[QUOTE=Mingebox;28151333]It's pretty obvious why Facepunch wants this. Most everyone is a HL2 fanboy, and they want to be Combine IRL.[/QUOTE]
No I want to be dog duh.
And then someone makes a virus.
[QUOTE=dass;28151465]I don't know if I should see you as a troll or as being right...
I really don't...
What is for sure is that Facepunch saw in science fiction as "what will really happen", minus aliens blasting us to pieces. What Facepunch saw of good and bad ass, Facepunch thinks it will be that way.
Not to say it wont, but I don't see anyone in the next 50 years being a fully functioning cyborg or anything near that.[/QUOTE]
So long as I live to be 200 or so, that shouldn't be an issue.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;28152113]So long as I live to be 200 or so, that shouldn't be an issue.[/QUOTE]
I somehow don't see that being something good.
I just don't.
Hmm...
If I were to go ahead with something like that, it would need to come without the fatal flaws current machines have. As in, the body would need to be safe from magnetism. Also, the one thing that truly frightens me is whether such builds would be susceptible to computer viruses. Suddenly simple hacking can turn into biological warfare.
But Hell, I'd love to be able to live as long as I'd like, possibly with improved mental capacities. Just so long as our feelings aren't removed by the new-found capacity for logic.
[QUOTE=dass;28152241]I somehow don't see that being something good.
I just don't.[/QUOTE]
That would be because you're a luddite pussy who can't deal with change.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;28150041]
are you one of those people who believes in fucking psi energy or some shit
[/QUOTE]
No. While we do know how certain parts of our body function, one of the most controversial and scientifically unsolved issues are those of the brain and mind.
Get back to me when you find a conclusive scientific study that pinpoints and finds the way our brain functions, how the mind works, and what are the capabilities of our brains.
It may take you a few years, maybe 10, 20, 50, or 100. Maybe never. So before we commit ourselves to the idea that converting ourselves to machines is the best path, we should try to figure out who we are and how we function before making such drastic changes.
[QUOTE=Kontradaz;28154631]No. While we do know how certain parts of our body function, one of the most controversial and scientifically unsolved issues are those of the brain and mind.
Get back to me when you find a conclusive scientific study that pinpoints and finds the way our brain functions, how the mind works, and what are the capabilities of our brains.
It may take you a few years, maybe 10, 20, 50, or 100. Maybe never. So before we commit ourselves to the idea that converting ourselves to machines is the best path, we should try to figure out who we are and how we function before making such drastic changes.[/QUOTE]
that's the fucking silliest and most ignorant request i've ever heard
You do realize that neurology is an entire field of science, right? And you expect there to be some point in the future where anyone would be able to present you with a "conclusive scientific study" explaining [I]every single thing that is explored in that field?[/I]
Maybe if you want an explanation of how the brain functions you should do what real doctors do and take a fucking college course instead of making statements on the internet about how the human brain is a mystery wrapped within an enigma.
Power outage
Billions die and are then subsequently reborn.
is it right for people to be immortal?
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;28154771]that's the fucking silliest and most ignorant request i've ever heard
You do realize that neurology is an entire field of science, right? And you expect there to be some point in the future where anyone would be able to present you with a "conclusive scientific study" explaining [I]every single thing that is explored in that field?[/I]
Maybe if you want an explanation of how the brain functions you should do what real doctors do and take a fucking college course instead of making statements on the internet about how the human brain is a mystery wrapped within an enigma.[/QUOTE]
That doesn't even get at my point. Yes, neurology has made advanced into how the brain works, but it has not even gotten close to scratching the surface of some of the major questions.
As far as I know, we are still largely in the dark regarding issues such as qualia and how our mind processes consciousness. There are countless fields of psychology that have differing viewpoints on how we function as human beings, and many of these fields don't agree with each other. Had the study of neurology reached a point wherein it would be able to explain many of the questions and issues of the human brain, maybe most of those psychological fields will be ruled moot. But, they have not been.
Indeed, the human brain is still a mystery to us and it will take us far more research until we can actually conclude and resolve some of the many issues that are currently unsolved.
[QUOTE=RAG Frag;28154976]is it right for people to be immortal?[/QUOTE]
tell me how immoral it is to live forever when you're dead, k
[editline]19th February 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kontradaz;28154986]That doesn't even get at my point. Yes, neurology has made advanced into how the brain works, but it has not even gotten close to scratching the surface of some of the major questions.
As far as I know, we are still largely in the dark regarding issues such as qualia and how our mind processes consciousness. There are countless fields of psychology that have differing viewpoints on how we function as human beings, and many of these fields don't agree with each other. Had the study of neurology reached a point wherein it would be able to explain many of the questions and issues of the human brain, maybe most of those psychological fields will be ruled moot. But, they have not been.
