Angelina Jolie & Brad Pitt Support Shiloh's Wish To Be Called "John" - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;46788037]Cis is a latin term used in sciences. Tumblr hijacked it and started applying it to everyone who wasn't trans to fit their "us vs [I]them[/I]" mentality. They were offended by the use of the word "trans" and wanted a counterpart word to hit back with. [editline]24th December 2014[/editline] I'm a bit late to the debate, oops.[/QUOTE] Pretty sure the offensive word wasn't "trans" but "normal" applied to everyone who isn't trans (implying trans is abnormal).

[QUOTE=GunFox;46788157]It is pretty common for little girls to identify as boys. The reverse can also be true, but based on my experience, it isn't as common. Though I have to emphasize that it is anecdotal evidence I'm basing that theory on, not proper research. Either way, children commonly identify as a different gender as part of their development. Maybe they will continue to identify as a boy or they may grow out of it. It is a kid, they do this.[/QUOTE] This is why any kind of permanent transitioning isn't allowed until a child has further developed. However, when they approach pubescence children who are believed to potentially be transgender can be put on puberty blockers, which merely delay the onset of puberty until a decision can be made. As far as I'm aware, there are no adverse effects to that (other than extremely unlikely scenarios where a child is delayed for years and ends up going through puberty many years later, although this essentially happens to any trans person undergoing hormone therapy regardless).

[QUOTE=w00tf1zh;46788206]It is applied to everyone who isn't trans, though. You're either cis or trans. Also it was used long before tumblrs existence.[/QUOTE] I never heard that term before a couple years ago.

In addition, many more DMAB people tend to be transgender in adulthood, and this is potentially due to the fact that 'men' or anybody perceived to be one are a lot more restricted in their gender expression.

[QUOTE=Tuskin;46788247]I never heard that term before a couple years ago.[/QUOTE] That's because before that only smart people used it.

When it comes to gender, biological reality is the only thing the docs gonna care about.

[QUOTE=andy85258;46788312]When it comes to gender, biological reality is the only thing the docs gonna care about.[/QUOTE] Nobody is denying biological reality. If you're a male, you are a male. You can just also be a woman while being male. Or be a man while being female. Gender is separated from sex.

[QUOTE=Ripmax;46788137]cis was first used in reference to gender identity/expression in 1914.[/QUOTE] Yes I said scientific use.

Always glad to see stuff like this. Celebrities talking about trans issues always helps in the way of improving how trans people are seen by the general public. I do find it kind of ironic/unhelpful that his mom still uses female pronouns, but still.

[QUOTE=GunFox;46788157]It is pretty common for little girls to identify as boys. The reverse can also be true, but based on my experience, it isn't as common. Though I have to emphasize that it is anecdotal evidence I'm basing that theory on, not proper research. Either way, children commonly identify as a different gender as part of their development. Maybe they will continue to identify as a boy or they may grow out of it. It is a kid, they do this.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if this was just a minor thing but the media jumped onto that to stir shit up.

[QUOTE=meppers;46787932]all fetuses start out as a female but there is a roughly 50% chance that the fetus will change into a boy, this is why men have nipples. But sometimes this change process fucks up and the body changes but the brain doesn't or vice versa.[/QUOTE] What about X and Y chromosomes then ? As far as I know "In mammals, the sex of the offspring is determined by the sperm cell: a spermatozoon bearing a Y chromosome will lead to a male (XY) offspring, while one bearing an X chromosome will lead to a female (XX) offspring." Or is this a "sex is not gender" thing ?

[QUOTE=Tom Hutchins;46787206]Yay! Supporting our child's mental illness is fun![/QUOTE] Calling transsexuality a mental illness is like calling homosexuality a mental illness. Were you born in the 30's or some shit?

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;46788037]Cis is a latin term used in sciences. Tumblr hijacked it and started applying it to everyone who wasn't trans to fit their "us vs [I]them[/I]" mentality. They were offended by the use of the word "trans" and wanted a counterpart word to hit back with.[/QUOTE] But it's completely accurate to say that everyone who isn't transgender is cisgender. Neither should be a slur and as long as you don't believe transgender is a slur I don't see how you can believe that cisgender is one.

