Nvidia Fires Back: The Truth About GameWorks, AMD Optimization, and 'Watch Dogs'
62 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Skyward;44937839]Assassin's Creed 4 is pretty much the only worthwhile game in the series since 2.[/QUOTE]
4 still isn't nearly as good as 2/brotherhood anyways
[editline]29th May 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Matthew7434;44937763]Didn't Crysis 2 have water (which used Nvidia's tech to render) hidden under the maps and such, so that people with other brands would have bad preformance?
EDIT: Yep. [url]http://techreport.com/review/21404/crysis-2-tessellation-too-much-of-a-good-thing[/url][/QUOTE]
Crysis 2 was literally Halo: Modern Warfare to me
this just takes the cake though
[editline]29th May 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=seano12;44936746]Boycott Nvidia. It's up to us as customers to show Nvidia that we do not approve their anti-competitive ways.[/QUOTE]
I'm actually doubting nvidia did this considering it runs like piss even on nvidia cards so like yeah
[QUOTE=Brt5470;44937856]I feel like I'm the only one who hasn't had any issues running Ubisoft games. They all run great for me.[/QUOTE]
Well, you're the only one I've heard of. Most other people running overclocked Intel i5 CPUs and GeForce GTX x70 or x80 series cards from their respective generations experience lots of low framerates when playing games like AC3 and AC4, even on lower settings. And people using AMD hardware get it a lot worse too. What's your miraculous setup?
I chose Nvidia for my 560 because i had two faulty amd cards from overclockers.co.uk. Still i believe it's very important to keep the market competitive and Nvidia is pushing out AMD of the gpu market, right after intel pushed AMD out of the personal cpu market.
[QUOTE=draugur;44938192]Watch_Dogs is a joke anyway. I've had fun with it, but it's an absolute mockery of a game. Lots of invisible walls, no ability to jump because you obviously can't be trusted to find your own vantage points. "Open world" simply means a large city with no interiors sans like three buildings that aren't shops. It's like Mercenaries 2 but with hacking and less satisfying destruction.[/QUOTE]
You are aware almost no open world game has interior buildings? And jumping inmost realistic open world games have no real purpose if you can just vault over said objects. Thats like bitching about AC series not having a jump button when you have free run mode.
Everyone just has their panties in a bunch because it doesnt look like the tech demo at E3 and got way over hyped. The actual game is fun with loads of side missions and great multiplayer. People need to stop comparing the damn thing to gta5, especially when we don't have a pc port of it, and people forget how awful gta4 was at launch.
[QUOTE=Alice3173;44937952]How do you get "we're trying to make their performance worse" out of that? I'm getting more of a "we were too lazy/rushed to do a good job so you'll have to deal with shitty performance" vibe from it.[/QUOTE]
Think they were just, like you said, too lazy to remove it. When I screwed around in the Crysis 1 editor there was always a way to raise the water level. Even if it went completely under the level, it was still there, spanning the entire map.
Every Nvidia card I've ever had has fried itself and needed to be replaced, usually only after about 2 years or so. They lost me as a customer based on that, I've had AMD cards since then and they've been much better.
[QUOTE=Flyingman356;44940011]Every Nvidia card I've ever had has fried itself and needed to be replaced, usually only after about 2 years or so. They lost me as a customer based on that, I've had AMD cards since then and they've been much better.[/QUOTE]
Maybe I'm ignorant, but isn't that an issue with the manufacturer itself? I mean from what I understand most of these cards aren't produced directly by Nvidia, right?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;44936689]unless anyone has any actual facts about how much they are or aren't inhibiting innovation rather than he said she said stuff we're better off just not speculating.
[editline]28th May 2014[/editline]
like this
this is pure speculation as far as I can tell.[/QUOTE]
nvidia does push properietary technologies far more than AMD/ATI, though. (PhysX, gSync etc.)
[editline]29th May 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Flyingman356;44940011]Every Nvidia card I've ever had has fried itself and needed to be replaced, usually only after about 2 years or so. They lost me as a customer based on that, I've had AMD cards since then and they've been much better.[/QUOTE]
and how is this personal anecdote at all relevant the the topic at hand? i have relied on nvidia cards for as long as i've been building computers (and will continue to), but everybody has their own experiences with each brand
[quote]"We don't preclude them from changing anything and making it run better on AMD."[/quote]
That doesn't mean it's easy..
