• Anders Behring Breivik gets his own prison psych ward; will have friends over to play chess and hock
    215 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;36539407]As extremely satisfying as it would have been to just gut the man and hang him by the balls on the public place, the Norwegian government still decided to be bigger than that and gave him the same judgement as any other criminal regardless of his reputation. That part is the respectable part. What I otherwise don't get is why they decided to build a damn psych ward just for the guy. There's treating criminals like human beings and then there's treating criminals a[B] tad too good considered what some of them have done.[/B] I think this is getting into the second category.[/QUOTE] No. Criminals are people too. A lot of them commited crimes due to circumstances outside their control, such as financial desperation and mental instability, while those might not apply to Breivik.
Not going to side with the people who think he should be killed, Norway's justice system should be respected and all. But this is so fucking wrong.
I wonder if the tax dollars of any of his victims went towards doing this lmao
They don't want him spreading his ideological bullshit around.
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;36540399]How is it a slippery slope? Killing murderers doesn't mean the government will start killing dissenters.[/QUOTE] Yes, but it does open up opportunities for mistakes to be made. Case and point, innocent life that gets ended in America by the death penalty.
[QUOTE=NoNameForEvil;36540929]Giving people nice lives in prison is not a good form of rehabilitation, it doesn't deter them from a life of crime; if there's no actual penalty to committing crimes, then what reason is there to not commit them?[/QUOTE] Let me answer your question with a philosophical question that applies to all non-psychopathic criminals and people. If there is no punishment for sin, what prevents you from committing sin if you are an atheist who doesn't believe in hell? Would you murder a man you dislike if you knew you could get away with it scot-free? Would you rape a woman if you knew she would not speak of it? Moving away from Breivik to the general prison population, the fact is these prisons do their utmost to show that you are a respected member of society, and they integrate you in such a way that you can get a job and your life back so committing crime is not necessary. In the US they try to scare you with prison, yet they arrest more, and the people who are spit out of the prison system are not integrated into the society, thus relapse and are re-incarcerated. Statistics are clear on this.
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;36541347]How do you know what his mental state will be in ten years? Twenty? [/QUOTE] Why in the fuck do you care? He should be dead. He is a murderer, and you can't undo that. [QUOTE=Zezibesh;36541347]The point of human rights is that you can't lose them. Killing people does not make you non-human. [/QUOTE] Fuck punishment for crimes it infringes on his rights. I'm all for the openness of society, but some of you people are taking it too fucking far. You still deserve [b]punishment[/b] when you do bad things. When you kill someone, and it was proven you did it with clear intent, you should die. Anders here is a prime example. [editline]29th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Boxbot219;36546185]Yes, but it does open up opportunities for mistakes to be made. Case and point, innocent life that gets ended in America by the death penalty.[/QUOTE] I already talked about this. [editline]29th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=mac338;36546402]Let me answer your question with a philosophical question that applies to all non-psychopathic criminals and people. If there is no punishment for sin, what prevents you from committing sin if you are an atheist who doesn't believe in hell? Would you murder a man you dislike if you knew you could get away with it scot-free? Would you rape a woman if you knew she would not speak of it? Moving away from Breivik to the general prison population, the fact is these prisons do their utmost to show that you are a respected member of society, and they integrate you in such a way that you can get a job and your life back so committing crime is not necessary. In the US they try to scare you with prison, yet they arrest more, and the people who are spit out of the prison system are not integrated into the society, thus relapse and are re-incarcerated. Statistics are clear on this.[/QUOTE] You do know why though? The fucking war on drugs. It has brought so many petty users to jail instead of going after cartels and mobsters like they said it would. After people get arrested for some weed and do some time, that's what they know and can't adjust. It's not because the US doesn't rehabilitate murderers, rapists, etc, it's because we have a shitty stance towards drug usage.
[QUOTE=NoNameForEvil;36540929]Giving people nice lives in prison is not a good form of rehabilitation, it doesn't deter them from a life of crime; if there's no actual penalty to committing crimes, then what reason is there to not commit them?[/QUOTE] basic human decency totally went out the window then, did it? apparently just giving prisoners reasonably nice rooms means the concept of universal human rights no longer applies to anyone else. even ignoring that, why would someone planning to commit a crime stop in his tracks because he could could go to a shittier prison? let's say I'm planning to kill someone - and I mean I'm totally convicted to the idea - why would I stop plotting when I realize I could potentially face prison time? I'm already plotting the murder of another person, I've either got (what seem to me) good reasons or I'm legitimately insane. I'll either put it out of my mind and murder anyway, [I]not care[/I] and murder anyway, or hope that I don't get caught [B]and murder anyway[/B]. if someone actually plans to kill someone else and they're actually going to go through with it, why would they stop at that point when they clearly have issues that go beyond what happens after the crime takes place? and then there's crimes that aren't even planned. sometimes people just flip the fuck out in the heat of the moment, or they're easily angered or abusive towards other people. these crimes are totally impossible to stop because the criminal does not think of the consequences of his/her actions, as the only reason they're committed in the first place is that they don't think ahead. so if having a nicer prison doesn't affect people committing crimes nor people who aren't committing crimes (i.e. everyone), why in the fuck would it help deterrence? [editline]29th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=purvisdavid1;36546771]When you kill someone, and it was proven you did it with clear intent, you should die.[/QUOTE] [I]why[/I] and try not to answer without just rephrasing this or saying basically anything that's subjective, I don't think a matter of opinion should govern a state nor should it affect someone's rights
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;36546771]It's not because the US doesn't rehabilitate murderers, rapists, etc, it's because we have a shitty stance towards drug usage.[/QUOTE] Maybe they should try. Norway has a pretty good track record or rehabilitating those. [QUOTE=KaIibos;36544733]I wonder if the tax dollars of any of his victims went towards doing this lmao[/QUOTE] Good thing they don't use dollars in Norway :)
IIRC Breivik made a statement about how they need to lock him up for longer.
