Zero Tolerance = Zero Intelligence: Student Suspended For Knife In Father's Car - Polidicks

[QUOTE=mobrockers;44043462]How can anyone say with a straight face the US doesn't have a gun violence problem when 'lockdown' drills to practice procedure during a shooting are considered normal.[/QUOTE] Uh, they happen rarely. Lockdown does not have to even be related to shooting type offenses. Good example is a criminal got away from police in my area and was walking towards a school zone. School went on lockdown because they didn't want the criminal to use the school as a hiding place. It better to have drill for things and be ready then not to be. By your logic we must have a fire problem within our schools seeing as they do fire drills regularly.

[QUOTE=dai;44043496]we also had regular tornado drills, fire drills, and twice a year practiced getting into an atomic bunker at my school, doesn't say much other than people like the little sense of security to quell the paranoid delusion that things are extremely likely to happen to you[/QUOTE] Why did you have to practice getting into an atomic bunker twice a year.

Just one of the many screwed up things in America.

[QUOTE=Protocol7;44043483]I had plenty of random lockdowns in high school, and this was well before the Aurora theater shooting and Sandy Hook. Regardless, school and public mass shootings are statistically irrelevant to the "gun violence problem." Shut up with this crap.[/QUOTE] I'm not saying the occurrence of mass shootings are any sign of a gun violence problem.

[QUOTE=mobrockers;44043515]Why did you have to practice getting into an atomic bunker twice a year.[/QUOTE] Probably leftover procedure from a point in time where the world was very afraid of nuclear war. Bomb drills were extremely common in the US just a couple decades ago. I mean, shit, remember the "Duck! And Cover!" infomercials from the mid 1900s? With the turtle dude saying "Remember kids, when you see the flash, what are you gonna do?" ~Duck! And Cover!~

[QUOTE=Lord Fear;44043467]I know that. But it was mean to show that the whole "Innocent before proven guilty" thing is higher than just the US Justice Department.[/QUOTE] It kinda isn't really. Which is also why the international treaties explicitly often mention penal or criminal issues as opposed to administrative for instance. Where this standard doesn't completely apply. For instance bad parking fines are usually in the scope of admin law and as such IUPG doesn't work for them. You need to prove you didn't commit the act as opposed to the other side proving you committed the act - at least in quite a few countries.

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;44043620]Probably leftover procedure from a point in time where the world was very afraid of nuclear war. Bomb drills were extremely common in the US just a couple decades ago. I mean, shit, remember the "Duck! And Cover!" infomercials from the mid 1900s? With the turtle dude saying "Remember kids, when you see the flash, what are you gonna do?" ~Duck! And Cover!~[/QUOTE] No, I don't. I don't see how I could've I'm not from the US :v: [editline]25th February 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=MR-X;44043514]Uh, they happen rarely. Lockdown does not have to even be related to shooting type offenses. Good example is a criminal got away from police in my area and was walking towards a school zone. School went on lockdown because they didn't want the criminal to use the school as a hiding place. It better to have drill for things and be ready then not to be. By your logic we must have a fire problem within our schools seeing as they do fire drills regularly.[/QUOTE] Fires happen regularly and thus you have drills in case it happens. Shootings do not happen regularly (here).

Meanwhile in Texas, my school lets us carry pocket knives openly.

What's next? will they suspend students for having knives in their kitchen at home?

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44043698]What's next? will they suspend students for having knives in their kitchen at home?[/QUOTE] Random home searches during lockdown drills. :v:

[QUOTE=mobrockers;44043602]I'm not saying the occurrence of mass shootings are any sign of a gun violence problem.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=mobrockers;44043462]How can anyone say with a straight face the [B]US doesn't have a gun violence problem[/B] when 'lockdown' drills to practice procedure during a shooting are considered normal.[/QUOTE]

I keep a knife in the glove box of all the cars in my household, I don't even think about it because it's always there. I guess if I'd have had my old van searched when it was parked at school I'd have gotten in shit for having a utility knife in it then. Shit like this is stupid.

[QUOTE=dai;44043239] on a school campus you twit[/QUOTE] ok??? like half the people I know at my university carry knives or multitools for work or utility on campus and I myself have 1 in the emergency kit and 1 in my center console in my car that I park on campus every day its completely outrageous to suspend someone for having a [I]fishing knife[/I] in their car where they cant easily access it throughout the day I mean if he had a fucking machete or sword or something I could see the concern but seriously

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;44043769]I keep a knife in the glove box of all the cars in my household, I don't even think about it because it's always there. I guess if I'd have had my old van searched when it was parked at school I'd have gotten in shit for having a utility knife in it then. Shit like this is stupid.[/QUOTE] I have an EDC! Though my college campus permits any knife that isn't a switchblade and is less than 3 inches long (2.99" blade, hell yeah.) They're far more useful as tools than weapons. I would never think about using a knife violently. So much can go wrong (and I have the scars to prove it. My left index finger is permanently swollen from scar tissue.)

