Disney animators aim to revive 2D hand-drawn animation with “Hullabaloo" - Polidicks

It really sucks how 2D got killed by just a few movies bombing for various reasons. It doesn't help that Disney went "ok, we'll give 2d another chance" with The Princess and the Frog, only to have it lose heavily to fucking Alvin and the Chipmunks due to extremely poor timing. 2D is always going to look better in a Disney movie because the 3D movies are still designed with a 2D philosophy, put into 3D because the marketers say it'll sell better.

Nice! I thought they were going to totally write off 2D after The Princess and the Frog.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;45884305] 2D animation has a lot of advantages when it comes to those little variations in expression and character movement. [B]It's just very, very, very difficult to make a whole movie look that good consistently[/B].[/QUOTE] Which is something that always impressed me about Disney's 2d movies. Open up something like aladdin or the lion king and just pause it randomly. 90% of the time you can get a perfect screencap that looks like some sort of promotional image, whereas a lot of other 2d animated shows/movies you'll usually hit a really badly drawn frame pretty easily. I love 2D and find consistently good quality animation with it so impressive and wish it wasn't going away.

So how many million in funding to they need to make a full length film without needing an investor?

Looks like Guns of Icarus. Im interested.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;45884305][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVWtTPa7wLM[/media] 2D animation has a lot of advantages when it comes to those little variations in expression and character movement. It's just very, very, very difficult to make a whole movie look that good consistently.[/QUOTE] I wish Frozen was 2D, because I didn't really see a reason for it to be CGI. But in Wreck-It-Ralph's case, I think it benefited from being CGI, considering the subject of the movie. Disney hasn't totally stopped doing 2D. Gravity Falls is still rocking on the Disney Channel, its 2D and its very well-done.

I wish people had more respect and appreciation for the art and animation in CGI films. It just reads like some sort of "damn youths and their iPods" thing whenever I see people hating on CG and wishing for 2D animation.

[QUOTE=Bloodshot12;45884956]Which is something that always impressed me about Disney's 2d movies. Open up something like aladdin or the lion king and just pause it randomly. 90% of the time you can get a perfect screencap that looks like some sort of promotional image, whereas a lot of other 2d animated shows/movies you'll usually hit a really badly drawn frame pretty easily. I love 2D and find consistently good quality animation with it so impressive and wish it wasn't going away.[/QUOTE] honestly I think that the idea that an entire movie needs to be this immaculately animated and polished product to be the main downfall of american 2d animation. We set the expectation for what animated features have to be so high that they became impractical. Everything is so centered around everything being clean and polished and on model. euch. [editline]4th September 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Zuimzado;45885023]I wish Frozen was 2D, because I didn't really see a reason for it to be CGI. But in Wreck-It-Ralph's case, I think it benefited from being CGI, considering the subject of the movie. Disney hasn't totally stopped doing 2D. Gravity Falls is still rocking on the Disney Channel, its 2D and its very well-done.[/QUOTE] hey man, wreck it ralph was great. I think they took full advantage of what you can do in CG, no complaints there. With movies like Tangled and Frozen though I feel like they were designed to be 2D and then grinded down to fit in 3D. The character designs just end up blending together because they lack the subtle changes in facial structure that work in a two dimensional environment but not in a three dimensional one. [editline]4th September 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=CrimsonChin;45885049]I wish people had more respect and appreciation for the art and animation in CGI films. It just reads like some sort of "damn youths and their iPods" thing whenever I see people hating on CG and wishing for 2D animation.[/QUOTE] I am so not saying CG is inferior to 2D. CG is fucking awesome when it's done right, just like every medium. And it can do tons of stuff that nothing else can. I complain when people act like CG is a replacement for 2D, despite the fact that they're completely different. I would complain just as much if people acted like photography was a replacement for oil painting.