Wouldn't it be nice if people could shut the fuck up about tumblr for one thread

[QUOTE=AntonioR;46788897]What about X and Y chromosomes then ? As far as I know "In mammals, the sex of the offspring is determined by the sperm cell: a spermatozoon bearing a Y chromosome will lead to a male (XY) offspring, while one bearing an X chromosome will lead to a female (XX) offspring." Or is this a "sex is not gender" thing ?[/QUOTE] Yes, this is true, however very early on in its development, the genitals of the fetus very much resemble a vagina until hormones begin to transform it into a penis (if the Y chromosome is present)

[QUOTE=Zeke129;46788982]But it's completely accurate to say that everyone who isn't transgender is cisgender. Neither should be a slur and as long as you don't believe transgender is a slur I don't see how you can believe that cisgender is one.[/QUOTE] I didn't say it was a slur, I said some people are using it like one.

[QUOTE=Eric95;46787356]"Born female" could've worked[/QUOTE] The idea of "assigned female at birth" is that gender is a social construct and she wasn't really "born" anything until the doctor said "it's a girl" based on biological sex. It's really not that ridiculous if you understand the idea that gender is a social construct.

[QUOTE=Hiccuper;46787231]I think that whole "assigned x at birth" thing is stupid, they could have just said biologically female. Sex and gender are two different things. I suppose the term is aimed at people who won't understand that someone can be biologically one gender, but conform to another.[/QUOTE] The concept of biological sex is also a social construct, like gender is. Although, assigned x at birth fits really well, since that's literally what happens with children when the doctors assume their future identity based on their genitals. It's actually horrifying in the case of intersex people, where they're often given surgeries depending on how much their genitals look more like a penis/vagina; the doctors literally pick for them before the child can form their identity.

[QUOTE=Flyingman356;46789164]The idea of "assigned female at birth" is that gender is a social construct and she wasn't really "born" anything until the doctor said "it's a girl" based on biological sex. It's really not that ridiculous if you understand the idea that gender is a social construct.[/QUOTE] I usually find that people who can't grapple with the idea of trans rights don't understand the difference between biological sex and gender. Sex is "male" or "female" - it's whether you have a dick or tits. It's biological and you'll always be that, and that can never change. Some people say it can be changed with surgery, but I still think that biological sex is set in stone. Gender is "man" or "woman" - it's whether you identify as a man or a woman. It has nothing to do with biology or whether you have a dick or not. Personally, I think the entire idea of transgenderism is a little odd. It reinforces the idea that men and women are inherently different on a level beyond the biological. To me, identifying as a different gender is entirely about caving to social ideas of what men and women are supposed to be. It has nothing to do with anything biological or mental, only social - and it seems like it just reinforces certain gender stereotypes. Men wear suits, women wear dresses. There's nothing inherent about that - it's just socially-enforced gender roles. There's nothing wrong about that in the slightest, but it's strange to me that there's so much overlap between groups trying to break down gender roles and transgender people. Someone correct me if I'm misunderstanding the idea - I'm not well-versed in transgender rights.

[QUOTE=Flyingman356;46789164]The idea of "assigned female at birth" is that gender is a social construct and she wasn't really "born" anything until the doctor said "it's a girl" based on biological sex. It's really not that ridiculous if you understand the idea that gender is a social construct.[/QUOTE] Female isn't the gender, it's the sex. You can be a man and still be female

[QUOTE=SGTSpartans;46787240]Im pretty sure its a she, however, the whole "assigned a female/male at birth" thing is stupid. Mental affiliation with sexual identification =/= biological sex given due to biological function provided thru genitals. I support her/he in pursuing happiness through this, but the whole reconstruction of political correctness around this subject is annoying.[/QUOTE] it's funny how the bigots are always the ones that refer to transpeople as "it"