[QUOTE=Mio Akiyama;44043755]-quote-[/QUOTE] Yes? Obviously loads of people are terrified of a shooting happening and hold these lockdown drills, which is a problem in itself. I also don't think those people are worried for no reason at all, they obviously don't feel very safe, and I'm assuming that isn't entirely without warrant. I don't think the problem is mass shootings, but that doesn't mean being afraid a mass shooting is going to happen isn't a sign that something is not right.

[QUOTE=mobrockers;44043647]No, I don't. I don't see how I could've I'm not from the US :v: [editline]25th February 2014[/editline] Fires happen regularly and thus you have drills in case it happens. Shootings do not happen regularly (here).[/QUOTE] Schools around military bases in the US will sometimes have air raid drills, but have you [I]ever[/I] heard of an air raid on a US base on US soil? Cruise ships have lifeboat drills even though you don't see cruise ships sinking that often. School busses have evac drills. Hell, schools in georgia have tornado drills. You don't see tornadoes in Georgia that often. Drills are there so that people can practice what to do [I]in the event of[/I] whatever incident may happen. It is [I]far[/I] better to have some idea of how to react in such a situation than to have it happen and e4verybody panics because nobody knows what to do because nobody there practiced anything relating to it.

[QUOTE=mobrockers;44043828]Yes? Obviously loads of people are terrified of a shooting happening and hold these lockdown drills, which is a problem in itself. I also don't think those people are worried for no reason at all, they obviously don't feel very safe, and I'm assuming that isn't entirely without warrant. I don't think the problem is mass shootings, but that doesn't mean being afraid a mass shooting is going to happen isn't a sign that something is not right.[/QUOTE] it also could be a suspicious person loitering or a car chase that police believe could go by it isn't just for shootings

I knew a kid who had a knife in his truck. He got expelled and sent to a remedial school for the rest of the year. His girlfriend was accused of knowing about it and not saying anything so she got the same punishment

Usually shit like this doesn't happen unless the student is a total shitlord. He's probably done bad shit before and they just want to get rid of him.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;44043690]Meanwhile in Texas, my school lets us carry pocket knives openly.[/QUOTE] Depends on campus and level of education, I read through the legislation for California knife laws, in High School you may not carry a knife with a length past 2" or 2.5", don't exactly remember, and that in college depending on the institution you may have the same or cannot exceed a 3" length.

[QUOTE=Downsider;44043887]Usually shit like this doesn't happen unless the student is a total shitlord. He's probably done bad shit before and they just want to get rid of him.[/QUOTE] I had a student get suspended (maybe expelled, don't remember) from my high school for having one of those solid wooden JROTC marching rifles out in the open in her car. No attempt to hide it or anything, clearly no malintent, just forgot to remove it from her car before going to school. But, hey, zero tolerance policy = suspension!

[QUOTE=Downsider;44043887]Usually shit like this doesn't happen unless the student is a total shitlord. He's probably done bad shit before and they just want to get rid of him.[/QUOTE] Bottom of the article: [quote]Duren said her grandson has a 3.0 grade point average, is on the honor roll and he has never even been sent to the principal's office [/quote]

[QUOTE=mobrockers;44043515]Why did you have to practice getting into an atomic bunker twice a year.[/QUOTE] school was built in the 40's and children make efficient cobweb dusters

