5 Afghan teens in Sweden charged with raping Afghan boy. Not to be deported due to security concerns - Polidicks

[QUOTE=dunkace;51614782]Thought I would repost it seen as the last one was closed.[/QUOTE] So your assertion is that, for following the very letter of the law that these countries laid out years before this refugee crisis even became a thing, they've lost the plot? For affording these refugees no special treatment, trying and sentencing them just as they would any other criminal? Do enlighten us.

[QUOTE=archangel125;51614814]So your assertion is that, for following the very letter of the law that these countries laid out years before this refugee crisis even became a thing, they've lost the plot? For affording these refugees no special treatment, trying and sentencing them just as they would any other criminal? Do enlighten us.[/QUOTE] My point is that they somehow cant deport someone because its dangerous, yet they brought danger and untold misery to a young boy. Not to mention the fact they are getting just over a year in prison. Its ludicrous that these scum fucks are going to be roaming free again in just over 12 months time.

[QUOTE=dunkace;51614866]My point is that they somehow cant deport someone because its dangerous, yet they brought danger and untold misery to a young boy. Not to mention the fact they are getting just over a year in prison. Its ludicrous that these scum fucks are going to be roaming free again in just over 12 months time.[/QUOTE] Yes, that's because a country that has due process has to follow its own damn criminal code and common law. You can't have a knee-jerk reaction of shock and horror to dirty brown refugees daring to commit a crime against an innocent swede and sentence them all to hang to make yourself feel better, nor do you deport kids to active warzones whenever you feel like it, despite your country's policies forbidding that. Do I think Sweden's penalties for sexual offences are too lenient? Absolutely. Do I think the courts have fucked up at all? No. They did their job, and did it perfectly, without offering anyone any special treatment whatsoever, all in accordance with the law. If you want harsher penalties for such crimes, I've lived in the Middle East myself - Some of the anti-immigrant lobby would [I]love[/I] it there. As I said, I lived in Saudi Arabia once. The difference between countries like SA and Western countries is rule of law - meaning the law in the west is supposed to apply equally to everyone, without exception. That is exactly what's happened here. Now if Sweden can rehabilitate these kids to actually function in society and start giving back to it instead of taking away, that's a problem solved right there. Beats the hell out of keeping them behind bars for the rest of their young lives and then forcing them into criminal gangs later because they can't get work anywhere, like in the USA or even Canada or the UK.

Why do people keep reporting poor Tudd

Apparently for posting confirmed news with better sources. I haven't even input any opinion into this thread lol.

Nah, it's because immigrants can do no wrong, and if you claim otherwise, you are a bigot /s. Lol. There was no different treatment here, the story could have been "boys rape kid" instead of "refugees rape kid", the problem is the low punishment, that doesn't seem to fit the crime.

[QUOTE=Arrk;51615297]Nah, it's because immigrants can do no wrong, and if you claim otherwise, you are a bigot /s. Lol. [/QUOTE] Come on dude nobody here says that

[QUOTE=FalconKrunch;51613764]Not when it comes to rape.[/QUOTE] What's considered rape in Sweden is generally much broader than most other countries, hence skewed statistics.

[QUOTE=Hezzy;51615143]Why do people keep reporting poor Tudd[/QUOTE] Because some people believe that you're not allowed to have an opinion that isn't the same as theirs.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;51613789]What if deportation would likely lead to the defendants injury or death[/QUOTE] Why is that anyone's problem but their own? Why should any country be forced to care for non citizens who clearly have no regard for its ideals and laws? Want to be given a new chance at a better life? Behave. I genuinely don't understand arguments to the contrary. If you are so terrified of your country of origin, you should actually put some effort into integration. There's literally tens of millions of worthy immigrants. What possible benefit is there in not holding them to high standards when we can't even accept all the good ones as it is?

[QUOTE=Hezzy;51615143]Why do people keep reporting poor Tudd[/QUOTE] Because god forbid we have someone with a different opinion.