[QUOTE=GunFox;46788157]It is pretty common for little girls to identify as boys. The reverse can also be true, but based on my experience, it isn't as common. Though I have to emphasize that it is anecdotal evidence I'm basing that theory on, not proper research. Either way, children commonly identify as a different gender as part of their development. Maybe they will continue to identify as a boy or they may grow out of it. It is a kid, they do this.[/QUOTE] Basically this, people trying to call her a brainwashed or "better check your pronouns" are really jumping the gun. Exploring your identity and feeling the waters of the other is completely normal, it's why sometimes a little boy might act girlish for a while and girls might act boyish. Hell, the article points this out: [quote]The Telegraph spoke with clinical psychologist Linda Blair who advised parents to not jump to the conclusion their child is trans*. "It’s normal [for children with older siblings] to want to copy them and be like them," Blair explained. The healthiest and most respectful action a parent can take is to follow the Jolie-Pitt's example and allow their child to go through a normal human experience exploring their own identity at their own pace and on their own terms[/quote] This doesn't prove anything other than celebrity journalism loves to grab at straws and take them to wild conclusions.

[QUOTE=Eric95;46789222]Female isn't the gender, it's the sex. You can be a man and still be female[/QUOTE] I honestly don't understand this. What does "being a man" even mean then, what defines someone as man or a woman then, basically it loses it's meaning altogether. Liking a romance movie more than a action movie ? Having short hair instead of long ? Not to mention English "gender" and "sex" translate to the same word in my language, so hearing all this is confusing.

[QUOTE=AntonioR;46789348]I honestly don't understand this. What does "being a man" even mean then, what defines someone as man or a woman then ? Liking a romance movie more than a action movie ? Having short hair instead of long ? Not to mention English "gender" and "sex" translate to the same word in my language, so hearing all this is confusing.[/QUOTE] None of that defines you as a man or a woman. There are tons of men who prefer romance over action, and tons of women who prefer short hair over long. The only thing that defines you as a man or woman is yourself. You are the only one who can declare what you are.

[QUOTE=Starlight 456;46789367]None of that defines you as a man or a woman. There are tons of men who prefer romance over action, and tons of women who prefer short hair over long. The only thing that defines you as a man or woman is yourself. You are the only one who can declare what you are.[/QUOTE] But that's the problem here, how can you declare what you are if there is not a definition for it ? How can someone know if someone feels more like a "man" or a "woman" if everybody can declare it for themselves for whatever reason ? Edit: There was one story of a woman born who decided to be a man, went to hormonal therapy and what not, and after few years decided to have a baby. What is that ?

[QUOTE=Hiccuper;46787231]I think that whole "assigned x at birth" thing is stupid, they could have just said biologically female. Sex and gender are two different things. I suppose the term is aimed at people who won't understand that someone can be biologically one gender, but conform to another.[/QUOTE] Gender isn't biological, sex is.

[QUOTE=AntonioR;46789384]But that's the problem here, how can you declare what you are if there is not a definition for it ? How can someone know if someone feels more like a "man" or a "woman" if everybody can declare it for themselves for whatever reason ?[/QUOTE] It's really all up to the person's inner feelings. If they feel more like a man, and they want to say they are, then they are. Same for if they feel more like a woman. It's entirely possible for people to feel like neither. Or even both. Basically, there's no strict structure of what men and women are, because more and more it's being discovered that it's not as binary as it seems.

[QUOTE=Eric95;46787356]"Born female" could've worked[/QUOTE] there's a difference between assigned and "born female". "assigned" implies that the child may be intersexed, dunno if this is the case for this kid

[QUOTE=Starlight 456;46789404]It's really all up to the person's inner feelings. If they feel more like a man, and they want to say they are, then they are. Same for if they feel more like a woman. It's entirely possible for people to feel like neither. Or even both. Basically, there's no strict structure of what men and women are, because more and more it's being discovered that it's not as binary as it seems.[/QUOTE] We are running in circles here, because you define a man by feeling like a man. It's like saying green is the color of green. Do you want to say "if you are feeling like a traditional image of a man" ?

[QUOTE=Tom Hutchins;46787206]Yay! Supporting our child's mental illness is fun![/QUOTE] Imagine being this bigoted. [editline]24th December 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Showgun;46787293]his opinion is different than mine so therefor he's stupid[/QUOTE] He has a right to his stupid opinion just as we have the right to our opinion of him being stupid. Opinions are a valid target for criticism.