Edexcel Maths Paper: Goes Trending on Twitter - Too hard - Polidicks

[QUOTE=thisispain;47881206]The problem is kids simply aren't taught how to think about this stuff in a constructive matter. They're just drilled for tests and don't know what to do when a simple question of logic pops up. Everyone who does well in school should be good at math since continual neuro-cognitive studies show math skills light up the same areas of the brain as writing and critical thinking skills do. It's not these kids' fault they feel inadequate.[/QUOTE] Yeah, looking at the questions they are fairly straightforward if a bit wordy. If this is the concept of this exam then students should have been taught how to understand and analyse what the question is actually about. At the same time I'm not an educator, but I think having one or two out of the box questions in such an exam would be a good way to separate students even more.

[QUOTE=Jelman;47879906]Link for the paper for anyone interested: [url]https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d1vzwhll2ewybea/AABwYhl-3ymNeGB44uaxhJR0a?dl=0[/url][/QUOTE] That's probably the easiest test I've seen in years. And people are actually complaining about this? Seriously? It uses the most basic math and people are honest to god complaining? Edit: The petition page makes me lose hope in humanity.

[QUOTE=Doom64hunter;47883064]That's probably the easiest test I've seen in years. And people are actually complaining about this? Seriously? It uses the most basic math and people are honest to god complaining? Edit: The petition page makes me lose hope in humanity.[/QUOTE] It's like thisispain said, at that age you get taught the follow a process to solve something, but when something like a bit of extra words are thrown in, it isn't the same as you have learnt and you're fucked. With exam pressure and stress in the exam (this is common) it's easy to cock up on easy shit [editline]5th June 2015[/editline] The exam is fine, exam preparation isnt

I tutor lower set students in year 9 and 11 and tbh they're a mix of not behaving or trying to learn, and people who genuinely struggle. One kid I worked with, once I convinced him to, managed to complete the entire set work and extensions and have time to spare, whilst normally he wouldn't even complete half of the work, whilst some others genuinely struggled, and I feel sorry for them because their learning is disrupted. The year 11s who weren't trying were then panicking a bit when they realised they needed at least a B or a C in maths to do what they wanted to do. [editline]5th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=thisispain;47881206]The problem is kids simply aren't taught how to think about this stuff in a constructive matter. They're just drilled for tests and don't know what to do when a simple question of logic pops up. Everyone who does well in school should be good at math since continual neuro-cognitive studies show math skills light up the same areas of the brain as writing and critical thinking skills do. It's not these kids' fault they feel inadequate.[/QUOTE] The problem is also with a lot of students, who complain every time the teacher tries to do anything which is not exactly what they know to pass the tests. My year 11 teacher had a very good way of teaching our top set to not only know how to do something, but understand why you do that and how it works, however there were people who complained that they just wanted to know enough to pass the test and go. Hell, my gcse English teacher had an argument with a student about the fact that she didn't say exactly what to write in the essays. I was in further maths, discussing with my teacher how to make a game into a zero sum game and then someone just went "who cares; it's not on the syllabus" and then it came up as one of the harder questions on the mock designed to test us on our ability to approach new situations. [editline]5th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Fetret;47879601]Now this is certainly an appropriate criticism. If you do not know enough about probability calculations then it is completely understandable to find the question hard. But there is definitely nothing wrong with what the question is asking for. Thanks for clarifying that point. [editline]5th June 2015[/editline] I really want to know the answer now. Would having to carry it to my house/carry it up to my flat/having to spend energy be an acceptable answer?[/QUOTE] IIRC the answer was the environmental impact of disposing of it. Other fun answers I've heard my friends give: Suggest an issue with John's survey of his friends: His friends might take the piss (he got the mark) Suggest why the tray moves through the oven (Biology or physics, can't remember) "To provide a clean, smooth bake"

Alot of my mathematics exams, particularly geometry-related ones suffered from extremely ambiguously worded questions. Word problems should be worded in a way that requires people to deduce some form of expression or solution for it without having to carefully pick the sentence apart. People don't have time to try and get their head around some silly jumble of words like that, it just obfuscates simple questions and causes the students to become stressed or worried.