[QUOTE=IQ-Guldfisk;51613921]No actually, this has been a very talked about topic in Sweden and if you didn't live under a rock you'd understand why. This is a very abbreviated explanation: Back in 2003 the definition of rape was pretty much heterosexual intercourse. Which led to a lot more sexual assault judgements being ruled out than rape. Public opinion though this was bad and wanted more to fall under rape. Now they have changed the definition to basically inserting anything into a vagina/anus or inserting your penis into someone is considered rape. That change happened around 2009 I believe, I might be a couple of years off. That in turn made rape rulings sky-rocket, since now more crimes that before was not rape are considered rape. I don't know how the US treat rape or what is considered rape, but I'm guessing it's not really a fair comparison in this case. Apart from that the so called unreported rapes have (people assume, I'd find source but I've got shit to do so you'll just have to take my word for it) decreased. More rapes that happen in close relations have been reported than before because, once again, public opinion changed so that it isn't as shameful to report a rape anymore. A society that have few rape convictions doesn't automatically have fewer rapes. It even says on that webzone that someone posted about rape statistics that they don't account for unreported rapes. So no, it's not about immigrants, it's about how the classification of rape have changed and how society has encouraged reporting rapes.[/QUOTE] It depends on the state in the US as far as I can tell. At least some of them appear to use a similarly narrow definition to Sweden's old one, which lowers the numbers. I also recently looked up the definition of sexual assault, and it's similarly limiting compared to what most other countries use.

[QUOTE=zupadupazupadude;51614045]We may as well just punish every crime with the death sentence if we start using that logic. How is respecting the human rights of the perpetrators infringing the human rights of the victims? The point of human rights is that they are absolute and that everyone has them. The sentence does seem rather light to me, I agree that it should be a tad higher, however it has to then apply to all Swedes as people here have said before.[/QUOTE] If you knowingly deprive someone of their human rights or you shouldn't have the right to it yourself, It's that simple. If they don't wanna play by the rulebook they can just pack their bags and say good bye, we don't need them anyways, they need us. Now I'm not saying deport every single immigrant, but only the ones that can't behave like normal people. I'm starting to get real sick of the shit that is happening here, and I'm not the only one. If this keeps happening shit is going down in one way or another

[QUOTE=Zovox;51616964]If you knowingly deprive someone of their human rights or you shouldn't have the right to it yourself, It's that simple. If they don't wanna play by the rulebook they can just pack their bags and say good bye, we don't need them anyways, they need us. Now I'm not saying deport every single immigrant, but only the ones that can't behave like normal people. I'm starting to get real sick of the shit that is happening here, and I'm not the only one. If this keeps happening shit is going down in one way or another[/QUOTE] The rulebook is that every human has human rights. Why even have the concept of human rights if you can just pick and choose who has them? And I also don't understand why immigrants in particular should be deported if they can't 'act normally'. Aren't there also plenty of native Swedes who don't 'act normally'? You know there's more to criminality among immigrants than that immigrants are somehow inherently more violent (which is obviously bogus). Explanations for why people become criminals and all the factors behind that are always just tossed out of the window when it comes to immigrants with some people. Just treating immigrants like second class citizens is imo the laziest and most immoral way to try to solve this problem, and is also counter productive.

[QUOTE=zupadupazupadude;51617052]The rulebook is that every human has human rights. Why even have the concept of human rights if you can just pick and choose who has them? And I also don't understand why immigrants in particular should be deported if they can't 'act normally'. Aren't there also plenty of native Swedes who don't 'act normally'? You know there's more to criminality among immigrants than that immigrants are somehow inherently more violent (which is obviously bogus). Explanations for why people become criminals and all the factors behind that are always just tossed out of the window when it comes to immigrants with some people. Just treating immigrants like second class citizens is imo the laziest and most immoral way to try to solve this problem, and is also counter productive.[/QUOTE] Same would apply for prisons then? It would be inhumane to lock someone up for the rest of their lives for murder with that kind of reasoning. And they are not Swedish citizens, they are asylum seekers and the citizens of this country, ethnic swedes or not shouldn't have to pay the tax money to fund the care taking of these kind of people. Meanwhile it happens that the Immigration services decides to deport immigrants who actually wants to be a part of our society, there was a case not long a ago were an entire Iranian family who had been living here for four years were deported because the father of the family's paycheck was 20 dollars too short for a couple of months, now THAT is inhumane