While we're at it can we have some more phil collins thanks

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;45884412]I don't know, I thought Monster's Inc. was pretty good.[/QUOTE] i fucking knew someone would say that, making it all the better when talking about animation. fun fact: i accidentally capitalized that when initially writing that. [editline]3rd September 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Zuimzado;45885023]I wish Frozen was 2D, because I didn't really see a reason for it to be CGI. But in Wreck-It-Ralph's case, I think it benefited from being CGI, considering the subject of the movie. Disney hasn't totally stopped doing 2D. Gravity Falls is still rocking on the Disney Channel, its 2D and its very well-done.[/QUOTE] yeah, but that's animated by a company overseas (much like most TV shows, in Korea.) When we say Disney stopped 2D animation, we mean Disney Animation Studios, who [URL="http://www.cartoonbrew.com/disney/breaking-disney-just-gutted-their-hand-drawn-animation-division-81043.html"]let go of their entire 2D division last year.[/URL]

[QUOTE=Sableye;45883313]hand drawn is great for getting an art style down but its not completely nessisary computers allowed for much smoother and real-er looking movement and transitions[/QUOTE] "real-er" no you're the problem i dont give a shit about realism thats why im watching an animation and not live action

[QUOTE=adam1172;45884999]So how many million in funding to they need to make a full length film without needing an investor?[/QUOTE] a lot. 2D animation is crazy expensive.

[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;45885049]I wish people had more respect and appreciation for the art and animation in CGI films. It just reads like some sort of "damn youths and their iPods" thing whenever I see people hating on CG and wishing for 2D animation.[/QUOTE] CG is very cool as a medium, but its sad to see it taking over so much of main stream animation primarily as like a cost cutting measure. Not to disparage the effort and hardwork that goes into CG, of course, but its pretty clear that the man power/talent/cost requirements of hand drawn animations are a pretty huge aspect of why they've fallen by the way side in main stream works. The fact that so much effort is put into replicating the hand drawn look with 3D CGI like the Paperman short just goes to prove that point.

i don't really think 2d is any better than 3d, but i'd absolutely hate to see it die off [editline]4th September 2014[/editline] so, glad they're making this

Well since the goal has already been reached, might as well donate more. The more we support this film, the more likely we'll be getting more 2D animated films from Disney.

on a slightly related note, i'm surprised so many people like steampunk shit, especially on facepunch. it's so fucking dumb to me, and my experience with any media with a steampunk theme/aesthetic has been shit. i remember a thread on fp a little while back on Steam Powered Giraffe or whatever it's called, and it was fucking dreadful. also slightly related, i love the victorian era aesthetic, but steampunk really seems to creep its way into anything victorian era related. anyway, i'm glad disney is making this push towards hand-drawn animation. i realize it's more tedious and difficult, but the end result is a lot better than anything made on a computer, to me at least.

[QUOTE=Sableye;45883313]hand drawn is great for getting an art style down but its not completely nessisary computers allowed for much smoother and real-er looking movement and transitions[/QUOTE] i hate computer-generated animation. not 3D movies like Pixar, But Computer Generated 2D animation. I don't mind it when it is used with regular animation but it is very bad for those that love animation. everything feels so bad and fake watchin it compared to stuff like disney and warner bros cartoons. It's the sole reason i love anime, while they use CG in ok amounts (and they do it really fucking well, evangelion 2.22 is a great example), most of it is actual handdrawn animation (and is still a norm way of doing it.) only shows i can think of that do traditional animation in the US still is like Superjail (they actually draw more frames than the standard animation speed of 24fps), venture bros., and Rick and Morty.

The Princess and the Frog was 2d animated and had fantastic visuals. Especially with all the voodoo shit

[QUOTE=ze spy;45887031]on a slightly related note, i'm surprised so many people like steampunk shit, especially on facepunch. it's so fucking dumb to me[/QUOTE] "I'm surprised a lot of people like it because I don't like it" I don't particularly like steampunk either but listen to yourself.

