[QUOTE=reedbo;47967073]Safe injection sites aren't promoting addiction and you're an idiot if you believe that. The primary goal for these sites is to prevent and rehabilitate addicts in a safe environment in order to provide an able citizen for the rest of society. When you don't have people to do the small things in society you wouldn't be able to accomplish anything worthwhile. You don't have any proof that these safe injection sites are promoting this behavior or even destigmatizing it, that's just what you [I]feel[/I]. When you actually have a point I may feel like arguing with you but when all you've got is "it's promoting bad behavior!1!!" I can't take you seriously. People don't want to be addicted to substances that's just how the human brain works. It's just processing chemicals.[/QUOTE]
There are already people that should be doing the menial labour of our society, their called teenagers and college students, it's not like we need to rehabilitate drug addicts to fill those positions.
The very fact that you would have people openly committing a criminal offence in a government funded establishment without any repercussions is indicative of just a little destigmatization, don't you think?
[QUOTE=The golden;47967090]If you've seen any of FatWorm's posts here in the earlier pages you'll know he doesn't want to help people if he doesn't see them giving back a financial contribution he deems to be worth it.
See my earlier post on him:
I really want to know what the fuck went wrong in his life that he looks at people and can only think of their financial worth and how much tax money they cost him.[/QUOTE]
I've been following this thread for a while. bIgFaTwOrM12 has yet to respond to my solution to the problem that I proposed some pages back.
[QUOTE=reedbo;47967156]I've been following this thread for a while. bIgFaTwOrM12 has yet to respond to my solution to the problem that I proposed some pages back.[/QUOTE]
Reposting it would help you know, I'm not omniscient.
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;47967126]There are already people that should be doing the menial labour of our society, their called teenagers and college students, it's not like we need to rehabilitate drug addicts to fill those positions.
The very fact that you would have people openly committing a criminal offence in a government funded establishment without any repercussions is indicative of just a little destigmatization, don't you think?[/QUOTE]
No I don't. Ultimately it's up to society to deem what's right and wrong not the laws or government. Stigma is just another way to control others and isn't with good intent, ever. Why would you throw away useful human beings simply because their brain is doing what it's supposed to do? They only fell into that situation because of the stigmatization you promote. Education is key to prevent future drug abuse and the solution to the current addicted population is rehabilitation.
[editline]15th June 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;47967225]Reposting it would help you know, I'm not omniscient.[/QUOTE]
You replied to it but it was just a half-assed response re-iterating your harmful ideals instead of actual thought.
[QUOTE=reedbo;47882592]Here's a point.
How about society and government work together to teach safe and responsible use of drugs? In my opinion the only way to reduce drug [I]abuse[/I] is to properly educate students on the effects and potential dangers of common drugs (to include prescription drugs and alcohol). When you use a negative stigma and misinformation about these substances your only promoting dangerous ignorance and naivety. When the largest substance abuse prone group doesn't understand the potential risks of these substances then they can't make rational decisions about them thus leading to addiction and overdose. Much like guns and sex, proper education is the only way to prevent harm; when you know how things can be potentially dangerous or bad you can make rational decisions about situations.
In-fact, you are a perfect example of this behavior. I can assume that you've never tried illicit substances therefore you wouldn't understand what the cause and effects of those substances can be. That would entail that your only knowledge of drugs would be the negative stigma that you so kindly endorse.[/QUOTE]
What would be the end goal in your proposed solution? People dying in the streets because they didn't listen to their parents or the government? Regardless, not helping addicts and not properly educating the ignorant is a net loss, there is nothing gained from any of that and if you think there is I would love to know what other peoples lives are worth in your mind.
[QUOTE=reedbo;47967264]No I don't. Ultimately it's up to society to deem what's right and wrong not the laws or government. Stigma is just another way to control others and isn't with good intent, ever. Why would you throw away useful human beings simply because their brain is doing what it's supposed to do? They only fell into that situation because of the stigmatization you promote. Education is key to prevent future drug abuse and the solution to the current addicted population is rehabilitation.[/QUOTE]
Why does everyone assume I want to throw people out, of course I don't want anyone to die, I just don't want tax dollars to be flushed into establishments that will help people commit criminal offences all while making their behaviours more acceptable to the general populace.