Imagine having to describe your job as a professional friend of a mass murderer
[QUOTE=mac338;36546402]Let me answer your question with a philosophical question that applies to all non-psychopathic criminals and people. If there is no punishment for sin, what prevents you from committing sin if you are an atheist who doesn't believe in hell? Would you murder a man you dislike if you knew you could get away with it scot-free? Would you rape a woman if you knew she would not speak of it? Moving away from Breivik to the general prison population, the fact is these prisons do their utmost to show that you are a respected member of society, and they integrate you in such a way that you can get a job and your life back so committing crime is not necessary. In the US they try to scare you with prison, yet they arrest more, and the people who are spit out of the prison system are not integrated into the society, thus relapse and are re-incarcerated. Statistics are clear on this.[/QUOTE] Hear hear
[QUOTE=Loriborn;36539838]Give people a sense of justice and ensure this guy doesn't have the ability to continue killing people. I hate the death penalty, but it's really hard to just sit here and say "Respect the killer's rights" when he obviously did not when he murdered countless innocent people. The life he'll be living is actually [b]better[/b] than my own, and he killed people.[/QUOTE] Incoming boxes for stating your opinion from people thinking a monster should get better living than most people in the world. Pretty damn fair if you ask me. Not at all. [editline]29th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=FPChris;36539882]The whole reason that so many great countries don't have death penalties is because they want to really punish the criminals, leave them with their guilt, stress and what not for the rest of their lives. Death might seem like the worst penalty but it's done in a second. (And more expensive)[/QUOTE] Yes because everyone that commits a terrible crime must feel guilty right? How do you know? Some of them probably don't give two shits about what they did. They get free healthcare, food, water, and other accommodations. [editline]29th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=lemonlimecom;36539909]You guys do realize that the reason they're doing this is for the safety of the other prisoners, right?[/QUOTE] Or to keep the prisoners from potentially tearing him apart, who knows if some of the prisoners had family with one of the people he killed.
[QUOTE] mac338 posted: Let me answer your question with a philosophical question that applies to all non-psychopathic criminals and people. If there is no punishment for sin, what prevents you from committing sin if you are an atheist who doesn't believe in hell? Would you murder a man you dislike if you knew you could get away with it scot-free? Would you rape a woman if you knew she would not speak of it? Moving away from Breivik to the general prison population, the fact is these prisons do their utmost to show that you are a respected member of society, and they integrate you in such a way that you can get a job and your life back so committing crime is not necessary. In the US they try to scare you with prison, yet they arrest more, and the people who are spit out of the prison system are not integrated into the society, thus relapse and are re-incarcerated. Statistics are clear on this.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Mooe94;36547478]Couldn't be further from the truth. Or so to speak.[/QUOTE] Oh. Okay then. Are we meant to take this at face value? Back up your statements, dude.
So for committing a crime in Norway you get to live in a three star hotel? Wow
[QUOTE=znk666;36548836]So for committing a crime in Norway you get to live in a three star hotel? Wow[/QUOTE] No, you get [highlight]REHABILITATION [/highlight] You from that moment, are cut from the rest of the world. If he won't ever be free, Norway makes it so that his stay in jail would be humane at least. Everyone has human rights, it's just that shitty american jails violate most of them. Norway is prime example of how jails are supposed to be.