Indeed, the human brain is still a mystery to us and it will take us far more research until we can actually conclude and resolve some of the many issues that are currently unsolved.[/QUOTE]
What the fuck does "process consciousness" even fucking mean? Are you saying we're in the dark as to what consciousness is? What the fuck does that have to do with "the potential of the brain"?
Hell, what the fuck does any of this have to do with the "potential" of the human brain? You're talking about fucking psychology, which by the way has made vast strides with the help of Neurology.
Nice thesaurus definition of consciousness by the way.
[editline]19th February 2011[/editline]
You're just spouting the same five questions that every stoner prick that hasn't actually done any research into the brain asks while they're high.
I don't want to live forever.
[QUOTE=SoaringScout;28155454]I don't want to live forever.[/QUOTE]
More life for me then. I personally dont see why anyone would ever want to die. being a live is so much better then being dead.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;28155632]More life for me then. I personally dont see why anyone would ever want to die. being a live is so much better then being dead.[/QUOTE]
Have you been dead before???
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;28155143]
What the fuck does "process consciousness" even fucking mean? Are you saying we're in the dark as to what consciousness is? What the fuck does that have to do with "the potential of the brain"?
Hell, what the fuck does any of this have to do with the "potential" of the human brain? You're talking about fucking psychology, which by the way has made vast strides with the help of Neurology.
Nice thesaurus definition of consciousness by the way.
[editline]19th February 2011[/editline]
You're just spouting the same five questions that every stoner prick that hasn't actually done any research into the brain asks while they're high.[/QUOTE]
Consciousness, and all the related factors and how our body processes it, is still widely unknown. I hate to use Wikipedia, but here is a short example: "Issues of practical concern include how the presence of consciousness can be assessed in severely ill or comatose people; whether non-human consciousness exists and if so how it can be measured; at what point in fetal development consciousness begins; and whether computers can achieve a conscious state". So, yes, we are still in the dark regarding it.
This is simply one example of what we do not know about our body, focusing on the brain. And yes, I am talking about psychology, which yes, has made vast strides with the help of neurology. But has neurology solved many of the issues prevalent in psychology? No. This is proven by the existence of researchers and scientists that have differing opinions and subscribe to different psychological systems. Let me repeat, until neurology solves the questions and issues regarding the human brain, there will not be a clear and concise understanding on how the brain functions. And even then, neurology may not be the only answer....
How about you do some research? How about you take some college classes? Stop digging your own grave in this subject.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;28155652]Have you been dead before???[/QUOTE]
i will tell you guys how death is like when I'm dead.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;28155652]Have you been dead before???[/QUOTE]
No but it doesnt seem that fun. You never see dead people saying how great it is do you?
[QUOTE=Kontradaz;28155666]Consciousness, and all the related factors and how our body processes it, is still widely unknown. I hate to use Wikipedia, but here is a short example: "Issues of practical concern include how the presence of consciousness can be assessed in severely ill or comatose people; whether non-human consciousness exists and if so how it can be measured; at what point in fetal development consciousness begins; and whether computers can achieve a conscious state". So, yes, we are still in the dark regarding it.
This is simply one example of what we do not know about our body, focusing on the brain. And yes, I am talking about psychology, which yes, has made vast strides with the help of neurology. But has neurology solved many of the issues prevalent in psychology? No. This is proven by the existence of researchers and scientists that have differing opinions and subscribe to different psychological systems. Let me repeat, until neurology solves the questions and issues regarding the human brain, there will not be a clear and concise understanding on how the brain functions. And even then, neurology may not be the only answer....
How about you do some research? How about you take some college classes? Stop digging your own grave in this subject.[/QUOTE]
well of course we can't fucking well measure consciousness
you haven't fucking defined it
unless we're going by the bare bones medical definition in which case that just comes down to being able to respond to outside stimulous.
The problem here is that you're going by some sort of weird mystical definition of consciousness in which it's some mysterious zen state instead of the far more likely reality in which it's just a byproduct of multiple brain functions interacting.
No, we haven't perfectly modeled and analyzed the brain yet. I thought that was the fucking point of the technological singularity, that that's when we actually [I]do[/I] achieve that.
And how about [I]you[/I] actually learn what the fuck you're talking about before [I]you[/I] make the claims.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;28153916]That would be because you're a luddite pussy who can't deal with change.[/QUOTE]
Or maybe because you could end up being close to brain dead at that age, among other things.
People 100 years old can sometimes barely talk and be understood right. I could only imagine how badly it would be being 200 years old.
Just think of it. 180 years ago, you used to be at the prime of your shape (maybe).
I [i]highly[/i] doubt anyone would be able to double his/her lifespan and STILL be able to live a good life without a shitload of medication or something else.
That assuming there even is a way to extend someone's lifespan that long.
[editline]19th February 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;28155632]More life for me then. I personally dont see why anyone would ever want to die. being a live is so much better then being dead.[/QUOTE]
Check back on me when everyone you know is dead. Tell me how great it is to live without your loved ones.