If anything I actually want to help people as opposed to making half-assed feel-good efforts.
[QUOTE]Here's a point.
How about society and government work together to teach safe and responsible use of drugs? In my opinion the only way to reduce drug abuse is to properly educate students on the effects and potential dangers of common drugs (to include prescription drugs and alcohol). When you use a negative stigma and misinformation about these substances your only promoting dangerous ignorance and naivety. When the largest substance abuse prone group doesn't understand the potential risks of these substances then they can't make rational decisions about them thus leading to addiction and overdose. Much like guns and sex, proper education is the only way to prevent harm; when you know how things can be potentially dangerous or bad you can make rational decisions about situations.
In-fact, you are a perfect example of this behavior. I can assume that you've never tried illicit substances therefore you wouldn't understand what the cause and effects of those substances can be. That would entail that your only knowledge of drugs would be the negative stigma that you so kindly endorse.[/QUOTE]
I never said anything about promoting ignorance, only ensuring that drugs are viewed with extreme negativity (especially among lower classes). Also how can you say the most prone group doesn't understand the risks? The risks are most likely an everyday part of their lives as they see friends and family deal with the crippling effects of drug abuse. It's not like the lower classes are living in a nice suburb with no hint of drug abusers and then accidently become addicts.
As I believe I said in my last response, I am a perfect example of the positive effects of a negative stigma as I have yet to use any illegal drugs and do not even have the desire to.
[editline]blah[/editline]
[QUOTE]What would be the end goal in your proposed solution? People dying in the streets because they didn't listen to their parents or the government? Regardless, not helping addicts and not properly educating the ignorant is a net loss, there is nothing gained from any of that and if you think there is I would love to know what other peoples lives are worth in your mind.[/QUOTE]
Well if people won't listen to the two major authorities in human society, I don't really see what can be done with them aside form putting them in a cage. People's lives are important to me, as a result I want to keep some semblance of civilization intact so as to minimize the destructive behaviours of man as much as possible.
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;47967440]Well if people won't listen to the two major authorities in human society, I don't really see what can be done with them aside form putting them in a cage. People's lives are important to me, as a result I want to keep some semblance of civilization intact so as to minimize the destructive behaviours of man as much as possible.[/QUOTE]
[quote][B]in a cage[/B][/quote]
Like the animals they are.
"You guys don't get it, I'm the good guy!"
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;47967440]Why does everyone assume I want to throw people out, of course I don't want anyone to die, I just don't want tax dollars to be flushed into establishments that will help people commit criminal offences all while making their behaviours more acceptable to the general populace.
If anything I actually want to help people as opposed to making half-assed efforts.
I never said anything about promoting ignorance, only ensuring that drugs are viewed with extreme negativity (especially among lower classes). Also how can you say the most prone group doesn't understand the risks? The risks are most likely an everyday part of their lives as they see friends and family deal with the crippling effects of drug abuse. It's not like the lower classes are living in a nice suburb with no hint of drug abusers and then accidently become addicts.
As I believe I said in my last response, I am a perfect example of the positive effects of a negative stigma as I have yet to use any illegal drugs and do not even have the desire to.[/QUOTE]
Oh god that's hilarious! Do you want to know how we got ourselves into this mess?
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Reefer_Madness[/URL]
Reefer Madness was intended to promote a stigma about marijuana and it's effects. The intentional spread of misinformation has caused a false image of marijuana. When you see your peers consuming substances and the outcome isn't the same as the stigma has lead you to believe then you are more likely to partake. Without proper education on the [B]real[/B] dangers of the substances you would be more likely to fall into addiction and abuse.
Here's an interesting study I pulled out of my ass:
[URL]http://www.fcaglp.unlp.edu.ar/~mmiller/espanol/Variedades, politica/drogas_Journal.pdf[/URL]
It really highlights my point about misinformation. A lot of the stigma associated with drugs promotes that drugs are addictive and dangerous. In reality the addiction rates of these substances are heavily misconstrued to indicated that other seriously addictive drugs are in-fact less addictive.
Even with the habit forming of some substances they are still less harmful than the legal alternatives.