[QUOTE=Wii60;45887068] only shows i can think of that do traditional animation in the US still is like Superjail (they actually draw more frames than the standard animation speed of 24fps), venture bros., and Rick and Morty.[/QUOTE] Quite a few shows today (such as Gravity Falls, The Legend of Korra, Steven Universe, The Simpsons and even Family Guy) actually use traditional animation in the US to get things done. Some artists and animators on the show actually prefer to work traditionally, and the studio is usually able to accommodate for that along with the people who prefer to work digitally. Some of the animation is also done in-house as well. Not all of it is sent overseas, and the stuff that's done in-house typically looks better then the overseas animation. The catch is, the animation and production teams cut so many corners to get episodes released on time that it can usually end up looking very stiff, and relying more on voice acting, writing and composition to convey the story rather then the animation itself. Sometimes you'll even have odd cases like Family Guy, where the stiff animation and locked proportions are actually a style requirement for the animation in the later seasons. In TV animation, you usually get to animate a shot once, then if you're really lucky, maybe redo it a second time or make changes. More often then not though, you animate the shot the first time, send it in and move on to the next one. The demands for TV animation are so big that you usually don't have enough time to put much love into it. You do get shows like Superjail! sometimes that get a lot more attention and look amazing in action, but the production time for another season to be made for that show is usually a gigantic wait time for an animated TV show.

[QUOTE=Gamerman12;45883578]Hell, we basically NEED 2D animation for cartoons on TV due to time constraints, the only company able to produce 3D animation in a short timeframe is Dreamworks due to their large staff. Plus, a lot of animators still sketch out their ideas and animations in 2D, which leads them to imitate the 2D medium. And now with experiments like Paperman and Feast that have been well recieved, even the Mouse House is considering 2D again, albeit an onion skin over 3D. Still, [B]I really don't want to sully this project.[/B] It looks absolutely amazing, and I'll probably donate to it, but only because it looks to be an awesome film, not to preserve what's still active.[/QUOTE] hand drawn cel animation is EASIER for time and budget constraints? do you understand how much is done in flash and the like right now? How many television shows are done on a regular basis [i]in 3D?[/i] I really don't understand either side of the extreme computer aided animation vs hand made, it's always such narrow minded strawman arguments that boil down to "but this doesn't have heart :(" and "computers are technology :)"

I am extremely excited for this! There is something special about the "hand-drawn" animation style as opposed to 3D. While I love CGI films as much as anybody else, the traditionally animated stuff really appeals to my sense of nostalgia. It just feels more cozy and personal, somehow. I am really digging the overall art direction of this project, too. It reminds me a lot of Atlantis, or Treasure Planet, which were among my favorite movies as a kid (and probably still are).

[QUOTE=dai;45890003]hand drawn cel animation is EASIER for time and budget constraints? do you understand how much is done in flash and the like right now? How many television shows are done on a regular basis [i]in 3D?[/i] I really don't understand either side of the extreme computer aided animation vs hand made, it's always such narrow minded strawman arguments that boil down to "but this doesn't have heart :(" and "computers are technology :)"[/QUOTE] When did I say any of that? It's not easier to do animation in 2D, especially on cels, and honestly I think it's harder down the line to do 2D animation due to drawing and redrawing (which is why I'm a 3D animator.) You say most animation is done in Flash or Toonboom, but usually what goes on is they animate on paper first, then take it into Flash/Toonboom for final lines and colors. But for the stuff you're specifically talking about there's usually two avenues to take, which I call Splines and Lines. (pardon my bad metaphor) Splines being stuff like MLP, Fosters, El Tigre, and Lines being Adventure Time, Gravity Falls, Rick and Morty, SuperJail. The former is usually what I call "Flash Animation" due to it being obviously Flash for overusing splines to cut corners and draw less. And yeah, there is an over-saturation of that cause it's cheap, though thankfully not so much in the movie industry. Also I'm really curious to hear what other shows are being done in 3D that aren't produced by Dreamworks, save for a few Disney TV things. I haven't seen a lot, but maybe that's due to my knowledge of shows being focused mainly on Disney, CN, and Nickelodeon. Personally, I think as long as it's continually drawn, it's "Hand-Drawn," no matter what medium. If it cuts too many corners, it becomes artificial and to some, "lazy." I'm 90% sure even Hullabaloo is using computers to color, but paper to animate, considering the comp that they're using to make the 3D effects, and their WIP to Final shots they showed in the trailer.

