Even Al-Qaeda thinks the ISIS is fucking insane [NSFW in source]

[Unclejimmema]

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;45097656]Here's the problem;

[IMG]http://i57.tinypic.com/ifqrkm.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

It wouldn't be quite like that. This isn't an insurgency where the enemy is trying to blend in with the locals. They're being pretty open on who they are and what they're doing.

[Thomo_UK]

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;45097656]Here's the problem;

[IMG]http://i57.tinypic.com/ifqrkm.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Then you pick the ones not next to civilians, they aren't blending in, they're on the war path, and as soon as anyone starts to fast-air those assholes they will be hiding away quick sharp among the civilian populace, some may even disarm because they're getting hammered, but here's to hoping.

[Brandy92]

[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;45097637]No but we did last 10+ years after his execution and still nothing[/QUOTE]

It takes more than 10 years to fix a country sandwiched between others which have competing beliefs and world views. Not to mention practically bankruptcy.

[Samiam]

I wonder what will actually be done about these guys

Hopefully they meet an explosive end but I'm actually concerned a whole lot of nothing will end up happening.

[Tinter]

[QUOTE=Kanshi;45097481]:saddowns:

Not saying ISIS isn't scum, but you are all acting barbaric, the only difference is these guys have the balls to do it and you're crying for someone else to.

ISIS Al Queda Taliban, all created with war and political games, if you think these tactics will work to repress them you are wrong.

This can only be solved with peace and as disgusted as you are by this you cannot loose your humanity. Your opinion holds more power than you realize just by being born in the country you live in(such as first world)

Do not be blood thirsty, killing them is not the only way, and you can not save the innocent people who die by killing more.[/QUOTE]

While it feels incredibly wrong to say this, if we cannot argue with them, a war is justified. They're committing genocide, hurting innocent civilians. They need to be stopped. Of course if we could stop them through peaceful means, it'd be 100& the preferred method, but my pessimistic views finds that very unlikely.

[Thlis]

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;45097656]Here's the problem;

[IMG]http://i57.tinypic.com/ifqrkm.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Obviously we need to apply more drones. Sniper rifle drones.

[MR2]

[QUOTE=Sir_takeslot;45095481]That Saleel Sawarim video was enough to convince me that they're pigs.

[URL="http://ia801509.us.archive.org/18/items/al_saleel_4/SaleelSawarim.mp4"][B][I]NSFW AS FUCK[/I][/B][/URL][/QUOTE]

Ugh. My stomach's not doing too good.

[niel12_5D]

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;45097497]For anyone ever wondering, this is why I joined the military; to stop these kind of animals. They are not people[/QUOTE]

Fighting with various military is how these people got so trained and desensitized to violence.
It's a testament to human inability to comprehend simple logic; how can you expect a group of people to respond to ideological outside violence with anything except outside violence.

None of their tactics, equipment, and weapons were created in Iraq; most of them aren't even from Iraq.

[CuppethCake]

That video was hard to watch... I actually feel sick. I regret watching the entire thing.

[Pilot1215]

Support the Iranians and Iraqi's from the air and Look into who is funding these guys, keep hearing something about the Saudi's, which wouldn't exactly surprise me. I would say to carpet bomb, except Carpet bombing is only a good psychological weapon, and groups like this have shown they can turn that fear we spread into ammo. Essentially by carpet bombing we could be creating more militants, kind like how we do with drone strikes. We left Iraq without really much support. This was literally bound to happen, they don't have much of air support, and their army wasn't really that good, and they haven't really faced militants like this. ISIS is also one of the reasons why Syria has went so badly, they were practically killing everyone who wasn't a radical. The rebel groups who had a legitimate concern with the Syrian government also have problems with ISIS who has killed some of their leaders, and just full on attacked them.

[Unclejimmema]

[QUOTE=niel12_5D;45097877]Fighting with various military is how these people got so trained and desensitized to violence.
It's a testament to human inability to comprehend simple logic; how can you expect a group of people to respond to ideological outside violence with anything except outside violence.