Alcohol within our culture is definitely less stigmatized than other safer illicit substances and that actually causes more harm to society. Less people are harmed from 'scarier' drugs than they are from society's most commonly used drug, alcohol.
Simply because we've taught everyone that LSD is more dangerous than alcohol.
[QUOTE=reedbo;47968011]Oh god that's hilarious! Do you want to know how we got ourselves into this mess?
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Reefer_Madness[/URL]
Reefer Madness was intended to promote a stigma about marijuana and it's effects. The intentional spread of misinformation has caused a false image of marijuana. When you see your peers consuming substances and the outcome isn't the same as the stigma has lead you to believe then you are more likely to partake. Without proper education on the [B]real[/B] dangers of the substances you would be more likely to fall into addiction and abuse.
Here's an interesting study I pulled out of my ass:
[URL]http://www.fcaglp.unlp.edu.ar/~mmiller/espanol/Variedades, politica/drogas_Journal.pdf[/URL]
It really highlights my point about misinformation. A lot of the stigma associated with drugs promotes that drugs are addictive and dangerous. In reality the addiction rates of these substances are heavily misconstrued to indicated that other seriously addictive drugs are in-fact less addictive.
Even with the habit forming of some substances they are still less harmful than the legal alternatives.
Alcohol within our culture is definitely less stigmatized than other safer illicit substances and that actually causes more harm to society. Less people are harmed from 'scarier' drugs than they are from society's most commonly used drug, alcohol.
Simply because we've taught everyone that LSD is more dangerous than alcohol.[/QUOTE]
When I talk about a negative stigma I'm not just talking about fear of addiction you know, I'm also talking about general condemnation of wasteful hedonistic behaviour and the motivation to seek out chemical highs for pleasure. Also again, I never indicated that the negative stigma has to be misinformation.
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;47968444]When I talk about a negative stigma I'm not just talking about fear of addiction you know, I'm also talking about general condemnation of wasteful hedonistic behaviour and the motivation to seek out chemical highs for pleasure. Also again, I never indicated that the negative stigma has to be misinformation.[/QUOTE]
yo did you ever get high (srs question)
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;47968444]When I talk about a negative stigma I'm not just talking about fear of addiction you know, I'm also talking about general condemnation of wasteful hedonistic behaviour and the motivation to seek out chemical highs for pleasure. Also again, I never indicated that the negative stigma has to be misinformation.[/QUOTE]
Just keep sipping your whiskey and pretending it's not a chemical high you're getting from it, regardless of whether you sought it out or not.
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;47968444]When I talk about a negative stigma I'm not just talking about fear of addiction you know, I'm also talking about general condemnation of wasteful hedonistic behaviour and the motivation to seek out chemical highs for pleasure. Also again, I never indicated that the negative stigma has to be misinformation.[/QUOTE]
Wasteful hedonistic behaviour like nursing whiskey all day after work?
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;47968444]When I talk about a negative stigma I'm not just talking about fear of addiction you know, I'm also talking about general condemnation of wasteful hedonistic behaviour and the motivation to seek out chemical highs for pleasure. Also again, I never indicated that the negative stigma has to be misinformation.[/QUOTE]
So you're advocating death to the people who fall into addiction in order to fit into your opinion of ideal society?
[QUOTE=reedbo;47969151]So you're advocating death to the people who fall into addiction in order to fit into your opinion of ideal society?[/QUOTE]
If it's a necessary step towards preventing the normalization of destructive behaviours, I don't see another option.
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;47969420]If it's a necessary step towards preventing the normalization of destructive behaviours, I don't see another option.[/QUOTE]
But you would never consider removing alcohol from society?
[QUOTE=reedbo;47969151]So you're advocating death to the people who fall into addiction in order to fit into your opinion of ideal society?[/QUOTE]
That's basically what he's been saying for the past seven pages.
His logic is as follows:
✓ Drug addicts universally made the conscious decision to become addicts and were not pressured to do so by their parents, friends, or anyone else.
✓ By and large, all drug addicts are non-contributing members of society that generate a net loss compared to non-addicts.
✓ Drug addicts cannot be "cured" or otherwise helped by any means less expensive to society than their future contributions would be as an ex-addict (e.g. helping them would cost us more than the results would help us).
✓ Human life does not have intrinsic, unconditional value.
