophy or politics i think. It's based on a mix equations and assumptions. It isn't an exact science and it's easier to forgive them when they're wrong. (Although they teach different schools of economics in school, sometimes bias flies around in those classrooms as well)

I will agree universities should be unbias, this goes without saying. But when you really look at the reality of things, the more higher educated you become and the more you learn about other societies and learn to accept them, the more left wing people become. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone.

[QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28512412]I will agree universities should be unbias, this goes without saying. But when you really look at the reality of things, the more higher educated you become and the more you learn about other societies and learn to accept them, the more left wing people become. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone.[/QUOTE] Please, do cite your scientific basis for this statement.

But are you really surprised that Universities are more Left wing? Hell, it extends to religion. A majority of professors and a large portion of uni students are Atheist. Educated people are typically more progressive.

[QUOTE=s0beit;28512190]It's not that i have problems with people who are "liberal" in general, i don't. We differ on issues regarding economic policy but our social policies mesh pretty well and i generally get along with most left-leaning people i meet. The issue is one of principal and integrity, how students should be taught to think critically about everything and (when it comes to politics and philosophy anyway) form their own opinion. As far as economics i worry about that too but as Keynes said Of course i consider him defunct too but I'm the minority, anyway, economics is generally more complex and calculated than philosophy or politics i think. It's based on a mix equations and assumptions. It isn't an exact science and it's easier to forgive them when they're wrong. (Although they teach different schools of economics in school, sometimes bias flies around in those classrooms as well)[/QUOTE] Oh by all means then, I totally agree with you. I thought once I got to college we'd stop reading out of books and start learning for a change... nope. No debate, no discussion. Just the same old shit. Honestly, I don't know why I was paying to go to college at the time, I could have learned everything I needed to write the exam from the book. You're paying for paperwork at most universities/colleges. That's it. I am more like you, socially left but economically right, and this puts me at odds with many of my fellow students. And don't even fucking talk to me about Keynesian economics, that man is part of the reason the global recession happened.

[QUOTE=s0beit;28512433]Please, do cite your scientific basis for this statement.[/QUOTE] Well, ignoring the fact conservatives tend to view with disdain on education, you really want to tell me conservatives are more educated then the Left wing in America?

[QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28512462]But are you really surprised that Universities are more Left wing? Hell, it extends to religion. A majority of professors and a large portion of uni students are Atheist. Educated people are typically more progressive.[/QUOTE] I think you're getting societal issues confused with economic issues. While it's true the political left likes to tout its tolerance, supposed understanding of other cultures and social freedom, i think the cornerstone of leftist policy is mostly governmental and economic. Last time i checked being "left" has almost nothing to do with tolerance, societies or understanding thereof. It's nice they are tolerant, understanding and all that but that's only a very little piece of a much larger picture. [QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28512514]Well, ignoring the fact conservatives tend to view with disdain on education, you really want to tell me conservatives are more educated then the Left wing in America?[/QUOTE] Wow an offensive generalization. Nice. I can see how understanding and accepting you are, it's flowing from your post.

[QUOTE=FlakAttack;28512464] And don't even fucking talk to me about Keynesian economics, that man is part of the reason the global recession happened.[/QUOTE] Actually, not at all. Deregulation and letting the private sector roam free is most of the reason why the global recession happened.

[QUOTE=s0beit;28512433]Please, do cite your scientific basis for this statement.[/QUOTE] Well liberals on average do have higher IQs and people with higher IQs tend to go to college.

[QUOTE=s0beit;28512529]I think you're getting societal issues confused with economic issues. While it's true the political left likes to tout its tolerance, supposed understanding of other cultures and social freedom, i think the cornerstone of leftist policy is mostly governmental and economic. Last time i checked being "left" has almost nothing to do with tolerance, societies or understanding thereof. It's nice they are tolerant, understanding and all that but that's only a very little piece of a much larger picture.[/quote] How is it governmental? It encompasses many topics. Social AND Economic. [quote]Wow an offensive generalization. Nice. I can see how understanding and accepting you are, it's flowing from your post.[/QUOTE] Don't bother responding, that's cool. And the sad truth is, it's not really a generalisation when Conservatives haven't really proven otherwise. [editline]9th March 2011[/editline] Lets see, the entirety of the representation of the Republican Party is batshit. I find it hard to find any Republican representative with any form of integrity. The Tea party movement is batshit. The Conservative mouth pieces are batshit. Ahuge influx of conservatives who type feverishly on the internet are batshit. [editline]9th March 2011[/editline] when presented with this massive amount of nutcases, it sends up red flags.

[QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28512587]How is it governmental? It encompasses many topics. Social AND Economic. [/quote] Alright? Libertarians support societal freedom too, big whoop. The real issue is the role of government in the lives of citizens, there's a fork in the road at economic and government policy when it comes between the two. That's about it. [QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28512587] Don't bother responding, that's cool. [/quote] I did respond, you made a generalization and portrayed it as fact, want me to give you a cookie? [QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28512587] And the sad truth is, it's not really a generalisation when Conservatives haven't really proven otherwise. [/quote] You made the claim, Mister "educated", you have to present the evidence. [QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28512587] Lets see, the entirety of the representation of the Republican Party is batshit. I find it hard to find any Republican representative with any form of integrity. The Tea party movement is batshit. The Conservative mouth pieces are batshit. Ahuge influx of conservatives who type feverishly on the internet are batshit. [editline]9th March 2011[/editline] when presented with this massive amount of nutcases, it sends up red flags.[/QUOTE] Tons of offensive generalizations about people you've likely never met, you win. [QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28512540]Actually, not at all. Deregulation and letting the private sector roam free is most of the reason why the global recession happened.[/QUOTE] It's cute how you're so wrong

[QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28512412]I will agree universities should be unbias, this goes without saying. But when you really look at the reality of things, the more higher educated you become and the more you learn about other societies and learn to accept them, the more left wing people become. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone.[/QUOTE] College makes people socially liberal at the very least. Dunno about economically liberal.