One of the teenage Austrian ‘poster girls’ who ran away to join ISIS has been killed in the conflict - Polidicks

GOD, all this [I]VICTIM BLAMING[/I] [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Alt of RobbL, ban evasion" - Orkel))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Fort83;46744464]How did you get all of this from me simply saying "good riddance"?[/QUOTE] I didn't get it from that, I got it from this: [QUOTE]What does being a poster girl have to do with anything?[/QUOTE] Seemed like you were implying that it didn't matter what she did while in the terrorist group when you said that. Even if she just joined to be a janitor or some trivial shit like that, you'd probably still want her dead. Also, do we know for sure she actually went out and killed people?

[QUOTE=Seriousshakey;46743872]Or dungeons and dragons[/QUOTE] "2 of you get in this bed right now and ravish me." "oookay hold on, Dave, roll an athletics check for me please?" "Sure, aw, a 1." "Crit fail, sorry hen, gonna have to get in bed with another PC."

[QUOTE=Camundongo;46744414]From what I've heard/read, that's basically what they instill in young people to radicalise them. They pick on people, especially teenagers, who feel isolated from mainstream society and then feed that feeling, telling them that the society they live in (including their family and friends) either hates them or doesn't care about them, and that they will never amount to anything in their current situation. From there, they then convince them that by travelling abroad to fight or support these causes they can actually amount to something, and they can create somewhere where people respect and care for them. By the time they get there and realise the actual truth of things, it's generally too late.[/QUOTE] if that's the case, it's pretty shitty that their manipulating them like that but how do they not realise that ISIS is universally hated around the world, so if they are isolated and/or hated by their peers why would they join a group just to be hated even more? I just can't wrap my head around joining a terrorist group willingly

[QUOTE=Crash155;46744550]if that's the case, it's pretty shitty that their manipulating them like that but how do they not realise that ISIS is universally hated around the world, so if they are isolated and/or hated by their peers why would they join a group just to be hated even more? I just can't wrap my head around joining a terrorist group willingly[/QUOTE] While I don't support her joining ISIS, I really don't think you should prevent yourself from actively supporting a group regardless of its intentions and purpose only because a shit ton of people don't like it if you actually agree with it.

[QUOTE=Crash155;46744550]if that's the case, it's pretty shitty that their manipulating them like that but how do they not realise that ISIS is universally hated around the world, so if they are isolated and/or hated by their peers why would they join a group just to be hated even more? I just can't wrap my head around joining a terrorist group willingly[/QUOTE] At that point they see ISIS as their peers, with all the horror stories about them being used as evidence that the world is out to get people just like themselves, like the media is making the stories up, or it was all justified through self-defense, etc. As for your last point, "One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter" still rings true today.

[QUOTE=Fort83;46744614]I said that because what you said implied I don't like this girl solely because she is a poster girl, as if the fact of her joining and supporting ISIS didn't matter. Maybe some miscommunication.[/QUOTE] Well, I implying that you don't like her because she was a poster girl [b]AT[/b] ISIS, as if it really mattered to you that she joined. I didn't mention that I didn't think that her joining ISIS alone didn't matter because I was afraid that a shit ton of people would get fucking pissed off for saying something that seems impossible for them. I mean, yeah, I get that it's normal to instantly loathing someone for having a relation with a horribly immoral group since we don't feel comfortable at all with people actually agreeing with something that we find inconceivably horrible, but honest to god, I don't like harshly condemning people anymore. I used to get pleasure from it, but at some point I just felt like a cunt for doing that. It might have something to do with me realizing that not everyone I hated are just robots whose sole and very purpose was to make people feel absolutely ruined or pissed off. That might not be the case for ISIS, but at this point it's too late for me to want to go back to my old ways.

[QUOTE=Skerion;46744622]While I don't support her joining ISIS, I really don't think you should prevent yourself from actively supporting a group regardless of its intentions and purpose only because a shit ton of people don't like it if you actually agree with it.[/QUOTE] No, but you should do a research. And then, if being part of a terrorist group still seems to suit you just fine, then well, go for it, it's not like something of value will be lost. There's only so much that can be explained by stupidity.