None of their tactics, equipment, and weapons were created in Iraq; most of them aren't even from Iraq.[/QUOTE]

There's a difference between being desensitized to violence and committing atrocities. I've personally seen people with their heads smashed wide open. It doesn't bring me to tears anymore, it doesn't make me feel sorry anymore. With that being said do you think I would go out and do that? Just because I've seen enough to make your average person puke doesn't mean I can't tell right from wrong, and it doesn't make the anger I feel over seeing such senseless murder against innocent people go away. Desensitization does not make one a monster, and it is not required to behead and torture people to defeat an enemy. Blaming desensitization on their tactics is like blameing guns and knives for murderers. Sure they make killinga lot easier, but it still take a conscious effort to pull a trigger or swing a blade.

[niel12_5D]

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;45098005]There's a difference between being desensitized to violence and committing atrocities. I've personally seen people with their heads smashed wide open. It doesn't bring me to tears anymore, it doesn't make me feel sorry anymore. With that being said do you think I would go out and do that? Just because I've seen enough to make your average person puke doesn't mean I can't tell right from wrong, and it doesn't make the anger I feel over seeing such senseless murder against innocent people go away. Desensitization does not make one a monster, and it is not required to behead and torture people to defeat an enemy. Blaming desensitization on their tactics is like blameing guns and knives for murderers. Sure they make killinga lot easier, but it still take a conscious effort to pull a trigger or swing a blade.[/QUOTE]

Desensitization to violence is the requirement to become a function of any apparatus to perform violence. Look at that video on the first page, it's almost like a bad videogame with the extra sounds and gunshots and scope overlays.

I don't think you'd smash peoples heads open or commit atrocities by yourself, but what if the rules and orders of the apparatus you serve are so dysfunctional and formless that the only way you can enact authority is via complete violence? Let's not pretend the US Military is somehow not ideologically capable of horrifying violence.

Nazi's, Japanese troops, the Americans at the My Lai Massacre, Abu Ghraib; none of them or at least not most of them involved would say "Yes I am a monster and I wanted to kill people". That's too simple and turns killing and massacres into this other-world phenomenon.

This is what Lacan would call False Consciousness. As in you think you're enacting the will of god or following your desires or fighting for Islam when in reality you are simply enacting the present ideology with the dysfunctional apparatus of the proliferation of weapons and support from outside governments behind you as a form of violent patriarchal authority.

It's not "can you tell right from wrong"; it's the question of "at what point does right and wrong fail to be meaningful distinctions"; where you think you are enacting what is right by doing things you absolutely know are wrong.

[smurfy]

I want us to think about ISIS the same way we think about Nazi Germany.

When we look back, we don't just say 'Germans voted Hitler into power because they were a subhuman cancerous disgusting virus that deserved to be annihilated'. We recognise that Hitler took advantage of the shit economy with everyone looking for someone to blame, and he convinced everyone that it was all because of the Jews and the Allies and the Communists, and everyone just went along with it because it sounded great.

And now when someone comes along in the middle of a recession saying it's all because of the immigrants and the minorities, we say hey you sound like fucking Hitler, shut the fuck up. We've learned not to go down that path because we know that people just like us got seduced by that way of thinking in the past, and we know exactly where it leads.

No one argues that Nazi Germany should have just been reasoned with and treated nicely. But after the war, if we'd just have said 'well no normal human being could ever have done what they did' then we wouldn't have learned a single thing.

ISIS need to have their shit wrecked militarily just like Nazi Germany. But if we refuse to see that they're people just like us, then we'll never work out why they think it's okay to do the atrocious things that they do, and we won't learn anything about how to stamp out disgusting ideas like theirs for good.

[Unclejimmema]

[QUOTE=niel12_5D;45098159]Desensitization to violence is the requirement to become a function of any apparatus to perform violence. Look at that video on the first page, it's almost like a bad videogame with the extra sounds and gunshots and scope overlays.

I don't think you'd smash peoples heads open or commit atrocities by yourself, but what if the rules and orders of the apparatus you serve are so dysfunctional and formless that the only way you can enact authority is via complete violence? Let's not pretend the US Military is somehow not ideologically capable of horrifying violence.

Nazi's, Japanese troops, the Americans at the My Lai Massacre, Abu Ghraib; none of them orsituation not most of them involved would say "Yes I am a monster and I wanted to kill people". That's too simple and turns killing and massacres into this other-world phenomenon.