[QUOTE=thisispain;47881206]The problem is kids simply aren't taught how to think about this stuff in a constructive matter. They're just drilled for tests and don't know what to do when a simple question of logic pops up. Everyone who does well in school should be good at math since continual neuro-cognitive studies show math skills light up the same areas of the brain as writing and critical thinking skills do. It's not these kids' fault they feel inadequate.[/QUOTE] I never felt that I was taught to actually logically go through these things, it was "you do it like this but you don't need to know why". So exams ended up being a glorified memory test rather than anything useful.

[QUOTE=ijyt;47883432]I never felt that I was taught to actually logically go through these things, it was "you do it like this but you don't need to know why". So exams ended up being a glorified memory test rather than anything useful.[/QUOTE] Well of course, it's because they want the "answer". In school, you're getting trained for business and arithmetic. That's why they focus on real numbers and second-order polynomials, omitting the vast majority of mathematics which has nothing to do with numbers. The essence of mathematics lies in proofs and figuring out the logical consistency of arguments, but you can't test the validity of a proof with an answer key so schools don't even bother and just make you count things. In general people just don't give a shit about teaching it for the benefit of the students, even President Obama said the reason we should focus on math is so we can be "competitive" which is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. What a sad way to treat what is considered one of the oldest and most valuable arts around today.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;47879023]But the fact that it's a stupidly-posed question does not make the techniques useless. At my work there are 64 electric golf carts and one of the chargers wasn't working. Someone I work with wanted to know the chance that the same cart would end up at the broken charger two days in a row.[/QUOTE] Zero, because you should put up an out of order sign.

[QUOTE=Code3Response;47878992]You know when people say "when are we going to use this in life" during class in school? this is type shit they're talking about. I dont care what the probably of grabbing a damn orange sweet is. If I wanted an orange sweet in a grab bag of colors I'd eat all of them anyway[/QUOTE] Yeah, learning probability is a total waste of time, it doesn't impact anyone's life in the slightest. Excuse me while I go buy a few dozen lotto tickets and invest all my savings in the horse races. (also probability is extremely important for understanding life-relevant statistics like 'who's going to win the next election' or 'how concerned should I be about getting robbed in my neighborhood')

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;47879316]How's it a word salad? The wording that OP used is about as plain as it gets. After that it's simple probability.[/QUOTE] [quote]The chance of her getting two orange sweets is 1/3.[/quote] If she does... what exactly? (in this case you have to guess she's picking two random sweets). Instead of completing the sentence they throw in a polynomial just to freak people out. That's not a good test.

[QUOTE=Turnips5;47878721]P(choose two oranges) = 6/n * 5/(n-1) = 1/3 => 30/(n^2 - n) = 1/3 90 = n^2 - n n^2 - n - 90 = 0 take that, 16 year olds[/QUOTE] I honestly don't get it. What's going on there, in layman's terms?

[QUOTE=UberMensch;47883757]I honestly don't get it. What's going on there, in layman's terms?[/QUOTE] There are n sweets total, with 6 of them being orange, therefore the probability of him picking an orange sweet is 6 chances in n sweets, or 6/n. Once you take an orange sweet out, there are 5 orange sweets, and one less than n, or n-1 total sweets. Thus the probability of pulling out an orange sweet are 5/(n-1). The probability of both events occurring is the probabilities of each event occurring multiplied together, and thus this is 6/n * 5/(n-1). This is equal to 1/3, as stated in the question. 6/n*5/(n-1) multiplies out to give 30/(n(n-1)) which goes to 30/(n^2-n) Make it equal to 1/3 30/(n^2-n)=1/3 Now it is awkward to have ns on the bottom, so you multiply both sides by the (n^2-n) to give 30=(n^2-n)/3 And you can get rid of the /3 but multiplying both sides by 3 90=n^2-n And then you subtract 90 so that it equals 0 (relevant if you want to solve the equation to find the possible values of n) 0=n^2-n-90

It's odd. I used to be a beast at math but I don't even understand the question. Language barriers I guess, that and exercises vary a lot from wgat I see.