Wait, this isnt allowed in america ? I got a huge knive in my car as well

[QUOTE=The golden;44043106]Do American schools exist just to punish children or are they actually educational facilities? I always get the impression that it is the former.[/QUOTE] It is. I remember once I got into a fight with a bully in middle school. The kid was dumber than a sack of shit so he failed a lot. I think he was supposed to be in high school but he was still in the 8th grade. I was in the 7th. He was basically a teenager and I was still a kid. I was in the locker rooms changing and he came in, threw me on the ground, and attempted to walk out with my clothes. I grabbed him by the ankles and made him fall. He tried to kick me off but I wasn't moving. Eventually some kids grabbed him, and he broke the camel's back with this little stunt. So while they were holding him I sucker punched him in the jaw. He broke free and beat me senseless. My head must have been rammed into the tile wall at least six times. I remember being on the floor crying and dizzy. The teacher didn't do shit and just told me to go outside for P.E. I sat in the basketball court just feeling like complete hell. And the Principal comes out, makes a beeline towards me, and gives me this horrific death glare like I'm the one who did something wrong. I told him what happened, and he said the bully had told him the same story (luckily). So, he felt the best punishment would be to put both of us in Internal School Suspension. Now, remember, I'm pretty sure I had a fucking head injury. But he didn't care. He called my mom right in front of me to tell her what I did. He refused to let me speak to her. So while he was talking I tried to shout over the phone that I probably need some sort of medical attention. But no, the principal tells me to shut it. I spent the rest of that day locked in a tiny room with the fucking cunt who beat me and occasionally seeing him staring at me and mouthing off, "I'm going to fucking kill you." And I was supposed to come back the next day and serve another day of internal school suspension. It was bullshit. My mom wanted to press charges on the bully. But, apparently, because I struck the little shit ONCE it would mean I would have to spend the night in jail. Yeah. Fucking middle school. One night in a jail cell. Or maybe a juvenile hall cell. So that never happened. The worst part? I tried to make a statement how this was in self defense. It was a lie, obviously, since I hit him while someone held his arms back. But the principal told me there is "no such thing as self defense" and if I were to ask the school's on-campus police officer he would tell me the same thing. Yeah. A fucking COP would tell me there's no such thing as self-defense. That's what the "zero tolerance policy" some schools have actually is. And it's fucking stupid.

[QUOTE=Johnny Guitar;44043433]guess what happens if you don't give them consent![/QUOTE] Then they can't legally search your car because a principle isn't a judge who can issue a warrant! [QUOTE=mobrockers;44043462]How can anyone say with a straight face the US doesn't have a gun violence problem when 'lockdown' drills to practice procedure during a shooting are considered normal.[/QUOTE] Theres over 100,000 schools in the US. 5 have a gun crime in them a year. It's a non-issue. These lockdown drills are done to appease soccer moms and politicians because in reality they will literally never be used. [editline]25th February 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Downsider;44043887]Usually shit like this doesn't happen unless the student is a total shitlord. He's probably done bad shit before and they just want to get rid of him.[/QUOTE] Kid had a 3.0 GPA and was on the honor role and had scholarships lined up. Sounds like your typical bad kid to me.

[QUOTE=Timebomb575;44043801]ok??? like half the people I know at my university carry knives or multitools for work or utility on campus and I myself have 1 in the emergency kit and 1 in my center console in my car that I park on campus every day its completely outrageous to suspend someone for having a [I]fishing knife[/I] in their car where they cant easily access it throughout the day I mean if he had a fucking machete or sword or something I could see the concern but seriously[/QUOTE] I'm not saying the school's in the right in this situation but what part of "being on school grounds" was missed when asking "why is having a knife a crime". swiss army knives and such are pretty common everywhere and are often overlooked because they're tools, and depending on where you live they can have a lot more practical use in general (whereas you have little business keeping one on you 24/7 in city life), but that doesn't mean you're not getting in trouble for fiddling around with a blade out. Why would a fishing knife be seen by the school as anything other than a big ol' knife? They've got full right to be concerned and look into things, but their reaction was knee-jerk to appease themselves and/or terrified and underinformed soccer moms

Zero tolerance is this: Your rights and all common sense is suspended on school campus (And is now branching off of school campus these days). Walking down the hall and some guy just sucker punches you as he walks by with no warning? You do NOTHING but go straight to the office and tell someone about it? You're suspended too. Zero Tolerance means if you were involved, you get punished, circumstances do not matter. It's bullshit and one of the biggest things I remember about school was how ridiculous punishments were handed out and for what reasons [quote]Then they can't legally search your car because a principle isn't a judge who can issue a warrant! [/quote] Say they ask to search your car (Which now days they probably wouldn't because fuck you, you're on school campus they'll do whatever they like) and you say No. The SRO asks why not and you explain well WHAT IF there was something in the car that the school didn't like and I get in trouble for it? I don't want to take that chance. By saying that you may have just given Probable Cause to search the vehicle if they didn't have it, and found something and you took them to court over it, you could probably get the case thrown out. It's a very important thing and there are very specific rules about what constitutes probable cause or not

[QUOTE=Protocol7;44043820]I have an EDC! Though my college campus permits any knife that isn't a switchblade and is less than 3 inches long (2.99" blade, hell yeah.) They're far more useful as tools than weapons. I would never think about using a knife violently. So much can go wrong (and I have the scars to prove it. My left index finger is permanently swollen from scar tissue.)[/QUOTE] I used to not carry a knife on me to school, but being an art student I started carrying it to school because I do so many weird projects in school where I ended up needed it. I could totally get suspended for it. The irony? There's box cutters and scissors and sharp things like crazy in the art room.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;44044068]Kid had a 3.0 GPA and was on the honor role and had scholarships lined up. Sounds like your typical bad kid to me.[/QUOTE] Take that with a grain of salt.