This is what Lacan would call False Consciousness. As in you think you're enacting the will of god or following your desires or fighting for Islam when in reality you are simply enacting the present ideology with the dysfunctional apparatus of the proliferation of weapons and support from outside governments behind you as a form of violent patriarchal authority.

It's not "can you tell right from wrong"; it's the question of "at what point does right and wrong fail to be meaningful distinctions"; where you think you are enacting what is right by doing things you absolutely know are wrong.[/QUOTE]

Of course one must become desensitized in order to commit acts of violence. The Nazis and Japanize did not need violence in order to enact complete and total authority. To imply that killing Jews and raping and killing Chinese were needed to effect authority is nonsense. It's a perfect example of an ideology running amuck, and even then there were those still saw what they were doing was wrong.

At no point was there ever a need to senselessly kill in order to assert authority, Most people will accept it when there's a gun pointed to their heads.

Mai Lai was completing different situation, as in it was not based in an ideology. An explination to such is beyond what I would be able to convey, and quite frankly an explication to such is far more complicated to explain than simply " orders" or anger

[Skarphedinn]

[QUOTE=smurfy;45098170]I want us to think about ISIS the same way we think about Nazi Germany.

When we look back, we don't just say 'Germans voted Hitler into power because they were a subhuman cancerous disgusting virus that deserved to be annihilated'. We recognise that Hitler took advantage of the shit economy with everyone looking for someone to blame, and he convinced everyone that it was all because of the Jews and the Allies and the Communists, and everyone just went along with it because it sounded great.

And now when someone comes along in the middle of a recession saying it's all because of the immigrants and the minorities, we say hey you sound like fucking Hitler, shut the fuck up. We've learned not to go down that path because we know that people just like us got seduced by that way of thinking in the past, and we know exactly where it leads.

No one argues that Nazi Germany should have just been reasoned with and treated nicely. But after the war, if we'd just have said 'well no normal human being could ever have done what they did' then we wouldn't have learned a single thing.

ISIS need to have their shit wrecked militarily just like Nazi Germany. But if we refuse to see that they're people just like us, then we'll never work out why they think it's okay to do the atrocious things that they do, and we won't learn anything about how to stamp out disgusting ideas like theirs for good.[/QUOTE]

The problem with this is that there was normal people in Nazi Germany. The Wehrmacht had no idea of the eradication of the Jews, etc etc. And weren't punished after Nazi Germany fell, the SS and those higher ups had been punished.

The problem with this, is the ISIS is all SS. They all know what they're doing and they like it.

[niel12_5D]

I didn't make myself clear, it's not authority by the state but authority by the Nazi ideology that needed to be asserted, the ideology of German idealism and nationalism mixing with antisemitism.

And I would argue that My Lai was based upon ideology which occurred when the ideology of the incursion of Vietnam mixed with anti-Vietnamese ideas and got mixed up with ineffective poor planning instigated by a group of soldiers who were only enacting what they were ideologically trained to do.

No military can function without installing into its soldiers an ideological compulsion to do what is considered the duty or greater good by the means of things they know are bad.

[editline]13th June 2014[/editline]

[QUOTE=Sir_takeslot;45098425]The problem with this is that there was normal people in Nazi Germany. The Wehrmacht had no idea of the eradication of the Jews, etc etc.[/QUOTE]

This is absolute nonsense, the SS were normal people in Nazi Germany. The only difference is that they were put into a position where the killing of Jews was the only meaningful enactment of their authority that they had.

[Griff]

I really can't wait to see the USA, Iran, Peshmerga, Turkey, and what's left of the Iraqi military to all join forces to fight these guys.

[Thomo_UK]

[QUOTE=niel12_5D;45098438]I didn't make myself clear, it's not authority by the state but authority by the Nazi ideology that needed to be asserted, the ideology of German idealism and nationalism mixing with antisemitism.

And I would argue that My Lai was based upon ideology which occurred when the ideology of the incursion of Vietnam mixed with anti-Vietnamese ideas and got mixed up with ineffective poor planning instigated by a group of soldiers who were only enacting what they were ideologically trained to do.

No military can function without installing into its soldiers an ideological compulsion to do what is considered the duty or greater good by the means of things they know are bad.

[editline]13th June 2014[/editline]

This is absolute nonsense, the SS were normal people in Nazi Germany. The only difference is that they were put into a position where the killing of Jews was the only meaningful enactment of their authority that they had.[/QUOTE]

Pretty sure the SS were of a higher cut of society than your average German folk. Usually with power and wealth of some form.