[QUOTE=UberMensch;47883757]I honestly don't get it. What's going on there, in layman's terms?[/QUOTE] For the first bit, you know that you have 6 orange sweets and n sweets in total. You also know that the odds of picking 2 orange sweets out is 1/3. Now to simulate a chance of picking a sweet, we can say this. When you take one sweet, the probability of it being orange is going to be [B]6/n[/B], as you have a 6 in however many sweets chance. If you were to take another sweet after that, you will have 5 orange sweets in the packet, and you also know that the total number of sweets, n, will have 1 subtracted from it, as there is one less sweet in the packet. So, if you were to simulate the second pick, the probability of it being orange is [B]5 / (n-1)[/B] Now, you want to combine these two. When dealing with the odds of getting the first event (pick an orange sweet from a pack) [B]and [/B]the second event (another orange sweet) then you multiply. So: 6/n multiplied by 5/(n-1) is equal to 1/3. Now for some rearranging, which I've written down. [t]http://i.imgur.com/lwqNPgE.jpg[/t] Sorry it's messy, I can't write for shit. Also that's what i get for not refreshing a half hour old tab, someone else does it for you!

[QUOTE=Terminutter;47883874]-probably a better explanation-[/QUOTE] Dw, the only word that was almost too messy for me to read was 'neatness' :v:

[QUOTE=glitchvid;47880814]This is unsettling, I used to be able to do this stuff way super easy, but in the last 4 months I've forgotten everything math related.[/QUOTE] Math skills are like any skills/physical fitness. If you don't exercize them regularly, you'll slowly lose them. The good news is we live in an era when you can find infinite numbers of practice questions on almost every conceivable subject at the click of a button. It's probably not the most compelling activity, but it's worth it just for keeping your skills up

Oh god, reading some of the posts in this thread makes me feel like an absolute retard. I excel in other portions of schooling just fine, and I'm actually almost double-over my required credits for social studies (taking classes at local community college + HS work) But math just doesn't click with me. I just can't get my mind around some of the simplest shit. 8th graders surpass me. It takes me 10 minutes what the average freshman can do in 2. These questions that you guys are just going "Well it's simple XYZ" looks like fucking swahili to me. And it doesn't help to be in a home with a physicist sister, an entemologist sister, an engineer mom and dad, who all expect me to be at the level with them when it comes to math skills. It just doesn't click with me [I]at all.[/I]

[QUOTE=thisispain;47883531]Well of course, it's because they want the "answer". In school, you're getting trained for business and arithmetic. That's why they focus on real numbers and second-order polynomials, omitting the vast majority of mathematics which has nothing to do with numbers. The essence of mathematics lies in proofs and figuring out the logical consistency of arguments, but you can't test the validity of a proof with an answer key so schools don't even bother and just make you count things. In general people just don't give a shit about teaching it for the benefit of the students, even President Obama said the reason we should focus on math is so we can be "competitive" which is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. What a sad way to treat what is considered one of the oldest and most valuable arts around today.[/QUOTE] I'm in a STEM program, and IMO while there should absolutely be more advanced programs and the like for students who will pursue a STEM degree, I don't really think there's that much utility in understanding mathematical reasoning for the non-STEM layman.

[QUOTE=CapellanCitizen;47884136]I'm in a STEM program, and IMO while there should absolutely be more advanced programs and the like for students who will pursue a STEM degree, I don't really think there's that much utility in understanding mathematical reasoning for the non-STEM layman.[/QUOTE] The problem is that people tend not to know what they're going to do until at least A level, so until then you need to keep doors open.

[QUOTE=Turnips5;47878721]P(choose two oranges) = 6/n * 5/(n-1) = 1/3 => 30/(n^2 - n) = 1/3 90 = n^2 - n n^2 - n - 90 = 0 take that, 16 year olds[/QUOTE] Literally one person in my class got that and we're top set [editline]5th June 2015[/editline] This EdexcelMaths thing is stupid anyway, I hate it when stuff like this starts trending. It just really feels off to me, no idea why but it just comes across as silly imo

The GCSE maths papers when I did them usually had a question that threw you off at the end. I remember a year 10 one or whatever talking about circle areas and if you used the area of a circle at all in the question you'd get the answer incorrect Because it was about cutting circles out of a square sheet and logic dictates that you can't use the leftover pieces of area after cutting circles out to somehow cut out another circle through witchcraft

No love for the sixth formers? The Edexcel AS papers were just as much of a clusterfuck.