Oh shit, so a gothic steampunk disney movie? Hand drawn? Sold

[QUOTE=ze spy;45887031]on a slightly related note, i'm surprised so many people like steampunk shit, especially on facepunch. it's so fucking dumb to me, and my experience with any media with a steampunk theme/aesthetic has been shit. i remember a thread on fp a little while back on Steam Powered Giraffe or whatever it's called, and it was fucking dreadful. also slightly related, i love the victorian era aesthetic, but steampunk really seems to creep its way into anything victorian era related. anyway, i'm glad disney is making this push towards hand-drawn animation. i realize it's more tedious and difficult, but the end result is a lot better than anything made on a computer, to me at least.[/QUOTE] steampunk has a moderately large 'fandom' of sorts, so it's easy to end up with a lot of people bastardizing it into fashion statements and ridiculous design schema. I'm sure you've heard the joke, "just glue some gears on it" there's a lot of different [aesthetic]punks dealing with similar stuff, 'clockwork' is more what people tend to try associating 'steam' with, but then things just get muddled. Clockwork is brilliant in concept but, again, the majority of people producing content just kind of gravitate towards hotgluing a stack of gutted watch parts to their face and posting it to deviantart. For another you might recognize, there's 'diesel'punk, which is geared more towards 'golden era' vehicle design language [t]http://www.absolutetrouble.com/dolcetriade/top.jpg[/t] [t]http://halcyonrealms.com/blogpics/toriyamaart08.jpg[/t] there's also cyberpunk, which draws a lot on the vision of the dystopian future as brought to us by the 80's. Bladerunner, Akira, and Ghost in the Shell are major influences

[QUOTE=DEMONSKUL;45890180]Oh shit, so a gothic steampunk disney movie? Hand drawn? Sold[/QUOTE] Disney [B]animators[/B] not Disney's studio it's kind of like when Don Bluth broke away, it'll probably look like Disney but not feel like it [editline]4th September 2014[/editline] also I like how we can rely on traditional animation being "revived" every few years. It's either never going to stick or it's not actually dead, just slow. Or somewhere in between. You aren't going to see Disney reliably pumping out traditional animation anytime soon because no matter how hard people try they aren't making nostalgia profitable enough to deal with the inefficiency.

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;45890432]Disney [B]animators[/B] not Disney's studio it's kind of like when Don Bluth broke away, it'll probably look like Disney but not feel like it [editline]4th September 2014[/editline] also I like how we can rely on traditional animation being "revived" every few years[/QUOTE] Ok....Oh shit, so a gothich steampunk animated movie? Hand drawn? Sold better now?

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;45890432]also I like how we can rely on traditional animation being "revived" every few years. It's either never going to stick or it's not actually dead, just slow. Or somewhere in between. You aren't going to see Disney reliably pumping out traditional animation anytime soon because no matter how hard people try they aren't making nostalgia profitable enough to deal with the inefficiency.[/QUOTE] that's why i keep on blabbing and saying that it's not dead, just slow and not picked up by larger studios.

Yeah Disney's still pretty good at making 2d cartoons, for example think about those Mickey Mouse shorts they made a year ago [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCaxXQdkfPk[/media]

[QUOTE=ze spy;45887031]on a slightly related note, i'm surprised so many people like steampunk shit, especially on facepunch. it's so fucking dumb to me, and my experience with any media with a steampunk theme/aesthetic has been shit. i remember a thread on fp a little while back on Steam Powered Giraffe or whatever it's called, and it was fucking dreadful. also slightly related, i love the victorian era aesthetic, but steampunk really seems to creep its way into anything victorian era related. anyway, i'm glad disney is making this push towards hand-drawn animation. i realize it's more tedious and difficult, but the end result is a lot better than anything made on a computer, to me at least.[/QUOTE] steampunk is good [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVnNWLhhkvQ[/media]