✓ Helping addicts would present a precedent which would convince non-addicts, who would otherwise have not considered the idea, that becoming an addict is a good idea (thereby perpetuating the cycle endlessly).
✓ Therefore, we should not waste resources on them; instead, we should force them to kill themselves through overdoses and withdrawals.
Six steps, all wrong.
[QUOTE=Snowmew;47969478]That's basically what he's been saying for the past seven pages.
His logic is as follows:
✓ Drug addicts universally made the conscious decision to become addicts and were not pressured to do so by their parents, friends, or anyone else.
✓ By and large, all drug addicts are non-contributing members of society that generate a net loss compared to non-addicts.
✓ Drug addicts cannot be "cured" or otherwise helped by any means less expensive to society than their future contributions would be as an ex-addict (e.g. helping them would cost us more than the results would help us).
✓ Human life does not have intrinsic value.
✓ Therefore, we should not waste resources on them; instead, we should force them to kill themselves through overdoses and withdrawals.
Five steps, all wrong.[/QUOTE]
Don't forget to exclude alcohol from that equation entirely due to western cultures history with it that makes it incapable of being an ill of society!
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47969493]Don't forget to exclude alcohol from that equation entirely due to western cultures history with it that makes it incapable of being an ill of society![/QUOTE]
And addicts of legal drugs (prescriptions, OTC, etc.)
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47969493]Don't forget to exclude alcohol from that equation entirely due to western cultures history with it that makes it incapable of being an ill of society![/QUOTE]
Not to mention that impoverished people stuck juggling a few minimum-wage jobs just to stay afloat sometimes turn to using methamphetamine just to survive the work load.
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;47969420]If it's a necessary step towards preventing the normalization of destructive behaviours, I don't see another option.[/QUOTE]
if youre going down that road might as well ban alcohol, cigarettes, unhealthy foods, etc
Fuck Harper and fuck the conservative Canadian government.
or instead, if what you want is a productive society, you could work towards rehabilitating addicts so that theyre more useful to this new world order of yours, and removing negative stigmas so they arent afraid to look for rehabilitation for fear of being ostracized
edit: this was meant to merge
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;47969420]If it's a necessary step towards preventing the normalization of destructive behaviours, I don't see another option.[/QUOTE]
How is this christlike in any reasonable fashion
man this thread just keeps on goin
[QUOTE=djzwicblaze;47970115]man this thread just keeps on goin[/QUOTE]
It's even better than Flameon's SJW crusade. At least you can kinda see where Flameon is coming from, just that he didn't explain his position very well. This guy labels everyone who disagrees with him a liberal and automatically assumes that that means their point is invalid. Not only that, he refuses to accept that his drinking habit is, in fact, just as much of an addiction as heavy marijuana users. Alcohol abuse is completely fine, yet recreational marijuana usage is "hedonistic" and "wasteful", and advocates what amounts to oppressing the "lower classes" in favour of the "bourgeois".
At this point he's either trolling or just straight up fucked in the head and a complete sociopath.
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;47968678]yo did you ever get high (srs question)[/QUOTE]
Has nothing to do with being able to value human life dude.
[QUOTE=Levithan;47969910]How is this christlike in any reasonable fashion[/QUOTE]
What do you know about being Christ-like?
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;47973708]What do you know about being Christ-like?[/QUOTE]
What do you?
[QUOTE=NikoChekhov;47973727]What do you?[/QUOTE]
I know that Christ isn't the happy all forgiving sky daddy you people are so ready to portray him as.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;47972146]Has nothing to do with being able to value human life dude.[/QUOTE]
yeah but it does help with seeing why his views are so disturbingly skewed and sheltered
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;47973757]I know that Christ isn't the happy all forgiving sky daddy you people are so ready to portray him as.[/QUOTE]
well it's pretty much impossible to argue with you because you'll readily assert what you believe is the most true, undeniable thing there is in regards to this topic disregarding any other arguments saying such things as
[QUOTE]Or they simply lack a fully informed view of what's best for society.[/QUOTE]
meaning not only do you not have any plans or intentions of ever being able to be convinced of anything you'll actively go out of your way to say people who disagree with you are wrong and ignorant of your truth.
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