Sometimes I sit at my job and I think "You know, I miss school. It was fun." And then I see shit like this and I'm instantly happy that shit is over.

[QUOTE=Jelman;47879906]Link for the paper for anyone interested: [url]https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d1vzwhll2ewybea/AABwYhl-3ymNeGB44uaxhJR0a?dl=0[/url][/QUOTE] What grade is that for by the way, because that seems too simple to me.

[QUOTE=CapellanCitizen;47884113] The good news is we live in an era when you can find infinite numbers of practice questions on almost every conceivable subject at the click of a button. It's probably not the most compelling activity, but it's worth it just for keeping your skills up[/QUOTE] I do best when I have a tutor who can help me with my dumb mistakes, over the last summer I forgot basically everything back to pre-alg, and relearned most up to pre-calc by going to Sylvan. unfortunately I just graduated highschool so I don't really get to do Sylvan again; despite needing fairly in depth geometry knowledge to do what I want to do.

[QUOTE=Ceil;47885402]What grade is that for by the way, because that seems too simple to me.[/QUOTE] Top Grades so A*

[QUOTE=Darth_Kris;47880036]As well as the question to somehow add new functionality to a single bloody piece, somehow in a single procedure that I swear doesn't even have anything to do with the capturing mechanic. Don't get me started on the FEN crap. Literally nothing to do with the shit I was told to practise. And then in COMP2 there was a random out the fucking nowhere question on whether we think that computers will achieve the same level of intelligence as a human[/QUOTE] You were told to study IO as part of the course. Granted I fucked up that question I should have been about to do it

[QUOTE=Ceil;47885402]What grade is that for by the way, because that seems too simple to me.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Jelman;47885856]Top Grades so A*[/QUOTE] He may mean what year, this is in year 11 in the UK; 15-16 year olds. Apparently that's grade 10 in the US.

[QUOTE=Jelman;47885856]Top Grades so A*[/QUOTE] No I mean grade as in the age of kids taking in. Like Grade 5 Grade 6 Etc. It is probably different in there than where I live.

[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;47883359]I tutor lower set students in year 9 and 11 and tbh they're a mix of not behaving or trying to learn, and people who genuinely struggle. One kid I worked with, once I convinced him to, managed to complete the entire set work and extensions and have time to spare, whilst normally he wouldn't even complete half of the work, whilst some others genuinely struggled, and I feel sorry for them because their learning is disrupted. The year 11s who weren't trying were then panicking a bit when they realised they needed at least a B or a C in maths to do what they wanted to do. [editline]5th June 2015[/editline] The problem is also with a lot of students, who complain every time the teacher tries to do anything which is not exactly what they know to pass the tests. My year 11 teacher had a very good way of teaching our top set to not only know how to do something, but understand why you do that and how it works, however there were people who complained that they just wanted to know enough to pass the test and go. Hell, my gcse English teacher had an argument with a student about the fact that she didn't say exactly what to write in the essays. I was in further maths, discussing with my teacher how to make a game into a zero sum game and then someone just went "who cares; it's not on the syllabus" and then it came up as one of the harder questions on the mock designed to test us on our ability to approach new situations. [/QUOTE] This post reminded me of our horrible maths teacher. Instead of teaching, she'd shout 90% of the class, and whenever you were called to the board and didn't know the answer, you were shouted at and made fun of in front of the whole class and called stupid for not knowing it. Also you didn't do your homework because you forgot? Or maybe because you had no fucking idea how to do it because you weren't taught? (like me) Have fun getting shouted at in front of everyone, get an F, maybe get a call home, and then see her after class. Education is Hungary is so fucking fucked up, i'm glad i'm not in school anymore.