[QUOTE=Hezzy;51615143]Why do people keep reporting poor Tudd[/QUOTE] Im just happy to see that mods dont ban for having a different opinion, only for flaming. But wasn't there a rule against abusing the report button as well?

[QUOTE=Crooky14;51613919]They weren't born rapists, you have to target the root causes, [B]educate people that rape is wrong.[/B][/QUOTE] Stop... just stop. I could understand if this was about educating immigrants that women are allowed to wear whatever they want and are also allowed to be in public unaccompanied by a male. Those are some huge cultural differences which should be addressed as soon as they arrive in the country. But are you seriously, unironically saying that immigrants need to be taught that forcibly raping people with violence is wrong because they don't know any better? If so, then I have no words to describe just how morbidly stupid that sounds.

[QUOTE=AlbertWesker;51618770] But are you seriously, unironically saying that immigrants need to be taught that forcibly raping people with violence is wrong because they don't know any better? If so, then I have no words to describe just how morbidly stupid that sounds.[/QUOTE] German pools already kind of do that. [t]http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user92183/imageroot/2016/01/NoTouching.png[/t] [t]http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user92183/imageroot/2016/01/swimming%20refugees%20cartoon.jpg[/t] And Norway literally does it, [quote]When he first arrived in Europe, Abdu Osman Kelifa, a Muslim asylum seeker from the Horn of Africa, was shocked to see women in skimpy clothes drinking alcohol and kissing in public. Back home, he said, only prostitutes do that, and in locally made movies couples “only hug but never kiss.” Confused, Mr. Kelifa volunteered to take part in a pioneering and, in some quarters, controversial program that seeks to prevent sexual and other violence by helping male immigrants from societies that are largely segregated or in which women show neither flesh nor public affection to adapt to more open European societies. [b]Mr. Kelifa, the African asylum seeker, said he still had a hard time accepting that a wife could accuse her husband of sexual assault. But he added that he had learned how to read previously baffling signals from women who wear short skirts, smile or simply walk alone at night without an escort. “Men have weaknesses and when they see someone smiling it is difficult to control,” Mr. Kelifa said, explaining that in his own country, Eritrea, “if someone wants a lady he can just take her and he will not be punished,” at least not by the police.[/b] Norway, he said, treats women differently. “They can do any job from prime minister to truck driver and have the right to relax” in bars or on the street without being bothered, he added.[/quote] [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/20/world/europe/norway-offers-migrants-a-lesson-in-how-to-treat-women.html[/url] Either way, now that the refugees are here to stay, I think it is better to acknowledge the obvious cultural gap and not act like simply letting people live in their ethnic enclaves will solve the issue. This kind of class in Norway and even that recent one where the [url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/germanys-mr-flirt-teaches-refugees-how-to-pick-up-women/2016/11/28/138b1c6e-b557-11e6-939c-91749443c5e5_story.html]dude[/url] in Germany was teaching refugees how to pick up girls are probably worth endeavors.

[QUOTE=Hezzy;51615143]Why do people keep reporting poor Tudd[/QUOTE] I actually fucking love that you call people out for doing this.

[QUOTE=archangel125;51613749]Not disagreeing with you there, but it seems to work for them. Doesn't Sweden have one of the lowest crime rates in the western world?[/QUOTE] Technically speaking they have the highest rate of sexual assault in Europe, though this could be due to their broader definition of sexual assault.

[QUOTE=fulgrim;51620035]I actually fucking love that you call people out for doing this.[/QUOTE] Apparently I really put a stress on the system.