Normal people is a bit of generalization.

[Unclejimmema]

[QUOTE=niel12_5D;45098438]I didn't make myself clear, it's not authority by the state but authority by the Nazi ideology that needed to be asserted, the ideology of German idealism and nationalism mixing with antisemitism.

And I would argue that My Lai was based upon ideology which occurred when the ideology of the incursion of Vietnam mixed with anti-Vietnamese ideas and got mixed up with ineffective poor planning instigated by a group of soldiers who were only enacting what they were ideologically trained to do.

No military can function without installing into its soldiers an ideological compulsion to do what is considered the duty or greater good by the means of things they know are bad.

[editline]13th June 2014[/editline]

This is absolute nonsense, the SS were normal people in Nazi Germany. The only difference is that they were put into a position where the killing of Jews was the only meaningful enactment of their authority that they had.[/QUOTE]

For one, when the US went to war with Nazi Germany we weren't going there to save the Jews. We didn't even know about the genocide until we stumbled onto the camps.

Two, the SS killings Jews was not done out of the only meaningful enactment of their authority. The SS weren't your average German citizens jumping into a uniform. They fully believed in the ideology presented by Himmler, which arguably was the most extreme stance on what Hitler brought about. These were people who firmly believed in what they did, and quite honestly I cannot see what purpose the holocaust may have had in terms of political agenda other than as a way of killing off the scapegoat.

While anti-semitism was promoted by the Nazis, it by no means truly represented what the people of Germany really believed let alone your average soldier.

As said before, ISIS is more or less an entire movement of SS. These aren't conscripts or people without an option other than joining in the violence, they fully believe in what they're doing.

[hypno-toad]

[QUOTE=Griffster26;45098458]I really can't wait to see the USA, Iran, Peshmerga, Turkey, and what's left of the Iraqi military to all join forces to fight these guys.[/QUOTE]

Honestly the maximum commitment likely for the US at this point is just drone strikes against ISIS munitions and vehicles. The Iraq war pushed your debt into absurd levels, a ground war is probably completely out of the question.

[Griff]

[QUOTE=Matthew0505;45098471]The ISIS seems more like a giant Dirlewanger Brigade than Nazi Germany.[/QUOTE]

I see ISIS more as the Croatian Ustase than the Nazis

The Nazis were horrified at the things the Ustase did to Bosniaks, Jews, Romani, and Serbs at Jasenovac.

[niel12_5D]

[QUOTE=Thomo_UK;45098505]Pretty sure the SS were of a higher cut of society than your average German folk. Usually with power and wealth of some form.

Normal people is a bit of generalization.[/QUOTE]

I assumed by normal people you meant neurotypical Hans, not proletariat.

[editline]13th June 2014[/editline]

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;45098522]For one, when the US went to war with Nazi Germany we weren't going there to save the Jews. We didn't even know about the genocide until we stumbled onto the camps.[/QUOTE]

What does that have to do with anything I said?

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;45098522]Two, the SS killings Jews was not done out of the only meaningful enactment of their authority. The SS weren't your average German citizens jumping into a uniform. They fully believed in the ideology presented by Himmler, which arguably was the most extreme stance on what Hitler brought about. These were people who firmly believed in what they did, and quite honestly I cannot see what purpose the holocaust may have had in terms of political agenda other than as a way of killing off the scapegoat.[/QUOTE]

I think, and maybe I'm wrong here, it's too simple to say "they fully believed in what they were doing and they were monsters who loved killing".

What if the opposite is true in that they didn't believe in it themselves but did it because that is what was expected of them and they became desensitized to violence.

It's an old anecdote about how in Japan during the imperial incursions into China, the religious Zen Buddhist leaders justified the cruel killing by saying to the soldiers that no, it's not they are swinging their sword into the head of a Chinese person. It's that the sword fell into motion and by the agnostic movement of the forces in the universe a Chinese person happened to be caught in it.

I think I'm a nice person but if I was a male in an SS outfit raised with the nationalism and idealism that Germany was proliferated with in the 20's I don't think I could honestly tell you I wouldn't at least be complicit in some horrible acts.