Game developers don't have time to make for example.. Physx run well on AMD, that's a huge undertaking which makes NVIDIA's argument completely irrelevant. It means they also have to buy a source license which I assume would cost a lot more.
Promoting developers to use their technology is making AMD hardware fall behind, there is no arguing that.
[QUOTE=Skanic;44937134]What do you excpect about UBISOFT games. Lets see what they fucked up. Far Cry 2, Rain bow six vegas 2, Watch Dogs, AC 4,Ghost Recon, Spliner Cell, Kane and Lynch 2, and probably many more.[/QUOTE]
AC4 was fine, it's AC3 that was a disaster.
[QUOTE=StrawberryClock;44940355]Maybe I'm ignorant, but isn't that an issue with the manufacturer itself? I mean from what I understand most of these cards aren't produced directly by Nvidia, right?[/QUOTE]
Nvidia manufactures the GPU and sends it to Evga, Asus etc. They put it on the pcb etc.
[QUOTE=Skanic;44937134]What do you excpect about UBISOFT games. Lets see what they fucked up. Far Cry 2, Rain bow six vegas 2, Watch Dogs, AC 4,Ghost Recon, Spliner Cell, Kane and Lynch 2, and probably many more.[/QUOTE]
They didn't make Kane And Lynch, when did Ubisoft release a Splinter Cell with issues?
[QUOTE=Skanic;44937134]What do you excpect about UBISOFT games. Lets see what they fucked up. Far Cry 2, Rain bow six vegas 2, Watch Dogs, AC 4,Ghost Recon, Spliner Cell, Kane and Lynch 2, and probably many more.[/QUOTE]
K&L was IO and Square Enix iirc
Also what is wrong with R6V2?
[QUOTE=draugur;44938192]Watch_Dogs is a joke anyway. I've had fun with it, but it's an absolute mockery of a game. [B]Lots of invisible walls, [/B]no ability to jump because you obviously can't be trusted to find your own vantage points. "Open world" simply means a large city with no interiors sans like three buildings that aren't shops. It's like Mercenaries 2 but with hacking and less satisfying destruction.[/QUOTE]
Glad to see you got your opinion from a pirated copy (The invisible walls). No ability to jump? You can jump over any obstacle Aiden is physically capable of doing by free running. You can find a ton of vantage points by free running, you just have to learn how to do it. And you can go into more than 3 three interiors.
[QUOTE=Matthew7434;44937763]Didn't Crysis 2 have water (which used Nvidia's tech to render) hidden under the maps and such, so that people with other brands would have bad preformance?
EDIT: Yep. [url]http://techreport.com/review/21404/crysis-2-tessellation-too-much-of-a-good-thing[/url][/QUOTE]
This was put to rest like less than a month after the DX11 patch came out. A Crytek employee specifically said that turning on wireframe would also show the ocean, it would be culled normally.
[QUOTE=Amiga OS;44940680]Every ATI card I've ever had has had flakey drivers and poor thermal design. Not to mention my HD4890 actually tripped the breakers in the house when I booted a PC with it in, it had a GTX260 in it 10 minutes beforehand.[/QUOTE]
Every ATI card maybe, the new lines of AMD cards are fantastic.
[QUOTE=reevezy67;44940769]Every ATI card maybe, the new lines of AMD cards are fantastic.[/QUOTE]
AMD still have not fixed the multiple monitor cursor bug and I was getting BSODs to do with AMD's drivers when watching YouTube videos. That was one of the deciding factors when I decided to get a 780Ti.
[QUOTE=Skanic;44937134]What do you excpect about UBISOFT games. Lets see what they fucked up. Far Cry 2, Rain bow six vegas 2, Watch Dogs, AC 4,Ghost Recon, Spliner Cell, Kane and Lynch 2, and probably many more.[/QUOTE]
Far Cry 2 was a fine game, the respawning checkpoints and lack of differentiation between factions was a bit shit but other than that it was a solid game. And weapon degradation was dumb, everyone can agree with that.
Rainbow 6 Vegas 2 was basically identical to R6V1, both were good games that didn't run well on PCs.
Watch Dogs is fine. "It doesn't look like the E3 demo from 2012! FALSE ADVERTISING!" It doesn't look like the old E3 demo, but it looks exactly like the gameplay footage they were releasing before the game came out.
Assassin's Creed 4 was a great game, what are you smoking?
