Anders Behring Breivik gets his own prison psych ward; will have friends over to play chess and hock
215 replies, posted
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;36554990]More than a "few" dozen, killed 77 people.
I generally agree with Norways rehabilitation program, but I really think the special task force should have just shot this guy on sight. Given the fact that they effectively knew exactly what was going on, it seems infinitely strange to me that they didn't just treat him as a hostile combatant (which he was) and fire upon him on sight. It's actually fairly irresponsible that he [I]wasn't[/I] shot on scene, the fact that they didn't immediately start shooting at him could have potentially led to him running away or killing/injuring more people.[/QUOTE]
I think it's pretty common standard pretty much everywhere that if someone surrenders (Like Breivik did), you just [I]don't fucking shoot at them[/I] unless they start threatening (which they probably wouldn't do when surrendering).
[QUOTE=TheTalon;36555009]21 years for murder, same as someone else. Okay I can get that. But he killed 77 people. So fucking slap on 77 consecutive sentences of 21 years, please[/QUOTE]Are facepunchers allergic to reading or something?
[QUOTE=TheTalon;36555009]21 years for murder, same as someone else. Okay I can get that. But he killed 77 people. So fucking slap on 77 consecutive sentences of 21 years, please[/QUOTE]
It doesn't work like that in Norway, like has been said a billion times, the sentence can be extended indefinitely if necessary.
He may not need to be executed, but he shouldn't have such luxury!
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;36555084]He may not need to be executed, but he shouldn't have such luxury![/QUOTE]
It's not about giving him luxury, it's about isolating him from everyone else, both for their and his own safety.
If this is what they need to do to keep him isolated in case the ruling ([I]which isn't ready yet guys[/I]) is that he needs psychiatric care, then I am absolutely fine with this.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;36555066]21 years is the *maximum* sentence. Not the maximum sentence for [I]one[/I] crime, it's the *maximum* sentence, period.[/QUOTE]As has been mentioned ad nauseam in this thread, is simply the maximum sentence a person can serve with no possibility of parole, after that their threat to society is evaluated and their sentence extended for another 5 years if they're deemed to still be a threat.
A mod should really put that in the OP in gigantic bold letters so we don't have to go over this on every page of every single Breivik thread.
[QUOTE=LarparNar;36555069]I think it's pretty common standard pretty much everywhere that if someone surrenders (Like Breivik did), you just [I]don't fucking shoot at them[/I] unless they start threatening (which they probably wouldn't do when surrendering).[/QUOTE]
For him to surrender I think they must have said "surrender!" or at least made their "police" presence extremely obvious. Both are very bad ideas given that they knew what was going on, they were getting many of phonecalls from terrified teenagers explicitly saying that some man was going around massacring people with a rifle.
Honestly if this guy had actually been a deranged psychopathic murderer instead of an extremely narcissistic twat this situation could have easily ended up much worse, in fact in all likelihood that was far more likely to be the situation. He might have blown himself up while surrendering, fired upon the police when they called out to him to surrender, or simply bolted off and continued his massacre.
There shouldn't be "benfifit of the doubt" when dealing with mass murders in progress.
[QUOTE=lemonlimecom;36539909]You guys do realize that the reason they're doing this is for the safety of the other prisoners, right?[/QUOTE]
In what form of danger are the 'other' prisoners in? Its his life that would be in danger
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;36555200]For him to surrender I think they must have said "surrender!" or at least made their "police" presence extremely obvious. Both are very bad ideas given that they knew what was going on, they were getting many of phonecalls from terrified teenagers explicitly saying that some man was going around massacring people with a rifle.
Honestly if this guy had actually been a deranged psychopathic murderer instead of an extremely narcissistic twat this situation could have easily ended up much worse, in fact in all likelihood that was far more likely to be the situation. He might have blown himself up while surrendering, fired upon the police when they called out to him to surrender, or simply bolted off and continued his massacre.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure highly trained police forces know how to handle these situations much better than you and I.
[QUOTE=LarparNar;36555221]I'm sure highly trained police forces know how to handle these situations much better than you and I.[/QUOTE]
Would be saying the exact opposite if he had fired on the police. It's all fine and dandy to go "oh, well X situation happened, so [I]in all possible situations[/I] this is the correct procedure" but in all likelihood this as the least likely outcome.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;36555271]Would be saying the exact opposite if he had fired on the police. It's all fine and dandy to go "oh, well X situation happened, so [I]in all possible situations[/I] this is the correct procedure" but in all likelihood this as the least likely outcome.[/QUOTE]
Hey mate, I didn't say that this is the correct procedure [I]in all possible situations.[/I]
My point is that the task force probably did their job properly and analyzed the situation as they learned what was happening (By the way, you and I don't have that information, so we have no idea what the situation was), and acted accordingly, which resulted in them [I]not shooting him because they didn't find his behavior threatening[/I].
You know, Breivik wasn't the only one with a gun out there, and if you try to point a gun at someone while ten other people have you at gunpoint, you kinda won't last very long.
In the majority of rampage shootings police do get fired upon, and for that matter the majority of rampage shooters either kill themselves or get shot by police/military, the minority are arrests. Also considering that this is Norway's only rampage shooting in history, I can't imagine the police have a great deal of practical experience.
