[QUOTE=TestECull;34050328]Unless he was actually shooting at the police I don't feel this is right. Even then it'd have to be after they'd resorted to everything else they had, including shooting the gun out of his hand, which has been done before.[/QUOTE]
Shooting the gun out of his hand? That's the most retarded thing I've read today. The cops would need some kind of eagle eye perk to be able to pull that off, especially on a kid with spastic movements.
Just shoot the kid and be done with. Better safe than sorry.
I feel a little bad for the cops that had to do this. Shooting a kid must weigh pretty heavy on a mans conscience.
[QUOTE=Nasal_Spray;34050288]Well they are animals. They're monkeys.[/QUOTE]
Homo Sapiens, actually. Monkeys have tails.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;34050414]Shooting the gun out of his hand? That's the most retarded thing I've read today. The cops would need some kind of eagle eye perk to be able to pull that off, especially on a kid with spastic movements.
Just shoot the kid and be done with. Better safe than sorry.[/QUOTE]
While shooting the gun out of the kids hand is a pretty stupid suggestion, the police should [i]never[/i] kill someone to be "better safe than sorry", especially not without trying an alternative and especially not with someone so young. 13-14 year olds generally aren't that hard to negotiate with.
Killing him might not have been necessary. But what do you expect when you point a gun at someone, or carry it around in a school?
[QUOTE=Timenova;34050494]Killing him might not have been necessary. But what do you expect when you point a gun at someone, or carry it around in a school?[/QUOTE]
If somebody points a gun at me when I am armed, I am protecting myself.
[QUOTE=faze;34050506]If somebody points a gun at me when I am armed, I am protecting myself.[/QUOTE]
You aren't a police officer though. It isn't their job to kill any threat, they have to risk their lives in order to protect others and that includes an armed gunman. If they can arrest him without risking civilian lives then shooting to kill should be a last resort.
[editline]4th January 2012[/editline]
It may well have been the right choice in this situation, the article isn't very clear about what actually happened.
[QUOTE=squids_eye;34050630]You aren't a police officer though. It isn't their job to kill any threat, they have to risk their lives in order to protect others and that includes an armed gunman. If they can arrest him without risking civilian lives then shooting to kill should be a last resort.
[editline]4th January 2012[/editline]
It may well have been the right choice in this situation, the article isn't very clear about what actually happened.[/QUOTE]
Not really, you are supposed to care for your and your comrades' lives too. Negotiating with someone who is pointing a gun at you doesn't seem to be worth it to me.
[QUOTE=squids_eye;34050630]You aren't a police officer though. It isn't their job to kill any threat, they have to risk their lives in order to protect others and that includes an armed gunman. If they can arrest him without risking civilian lives then shooting to kill should be a last resort.
[editline]4th January 2012[/editline]
It may well have been the right choice in this situation, the article isn't very clear about what actually happened.[/QUOTE]
I have quite a few friends who are police officers, and they tell me that's basically the code they go by. If you're engaged with a weapon, give them a warning to drop it; if they refuse, neutralize the threat. And you want to shoot to kill. If you injure, they can still fire the weapon.
[QUOTE=squids_eye;34050630]You aren't a police officer though. It isn't their job to kill any threat, they have to risk their lives in order to protect others and that includes an armed gunman. If they can arrest him without risking civilian lives then shooting to kill should be a last resort.
[editline]4th January 2012[/editline]
It may well have been the right choice in this situation, the article isn't very clear about what actually happened.[/QUOTE]
Basically if you point a gun at an officer or make an attempt to shoot, you will be shot. Officers can't predict when someone will pull that trigger, they can't magically dodge a bullet, there is no reaction or countermeasure when someone fires a gun. They don't know where that bullet will go, where it will hit or reflect. Officers are paid to protect and stop risks like that. The only way to stop it is to prevent it and that's when officers take action to disable the gunman by any means.
[QUOTE=squids_eye;34050478]While shooting the gun out of the kids hand is a pretty stupid suggestion, the police should [i]never[/i] kill someone to be "better safe than sorry", especially not without trying an alternative and especially not with someone so young. 13-14 year olds generally aren't that hard to negotiate with.[/QUOTE]
The cops shouldn't have to put their own life in danger to try to safely disarm someone who brought a firearm to a school. If he didn't drop the gun the minute the cops told him to, the cops have every right to protect themselves and others.
They should make the police take tests to see if they can handle themselves with a gun in that kind of situation, so, yknow, they incapacitate and don't end up killing 8th graders wielding firearms.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;34050669]Not really, you are supposed to care for your and your comrades' lives too. Negotiating with someone who is pointing a gun at you doesn't seem to be worth it to me.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Ragy;34050717]Basically if you point a gun at an officer or make an attempt to shoot, you will be shot. Officers can't predict when someone will pull that trigger, they can't magically dodge a bullet, there is no reaction or countermeasure when someone fires a gun. They don't know where that bullet will go, where it will hit or reflect. Officers are paid to protect and stop risks like that. The only way to stop it is to prevent it and that's when officers takes action to disable the gunman by any means.[/QUOTE]
You are right that it is necessary to shoot to kill in some situations, I'm arguing that it is possible that it wasn't the right thing to do in this one. None of us can really do anything but speculate until more information is released.