[QUOTE=Skerion;46744981]Well, I implying that you don't like her because she was a poster girl [b]AT[/b] ISIS, as if it really mattered to you that she joined. I didn't mention that I didn't think that her joining ISIS alone didn't matter because I was afraid that a shit ton of people would get fucking pissed off for saying something that seems impossible for them. I mean, yeah, I get that it's normal to instantly loathing someone for having a relation with a horribly immoral group since we don't feel comfortable at all with people actually agreeing with something that we find inconceivably horrible, but honest to god, I don't like harshly condemning people anymore. I used to get pleasure from it, but at some point I just felt like a cunt for doing that. It might have something to do with me realizing that not everyone I hated are just robots whose sole and very purpose was to make people feel absolutely ruined or pissed off. That might not be the case for ISIS, but at this point it's too late for me to want to go back to my old ways.[/QUOTE] ISIS has gone far beyond the point of gaining any sympathy I'm afraid. The saying: Another man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter is a load of shit when the group in question has no qualms about killing and terrorizing innocents as a means to an end.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;46743915]because its fricking epic how a confused/indoctrinated teenage girl died after being possibly raped and tortured[/QUOTE] Oh okay, so when someone makes a sonic joke about a kid who drowned, its fucking hilarious but when a girl, on her own will and conscience, flies all the way to join a terrorist organization and gets killed, its not okay [url]http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1210099[/url]

[QUOTE=goldenbuttocks;46745079]Oh okay, so when someone makes a sonic joke about a kid who drowned, its fucking hilarious but when a girl, on her own will and conscience, flies all the way to join a terrorist organization and gets killed, its not okay[/QUOTE] Both are morally repugnant.

[QUOTE=Explosions;46743618]She's in paradise now.[/QUOTE] no women allowed.

[QUOTE=goldenbuttocks;46745079]Oh okay, so when someone makes a sonic joke about a kid who drowned, its fucking hilarious but when a girl, on her own will and conscience, flies all the way to join a terrorist organization and gets killed, its not okay [url]http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1210099[/url][/QUOTE] I don't think anyone actually wanted the sonic kid dead, though. Obviously, that's the case with this thread. [editline]18th December 2014[/editline] Also, you people keep mentioning on how she "joined a terrorist group with full conscience and that knew the risks" in these threads. Are you guys going to explain why that matters?

[QUOTE=Skerion;46745116] Also, you people keep mentioning on how she "joined a terrorist group with full conscience and that knew the risks" in these threads. Are you guys going to explain why that matters?[/QUOTE] Because it's the difference between "I was forced into it" and "I joined it because they seem fun."

[QUOTE=Skerion;46745116] Also, you people keep mentioning on how she "joined a terrorist group with full conscience and that knew the risks" in these threads. Are you guys going to explain why that matters?[/QUOTE] It matters because I can sort of sympathize with people who were brainwashed into coming over and were 'surprised' to see what's going on. They were just stupid, lacked any awareness or were coming from a country where access to information is not readily available. When a person joins terrorist group knowing full well what's going on, well, they are a terrorist, a threat to peace, understanding, acceptance and other things that are good about humanity. And their lives are forfeit and most people won't feel bad when they die, rightly so.

Rip in peaces.

[QUOTE=gudman;46745202]It matters because I can sort of sympathize with people who were brainwashed into coming over and were 'surprised' to see what's going on. They were just stupid, lacked any awareness or were coming from a country where access to information is not readily available. When a person joins terrorist group knowing full well what's going on, well, they are a terrorist, a threat to peace, understanding, acceptance and other things that are good about humanity. And their lives are forfeit and most people won't feel bad when they die, rightly so.[/QUOTE] "They forfeited their lives" This is another thing you guys keep saying. How do I know this isn't just belief that people made up to make it fit their morals, like that "if you x crime, you lose your humanity" thing that people sometimes say. And while I understand that ISIS is a threat against all good things about humanity, like you said, I don't think it means that people like the poster girl will never redeem themselves and get out of that mindset.

Very dumb...

[QUOTE=Skerion;46745333]"They forfeited their lives" This is another thing you guys keep saying. How do I know this isn't just belief that people made up to make it fit their morals, like that "if you x crime, you lose your humanity" thing that people sometimes say. And while I understand that ISIS is a threat against all good things about humanity, like you said, I don't think it means that people like the poster girl will never redeem themselves and get out of that mindset.[/QUOTE] "bu...bu...but rehabilitation!" ok guy stop posting

don't join isis

[QUOTE=stupid10er;46745371]"bu...bu...but rehabilitation!" ok guy stop posting[/QUOTE] It would be nice if you could explain why you think rehab is such a bad thing rather than use "but...but...x" as a half-assed comeback.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;46745344]murderers, rapist, etc can be rehabilitated according to a majority of fp but if you join a terrorist group you as a human being are irredeemable because???[/QUOTE] noone here is saying she's irredeemable. we're just agreeing that it was not a wise decision to join ISIS in the first place.