[QUOTE=overpain;36549026]No, you get [highlight]REHABILITATION [/highlight] You from that moment, are cut from the rest of the world. If he won't ever be free, Norway makes it so that his stay in jail would be humane at least. Everyone has human rights, it's just that shitty american jails violate most of them.[B] Norway is prime example of how jails are supposed to be.[/B][/QUOTE] So you're okay with the whole "kill dozens of people and laugh while doing it, be proud about it in the relatives faces then recieve a near hotel-like state of living without any sort of fear for the rest of your life?" TBH I really dislike the way they are heading with their system. Unless they 100% proof rehabilitate (which already is a thing that won't work if a. he can trick them or b. anyone sees him on the street) there is an ever bigger chance this will end badly. I honestly don't know what to think anymore about this
[QUOTE=MendozaMan;36549053]So you're okay with the whole "kill dozens of people and laugh while doing it, be proud about it in the relatives faces then recieve a near hotel-like state of living without any sort of fear for the rest of your life?" TBH I really dislike the way they are heading with their system. Unless they 100% proof rehabilitate (which already is a thing that won't work if a. he can trick them or b. anyone sees him on the street) there is an ever bigger chance this will end badly. I honestly don't know what to think anymore about this[/QUOTE] They are still humans, and have human rights, unlike you all think in america. The crime doesn't matter, human rights still applies to everyone. [editline]29th June 2012[/editline] It's still life sentence, its just given prisoner something to do in that time. It would be better in your opinion that he would rot all his life and and after 20 years he would SURELY be insane?
We have to accept that at birth our brains are highly susceptible to adopting murderous behaviours via conditioning and behavioural biology. I feel that he should be treated as a human, in order that he may be studied so that we can learn what exactly went wrong with him. If we do not learn how these people are created, they will always exist.
Look, I get the rehabitation thing and human rights etc. But seriously, if he ever manages to get free and be right, WHAT THE FUCK WILL HE DO? Every fucking body knows that he is a mass-murderer. I do not believe that there are many places where he could ever get a job. For not-Breivik-Insane people, the Norweigen jail system is awesome. But for Breivik, no. He is a special occasion, seriously. He shouldn't be treated that well. I know that a long time ago they had those Jail-Factory thingies, where the criminals worked in factories. Now there Breivik might work after like 5-10 years. And even then the security would have to be prettty tight. But to build a factory like that for one person, it would be really fucking dumb. [sp]oh god i am totally crossing away from my point and i am scared that people won't get my point anyways[/sp]
[QUOTE=tratzzz;36549366]Look, I get the rehabitation thing and human rights etc. But seriously, if he ever manages to get free and be right, WHAT THE FUCK WILL HE DO? Every fucking body knows that he is a mass-murderer. I do not believe that there are many places where he could ever get a job.[/QUOTE] he'd probably have a social support worker to help him find work, or at least to give him some kind of occupation. plus the citizens of Norway actually seem fairly eager to help him, and I know most are rational, empathetic people, so hopefully if he ever is fixed he'll find work. [QUOTE]He shouldn't be treated that well.[/QUOTE] hey, if they're gonna try and help him be less crazy, they're going to need a lot of rehabilitative measures to fix him. if he's going to have even the slimmest hope of getting better, they'll need exactly what the doctors order, and I don't think they're liable to give up on him now that they've established themselves as a country that works to help absolutely everyone they can.
[QUOTE=Mordi;36548068]Oh. Okay then. Are we meant to take this at face value? Back up your statements, dude.[/QUOTE] holy shit, sorry. I meant the complete opposite, actually. I'm quite tired after staying up all night, but what I meant to write was "Couldn't be NEARER the truth", lol
Fucking hell, some of you guys are maniacs.
While I normally like how Norwegian prisons work, why does he get outsiders playing with him? I mean, their goal seems to be rehabilitating criminals while still keeping them insulated from the rest of the world, for the necessary time. Having people stroll in and out of his cell to play games and discuss things seems a little... off.
[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;36550335]While I normally like how Norwegian prisons work, why does he get outsiders playing with him? I mean, their goal seems to be rehabilitating criminals while still keeping them insulated from the rest of the world, for the necessary time. Having people stroll in and out of his cell to play games and discuss things seems a little... off.[/QUOTE] No outsiders will be playing with him. The only people he will see, probably for the rest of his life are the people who work in the prison. Since he can not even communicate with other prisoners, they hired "friends" for him. That's the people who will play hockey and chess with him.
Job description: "must play hockey with a mass murderer" NOPENOPENOPENOPENOPE
someone killed a few dozen people gets treated better than people down on their luck and living on the streets fucking SMART. [media][URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35TbGjt-weA[/URL][/media]
[QUOTE=SatansSin;36554324]someone killed a few dozen people gets treated better than people down on their luck and living on the streets fucking SMART. [/QUOTE] More than a "few" dozen, killed 77 people. I generally agree with Norways rehabilitation program, but I really think the special task force should have just shot this guy on sight. Given the fact that they effectively knew exactly what was going on, it seems infinitely strange to me that they didn't just treat him as a hostile combatant (which he was) and fire upon him on sight. It's actually fairly irresponsible that he [I]wasn't[/I] shot on scene, the fact that they didn't immediately start shooting at him could have potentially led to him running away or killing/injuring more people. But, now they've committed to rehabilitation and it's ultimately their responsibility to follow it through. Though I do agree his living conditions seem above the standard...
21 years for murder, same as someone else. Okay I can get that. But he killed 77 people. So fucking slap on 77 consecutive sentences of 21 years, please
21 years is the *maximum* sentence. Not the maximum sentence for [I]one[/I] crime, it's the *maximum* sentence, period.
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