[QUOTE=AlbertWesker;51618770]Stop... just stop. I could understand if this was about educating immigrants that women are allowed to wear whatever they want and are also allowed to be in public unaccompanied by a male. Those are some huge cultural differences which should be addressed as soon as they arrive in the country. But are you seriously, unironically saying that immigrants need to be taught that forcibly raping people with violence is wrong because they don't know any better? If so, then I have no words to describe just how morbidly stupid that sounds.[/QUOTE] Anyone can clearly tell how unaware you are of issues we face due to Islam(?) traditions.

[QUOTE=CruelAddict;51621637]Anyone can clearly tell how unaware you are of issues we face due to Islam(?) traditions.[/QUOTE] Didn't know raping a woman was an Islamic tradition.

[QUOTE=CruelAddict;51621637]Anyone can clearly tell how unaware you are of issues we face due to Islam(?) traditions.[/QUOTE] blame the traditions instead of shitty people, thats going to totally work.

[QUOTE=IQ-Guldfisk;51622381]Didn't know raping a woman was an Islamic tradition.[/QUOTE] Women being lower in social status and subservient is, and this has lead to some unhealthy cultural standards that exist in Islamic societies that are less secular. [quote]Mr. Kelifa, the African asylum seeker, said he still had a hard time accepting that a wife could accuse her husband of sexual assault. But he added that he had learned how to read previously baffling signals from women who wear short skirts, smile or simply walk alone at night without an escort. “Men have weaknesses and when they see someone smiling it is difficult to control,” Mr. Kelifa said, explaining that in his own country, Eritrea, “if someone wants a lady he can just take her and he will not be punished,” at least not by the police.[/quote] [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/20/world/europe/norway-offers-migrants-a-lesson-in-how-to-treat-women.html[/url] [t]http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2013/04/gsi2-chp4-2.png[/t]

[QUOTE=AlbertWesker;51618770]Stop... just stop. I could understand if this was about educating immigrants that women are allowed to wear whatever they want and are also allowed to be in public unaccompanied by a male. Those are some huge cultural differences which should be addressed as soon as they arrive in the country. But are you seriously, unironically saying that immigrants need to be taught that forcibly raping people with violence is wrong because they don't know any better? If so, then I have no words to describe just how morbidly stupid that sounds.[/QUOTE] I am saying how just deporting them will not stop the ideology and will not stop the problem, these people obviously have some problems and need to be put into some type of program that could rehabilitate them as simply prison alone as a punishment will do no good at targeting the problems which fueled this

Well, adding to what that guy said. While I stayed for one month in Germany I made a friend (girl) and we played against ping pong against 2 syrian refugees (who already knew me from playing a lot) and we won. They shaked hands with me but not with the girl. Dunno why. Perhaps has to do with that worldview. Also, another guy hit on girls by touching their hair and saying "hi sweety". Of course, for everyone non syrian that was kinds creepy, but I thought that from where he came that would be completely "normal" and in fact better than many other attitudes..."he can just take her"....ffs

Don't let your experience of a few syrian refugees become a generalisation of syrian refugees in general

[QUOTE=Crooky14;51622512]Don't let your experience of a few syrian refugees become a generalisation of syrian refugees in general[/QUOTE] Nobody is not saying they aren't human, but to ignore the obvious cultural gap in key areas like women's rights is pure forceful ignorance. I am all for better integration, but walking on eggshells to not offend people gets us nowhere.

[QUOTE=Tudd;51622528]Nobody is not saying they aren't human, but to ignore the obvious cultural gap in key areas like women's rights is pure forceful ignorance. I am all for better integration, but walking on eggshells to not offend people gets us nowhere.[/QUOTE] I am not saying ignore it, but only a handful of refugees could turn out to be rapists and attitudes can change among people. If we are talking about Islam here then remember that there are different types of islam practiced throughout the middle east which all will teach different views and some less fundamentalist than others.