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;45098522]While anti-semitism was promoted by the Nazis, it by no means truly represented what the people of Germany really believed let alone your average soldier. [/QUOTE]

What is truly believed by the population and what is only nominally believed by the population are semantic distinctions. A belief is a belief because it functions regardless of what people actually think.

[Polonium9]

Please, Bashar, kill those dumbfucks.

[Zaya]

Unfortunately if the US decides to intervene then it will be a target of these dogs, and unlike Al Qaeda these dogs are trained, well armed, and well financed.

There may be terror attacks on the scope of 9/11 if US decides to intervene.

[EmperorScorpious]

[QUOTE=OvB;45097471]Wouldn't it be crazy to have a whole county or two ran by a unified group of thugs and murderers? Holy fuck, what century is this again?[/QUOTE]

I've always been perplexed by statements like this. What makes everyone think that somehow, someway, the present day human being is any different from a century, two century, two thousand centuries ago?

We still have wars, we still have murders, rapes, plunders, ideologies, dictators and tyrants.

What makes you believe that the people around you and I are somehow different, better, superior than the people 50, 100, 1000, or 10,000 years ago?

[editline]13th June 2014[/editline]

[QUOTE=smurfy;45098170]I want us to think about ISIS the same way we think about Nazi Germany.

When we look back, we don't just say 'Germans voted Hitler into power because they were a subhuman cancerous disgusting virus that deserved to be annihilated'. We recognise that Hitler took advantage of the shit economy with everyone looking for someone to blame, and he convinced everyone that it was all because of the Jews and the Allies and the Communists, and everyone just went along with it because it sounded great.

And now when someone comes along in the middle of a recession saying it's all because of the immigrants and the minorities, we say hey you sound like fucking Hitler, shut the fuck up. We've learned not to go down that path because we know that people just like us got seduced by that way of thinking in the past, and we know exactly where it leads.

No one argues that Nazi Germany should have just been reasoned with and treated nicely. But after the war, if we'd just have said 'well no normal human being could ever have done what they did' then we wouldn't have learned a single thing.

ISIS need to have their shit wrecked militarily just like Nazi Germany. But if we refuse to see that they're people just like us, then we'll never work out why they think it's okay to do the atrocious things that they do, and we won't learn anything about how to stamp out disgusting ideas like theirs for good.[/QUOTE]

Hitler wasn't elected. He lost his only election he ran in. Then he and his party made such a fuss that he was appointed into a political position that was largely ceremonial. He then strong armed all the powers of other elective bodies into his ceremonial position and made himself a dictator.

I know it's beside your point, but it seriously irks me when people say Hitler was elected.

[H11]

[QUOTE=Sir_takeslot;45095481]That Saleel Sawarim video was enough to convince me that they're pigs.

[URL="http://ia801509.us.archive.org/18/items/al_saleel_4/SaleelSawarim.mp4"][B][I]NSFW AS FUCK[/I][/B][/URL][/QUOTE]

Fucking disgusting. At one point they have multicam fatigues on, are they supposed to be impersonating US troops or something?

[Rofl_copter]

I think the ISIS is gonna walk into a bloodbath when they push into Baghdad. They have zero public support and the Iraqi army has some pretty capable forces believe it or not and I imagine they're fucking pissed.

hopefully these sf guys are the real deal:

[t]http://intercepts.defensenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/170850300-1024x6892.jpg[/t]
[t]http://groundreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Iraqi-anti-terrorism.jpg[/t]

[Pantz Master]

Why does their flag look like it was drawn by a child?

[img]http://polivereview.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/600px-flag_of_islamic_state_of_iraq-svg.gif[/img]

They can't even draw a proper circle.

[EmperorScorpious]

[QUOTE=Pantz Master;45098988]Why does their flag look like it was drawn by a child?

[img]http://polivereview.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/600px-flag_of_islamic_state_of_iraq-svg.gif[/img]

They can't even draw a proper circle.[/QUOTE]

I'm having some deja vu

[Pilot1215]

[QUOTE=Pantz Master;45098988]Why does their flag look like it was drawn by a child?

[img]http://polivereview.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/600px-flag_of_islamic_state_of_iraq-svg.gif[/img]

They can't even draw a proper circle.[/QUOTE]
Damnit, I knew that flag I made as a kid with gibberish on it was gonna come back to haunt me...