[QUOTE=dass;28155858]Check back on me when everyone you know is dead. Tell me how great it is to live without your loved ones.[/QUOTE]
I know many people who have dead. Sure its bad but the pain of having dead loved ones is better then not being able to love again or feel anything for that matter.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;28155809]well of course we can't fucking well measure consciousness
you haven't fucking defined it
unless we're going by the bare bones medical definition in which case that just comes down to being able to respond to outside stimulous.
The problem here is that you're going by some sort of weird mystical definition of consciousness in which it's some mysterious zen state instead of the far more likely reality in which it's just a byproduct of multiple brain functions interacting.
No, we haven't perfectly modeled and analyzed the brain yet. I thought that was the fucking point of the technological singularity, that that's when we actually [I]do[/I] achieve that.
And how about [I]you[/I] actually learn what the fuck you're talking about before [I]you[/I] make the claims.[/QUOTE]
"The state or condition of being conscious."; our mind, and our perception of the environment.
It most likely is a product of multiple brain functions interacting. The point I have been trying to make is that we don't know what those functions are, and what their individual components and effects are. Without this knowledge, we cannot begin to conclude that our brains are limited and we must convert to some pseudo-scientific idea of a cyborg or machine. It may be that when we do reach the capability of modeling the brain we will be able to achieve some sort of singularity, but that is beyond our reach and understanding for now; for all we know, such a path to singularity may be incompatible with our bodies and existence.
My original response was to a person claiming that our brains are limited and thus to be ruled null by some future invention or singularity. Until we actually know how our brains function, we cannot begin to claim they are too limited and must be replaced by some other invention. And even then, in order to make such an invention we first have to have a complete understanding of our bodies (a model, as you say).
I don't know what you are trying to achieve with this discussion, to be honest.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;28155809]well of course we can't fucking well measure consciousness
you haven't fucking defined it
unless we're going by the bare bones medical definition in which case that just comes down to being able to respond to outside stimulous.
The problem here is that you're going by some sort of weird mystical definition of consciousness in which it's some mysterious zen state instead of the far more likely reality in which it's just a byproduct of multiple brain functions interacting.
No, we haven't perfectly modeled and analyzed the brain yet. I thought that was the fucking point of the technological singularity, that that's when we actually [I]do[/I] achieve that.
And how about [I]you[/I] actually learn what the fuck you're talking about before [I]you[/I] make the claims.[/QUOTE]
Consciousness and self-awareness isn't some 'mysterious zen state', but it is a huge fucking mystery. There's a HUGE difference between receiving, processing and responding to sensory data (which a computer does just fine) and 'experiencing' (which computers do NOT currently do). Consciousness... self-awareness; our experiencing of the entire universe around us makes next to no sense within any field of science right now.
Consciousness IS a huge area of interest both scientifically and philosophically, and do you know why that is? Because we don't fucking understand it yet. Because it's human nature to try to understand the unknown.
Kontradaz is right here.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;28156002]I know many people who have dead. Sure its bad but the pain of having dead loved ones is better then not being able to love again or feel anything for that matter.[/QUOTE]
So, its better to feel pain, then not feeling anything?
:psyduck: What?
[QUOTE=dass;28156358]So, its better to feel pain, then not feeling anything?
:psyduck: What?[/QUOTE]
Yes. Well thats just me anyway. Even pain is a feeling and while it isnt nice compared to feeling happy its better then feeling nothing. Personally I don't mind feeling sad If I have a reason to feel sad. I would rather feel sad for someone I knows death then feel nothing at all.
[editline]19th February 2011[/editline]
Oh and it wouldn't be impossible to take out bad feelings if you really wanted to.
[QUOTE=dass;28156358]So, its better to feel pain, then not feeling anything?
:psyduck: What?[/QUOTE]
Imagine your very thoughts being paralyzed, that's probably a lot like what death is.
I wouldn't mind having my brain put in a robot when I'm getting really old and decrepit, so long as I can still emotion., but for now I'm perfectly fine as an ugly bag of mostly water.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;28156668]Imagine your very thoughts being paralyzed, that's probably a lot like what death is.[/QUOTE]
Remember before you were born? That's what death is.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;28157148]I wouldn't mind having my brain put in a robot when I'm getting really old and decrepit, so long as I can still emotion., but for now I'm perfectly fine as an ugly bag of mostly water.
Remember before you were born? That's what death is.[/QUOTE]
Well if I'm alive right now, not existing wasn't all that great.
The more news I read as of late, the less long I want people to live.
[QUOTE=DanRatherman;28157535]The more news I read as of late, the less long I want people to live.[/QUOTE]
Oh sorry great one, that my small pathetic mind is not as all encompassing as yours, please forgive this pathetic mortal that types before you.
In all seriousness though, that's the most arrogant nob headish thing you could ever say.
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