It wasn't the correct thing to do, it was irresponsible and reckless to approach the situation in a peaceful manner.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;36555337]It wasn't the correct thing to do, it was irresponsible and reckless.[/QUOTE]
How the [I]fuck[/I] can you possibly know this without any information at all on how he was arrested?
Those "friends" should be muslim. That'll show him.
Although the "friends" may not like it very much...
[QUOTE=NoNameForEvil;36540929]Giving people nice lives in prison is not a good form of rehabilitation, it doesn't deter them from a life of crime; if there's no actual penalty to committing crimes, then what reason is there to not commit them?[/QUOTE]
How is being unfree and forcibly cut away from the rest of the society "no actual penalty"?
[QUOTE=Loriborn;36540022]Except he's not a human being. He's a monster that killed off an entire island of people, and had no regrets about doing so. He actually smiled and laughed about the whole ordeal in court. I'm not saying he needs the death penalty, but he deserves far worse than a life of luxury that's better than most people I know. Honestly, there's treating him like a human, and there's treating him like royalty. I want to see him suffer through some of the situations my family endured, with little money and hardly being able to afford food because of layoffs. Maybe being up to your neck in student loans and constantly being dismissed from job applications. That's living life like a human, he's living life better than a majority of Americans.[/QUOTE]
That's because this is Norway. If they didn't put him in a seperate building, he would get fucked up by other inmates. I agree that it seems a bit excessive, but Norway's got the money, and he's still living a life in a prison. Besides, not treating him like shit makes Norway "better" than him - taking revenge would just make him a martyr.
"Better" is in quotation marks because they obviously already are better than him.
[QUOTE=LarparNar;36555353]How the [I]fuck[/I] can you possibly know this without any information at all on how he was arrested?[/QUOTE]
I cant be arsed to waste my time any more. Read my posts again, it's not [I]how[/I] he was arrested, it's the basic process of attempted arrest that most often winds up getting people killed or injured, often including the shooter.
Fucking look it up yourself, almost all recoded rampage shootings wind up with the shooter killing themselves, or killing injuring other people when police are attempted to negotiate or apprehend. If you even attempt a negotiation or arrest, well over 50% of the time you are going to subsequently cause an injury or a death, or a suicide on part of the shooter. Either way somebody gets hurt and the shooter gets killed almost every time, it makes far more sense in every single possible circumstance to kill the shooter the very second you get a clear shot. The damage has already been done and having the shooter alive only increases the odds of more injury or death.
norway, and the world needs to know how criminals like these are created. the rehabilitation and private conditions will pave way for new psychological treatments that may revolutionize incarceration as we know it
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;36556007]I cant be arsed to waste my time any more. Read my posts again, it's not [I]how[/I] he was arrested, it's the basic process of attempted arrest that most often winds up getting people killed or injured, often including the shooter.
Fucking look it up yourself, almost all recoded rampage shootings wind up with the shooter killing themselves, or killing injuring other people when police are attempted to negotiate or apprehend. If you even attempt a negotiation or arrest, well over 50% of the time you are going to subsequently cause an injury or a death, or a suicide on part of the shooter. Either way somebody gets hurt and the shooter gets killed almost every time, it makes far more sense in every single possible circumstance to kill the shooter the very second you get a clear shot. The damage has already been done and having the shooter alive only increases the odds of more injury or death.[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/27/anders-behring-breivik-arrest-norway"]Uh, he surrendered without resisting[/URL]. Unless you're suggesting the police should have executed him in cold blood, there was no reason to shoot him.
hi im hypno-toad and i definitely know more about the proper action to take in this specific circumstance than the actual people involved in the take down
Mass murderer? Why is this piece of shit still alive?
most likely so none of the prisoners can slit his throat, unfortunate
Breivik thread simulator:
"What?! He's only getting 21 years? He should get life!!"
"No he should get the chair"
"You idiot capital punishment is stupid"
"He gave away his right to life when he killed all those people"
"He's not getting 21 years, his sentence is getting repeated"
"We can't be sure"
"It's a 3 star hotel, he doesn't deserve it"
"Why do you care? At least its better then American prisons, Norwegians work better, look at statistics"
"Why was he declared sane? You can't kill that many people and be sane"
"Yes you can"
etc etc.
Every single thread.
I say they fucking shoot the bastard.
Fine example of a country that believes in it's law, even if it takes special ward to build to prevent more crimes.
[QUOTE=Forumaster;36539556]The maximum sentence you can receive for anything in Norway is 21 years?
BRB, building WMDs.[/QUOTE]
So a country revisits trials every 21 years and will just constantly give them 21 more years, which means they actually consider rehabilitating people, and your solution is [I]mass extermination?[/I]
[QUOTE=NoNameForEvil;36540929]Giving people nice lives in prison is not a good form of rehabilitation, it doesn't deter them from a life of crime; if there's no actual penalty to committing crimes, then what reason is there to not commit them?[/QUOTE]
Yeah I'm sure that's why the American prison system has a lower rate of reoffence than the Norwegian prison system right?
Oh wait...
ITT: People who think the ward is being built as a "better" place than any other part of the prison and don't consider that Breivik has to be kept separate from other inmates for the safety of both himself and others.
Also people who don't know shit about Norway discussing Norway.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.