Splinter Cell Blacklist was a really good game, they're unlikely to go back to what Conviction was.
Kane and Lynch was made by Eidos and published by Square Enix. If you're going to bitch at least know what the fuck you're talking about.
[QUOTE=SteveUK;44940793]AMD still have not fixed the multiple monitor cursor bug and I was getting BSODs to do with AMD's drivers when watching YouTube videos. That was one of the deciding factors when I decided to get a 780Ti.[/QUOTE]
I've never had that issue.
I have had more issues with my nvidia cards. Everyone has issues with GPU's.
It's impossible to say for sure whether one company is better than the other, especially considering it's a different story for each card and vendor.
Heh, this reminds me of a thing a long while back with the original Crysis.
For some reason, if you had an AMD card but you spoofed the Device ID/Vendor ID on the game's side to an equivalent nvidia card (Radeon HD 3870 to 8800 GT, for example), there'd be a noticable boost in performance.
I don't really have a source, though, I forgot where I read this.
[QUOTE=Rika-chan;44940675]K&L was IO and Square Enix iirc
Also what is wrong with R6V2?[/QUOTE]
it ran like shiiiiiiiit.
I played way too much R6Vegas, and Vegas 2 was pretty good, but it just ran like shit.
[QUOTE=Alice3173;44937952]How do you get "we're trying to make their performance worse" out of that? I'm getting more of a "we were too lazy/rushed to do a good job so you'll have to deal with shitty performance" vibe from it.[/QUOTE]
Nvidia cards do tesselation better than other cards. Knowing Nvidia, this is something up their alley.
[QUOTE=Flyingman356;44940011]Every Nvidia card I've ever had has fried itself and needed to be replaced, usually only after about 2 years or so. They lost me as a customer based on that, I've had AMD cards since then and they've been much better.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=StrawberryClock;44940355]Maybe I'm ignorant, but isn't that an issue with the manufacturer itself? I mean from what I understand most of these cards aren't produced directly by Nvidia, right?[/QUOTE]
Flyingman356, what brand have you been using?
I've never had a card fry on me
not only that but it doesn't mean nvidia cards are bad because you specifically have issues with them. Then again, its not like you're saying others have that issue.
that and user habits are a big deal but that is all redundant.
Stuff fails get over it. Try another vendor.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;44944510]it ran like shiiiiiiiit.
I played way too much R6Vegas, and Vegas 2 was pretty good, but it just ran like shit.[/QUOTE]
I couldn't even get Kane & Lynch to [I]run[/I], even when I built a top of the line PC less than 2 years ago.
[QUOTE=Matthew7434;44962591]Knowing Nvidia, this is something up their alley.[/QUOTE]
And that is entirely speculation. There is nothing at all in that article to suggest it was done on purpose to force people to have worse performance, let alone by nVidia.
[QUOTE=.Lain;44940371]nvidia does push properietary technologies far more than AMD/ATI, though. (PhysX, gSync etc.)[/QUOTE]
PhysX is a great example of how people are being unfair to nVidia. PhysX is, at its core, a set of firmware meant for physics cards that takes advantage of their processing optimization to offload processing that would normally be performed by the CPU. It's reliant on the specific architecture it was designed for. When you run PhysX on a standard GPU, it can do the same thing only because the newer nVidia GPUs were designed to have that same standardized architecture, so it can treat the GPU just like a physics card.
If nVidia were simply trying to lock AMD out, why wouldn't PhysX be compatible with older nVidia cards? It wasn't about the brand, it was a physical limitation of the hardware- only new nVidia cards (at the time) were physically designed to work with PhysX, and anything else had to emulate at a performance cost.
nVidia pushes proprietary hardware-based technologies based on novel chip architecture. AMD pushes software-based technologies based on novel programming algorithms. AMD's approach is more crossplatform-friendly, but that doesn't mean it's inherently better, just a different approach.
[QUOTE=Matthew7434;44937763]Didn't Crysis 2 have water (which used Nvidia's tech to render) hidden under the maps and such, so that people with other brands would have bad preformance?
EDIT: Yep. [url]http://techreport.com/review/21404/crysis-2-tessellation-too-much-of-a-good-thing[/url][/QUOTE]
That's not a "feature" to make other brands perform worse. It's how (badly) the Cryengine works; you extrude the land from below the water, but the mesh is still there.
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