Demod Orkel and Swebonny

[QUOTE=Wootman;46745589]Demod Orkel and Swebonny[/QUOTE] Demod your, MOM!

[QUOTE=goldenbuttocks;46745588]noone here is saying she's irredeemable. we're just agreeing that it was not a wise decision to join ISIS in the first place.[/QUOTE] Trust me, I don't think it was a wise choice, either. That doesn't mean I think she deserves no sympathy for not being very smart and joining ISIS. I'm pretty sure there's more to it than just agreeing that it wasn't a wise decision.

I find it very hard to give sympathy to soon to be adults for joining a terrorist organisation whose crimes against humanity are so incredibly vile that other terrorist organisations are distancing themselves from them. When this story first broke a few months ago I was fully supporting the girls and trying to sympathize with them. I hoped that Western military powers would try to do something to bring them back home and to their parents. But my sympathies ends when I hear them actively partaking the events that are leading to the death of thousands and thousands of innocent children, women and men. Where are our sympathies for the civilians? Have you heard first hand accounts from people affected by ISIS? How one day their relatives simply just vanishes and become unreachable? Sympathizing with an ISIS terrorist is something I'm never going to do. I feel terribly bad for the girl's parents and I feel bad for them, for making such poor decisions. But when they're holding a rifle and firing towards soldiers or civilians, they are nothing but just another sick terrorist that I have no sympathies for.

[QUOTE=Swebonny;46745806]When this story first broke a few months ago I was fully supporting the girls and trying to sympathize with them. I hoped that Western military powers would try to do something to bring them back home and to their parents.[b] But my sympathies ends when I hear them actively partaking the events that are leading to the death of thousands and thousands of innocent children, women and men. [/b] [/QUOTE] [QUOTE]But they appeared on social networking sites [b]branding Kalashnikov rifles[/b] and surrounded by armed men - photos which Austrian police said acted as recruitment posters for young girls.[/QUOTE] Are you talking about this right here or something else? Also, it would be nice if someone responded to the "Forfeited her life" thing I was talking about and provided an argument before this thread dies.

She forfeited her life when she actively start to try and end the lives of others. Say all you want about "hurr rehabilitation" but in this specific circumstance the girl dying likely saved many more lives then the single one it took. She was a willing propaganda piece that likely helped recruit dozens if not hundreds of similar people. Not only that but she willingly participated in events that led to barbaric loss of life amongst the civilian populace around her. Her death is the sad outcome of a sad series of events, but in the end she DID forfeit her life when she actively sought to take the lives of others for no reason other then existing.

I don't feel sympathy for these girls just the same as I don't feel sympathy for any teenage boys or grown adults who join terrorist groups. This is the internet age, you can learn everything you need to know about ISIS in a few clicks, and even if they had a horrible life where they were rejected by peers and somehow felt that everyone hated them, they still wouldn't rationally join ISIS for any reason other than to kill other people. Hell, even if they didn't have access to the internet (Which I doubt, Vienna isn't a slumhole) just seeing television news, hearing radio news or even asking people what the goals of this group are, you'd find out they aren't a hugbox. ISIS isn't building communities, it's destroying them. Everyone is dirt to them, they exist to conquer and destroy. This is pretty obvious, so the only possible reason you could join is that you also want to do that. These women possibly could have been rehabilitated at one point, but when you travel overseas to join a terrorist group you've passed the moral event horizon: you can't turn back, you're officially a terrorist, and your government is no longer willing to rehabilitate you. Unless some miracle happens and you don't hurt anyone/support the terrorists in any way and your government believes you, you're irredeemable. You're a traitor to your country and a threat to the existence of others. You're basically no longer a citizen. Doesn't matter what gender you are (kinda odd no one brings up brainwashing with the guy who scrubbed toilets), and doesn't matter how young you are, unless coercion is a factor you've made this choice yourself.

I don't dare talk about this at my school. I'd result in me saying "They deserved it, it was their decision to join." and a response like "YOU'RE A FUCKING SEXIST, IGNORANT BITCH" because being a girl immediately gives you immunity from doing anything wrong. But really, they deserved it.