[editline]4th January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Bassplaya7;34050749]The cops shouldn't have to put their own life in danger to try to safely disarm someone who brought a firearm to a school. If he didn't drop the gun the minute the cops told him to, the cops have every right to protect themselves and others.[/QUOTE]
They are cops, it is their job to risk their life to some extent in order to protect civilian lives.
shit happens, people get killed
[QUOTE=squids_eye;34050817]They are cops, it is their job to risk their life to some extent in order to protect civilian lives.[/QUOTE]To some extent. It means engaging the threat and escorting innocents. It does not mean reasoning with a criminal at gunpoint. This is not a movie where pretty words will result in the criminal to lower his gun.
[QUOTE=OvB;34049543]Sucks that the kid had to die, but bringing a gun/threatening to shoot up a school is serious business. I don't think the force used was necessarily uncalled for.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much this. Read the full article people.
It's not like he was some 5 year old who didn't even understand what was going on, he was fully aware of what he was doing. I agree with squids though, more information is needed.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;34050883]To some extent. It means engaging the threat and escorting innocents. It does not mean reasoning with a criminal at gunpoint. This is not a movie where pretty words will result in the criminal to lower his gun.[/QUOTE]
13 year olds aren't hard to reason with. If it was impossible to talk down a gunman police negotiators wouldn't exist.
Surprised no one's blaming this on video games yet.
[QUOTE=Kalkka;34051006]Surprised no one's blaming this on video games yet.[/QUOTE]
mavav.org probably is.
Why am i not surprised about the fact that this happened in Texas?
[QUOTE=znk666;34051281]Why am i not surprised about the fact that this happened in Texas?[/QUOTE]
Because you blindly believe negative stereotypes?
It's real upsetting to read about a cop killing a young child. I don't really want to say the boy deserved it, but with all the school shootings that have happened in this country, you can't be too safe.
at first I was outraged, but then it hit me
[QUOTE=nooks540;34049400][I]Brownsville[/I], [B]Texas[/B][/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://www.blackenterprise.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2011/12/black-child-in-school-375x325.jpg[/IMG]
everyday Texas racism at play here
Why are we surprised?
edit:
if you know anything, most Texas stereotypes are accurate for a reason, stop trying to defend them
[QUOTE=Stick it in her pooper;34051772]at first I was outraged, but then it hit me
[IMG]http://www.blackenterprise.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2011/12/black-child-in-school-375x325.jpg[/IMG]
everyday Texas racism at play here
Why are we surprised?
edit:
if you know anything, most Texas stereotypes are accurate for a reason, stop trying to defend them[/QUOTE]
What does this have to do with ANYTHING
A boy brought a fucking gun at school and threatened people with it. Result ? He gets killed.
WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH RACISM
[QUOTE=teslacoil;34049533]It's kind of disheartening to not read any anything about them trying to get the kid to give them the gun, did they see the gun and just immediately put him down?[/QUOTE]
You want another Columbine?
As sad as it is, oh. well. A kid had a gun and was at school. Police took the actions that they where taught to do.
[QUOTE=TestECull;34050328]Unless he was actually shooting at the police I don't feel this is right. Even then it'd have to be after they'd resorted to everything else they had, including shooting the gun out of his hand, which has been done before.[/QUOTE]
If you're going to fire, when this kid has fired already, you're going to shoot to kill. They're trained not to do this "shoot the gun out of the hand/non lethal shot" bullshit cause 9 times out of 10 it ends up killing or seriously injuring the target. You just don't do it.
[QUOTE=Stick it in her pooper;34051772]at first I was outraged, but then it hit me
[IMG]http://www.blackenterprise.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2011/12/black-child-in-school-375x325.jpg[/IMG]
everyday Texas racism at play here
Why are we surprised?
edit:
if you know anything, most Texas stereotypes are accurate for a reason, stop trying to defend them[/QUOTE]
your not even from the states and you are claiming that Texas is racist.
[QUOTE=rosar0980;34052383]If you're going to fire, when this kid has fired already, you're going to shoot to kill. They're trained not to do this "shoot the gun out of the hand/non lethal shot" bullshit cause 9 times out of 10 it ends up killing or seriously injuring the target. You just don't do it.[/QUOTE]
There is a witness who claims to have heard gunshots but it said that they don't know whether he had fired the gun or why he had it in the first place. For all we know the kid could have found the gun on the floor after the real owner had dropped it and got shot by trigger happy cops, though that is probably unlikely.
[editline]4th January 2012[/editline]
Also the witness was in 7th grade, he might have heard a loud bang and assumed it was a gun because the school was already on lockdown.
[QUOTE=squids_eye;34050984]13 year olds aren't hard to reason with. If it was impossible to talk down a gunman police negotiators wouldn't exist.[/QUOTE]
except this wasn't a hostage situation where he was holed up somewhere. he already popped off a few and was in the hallways. there's no negotiations for people who have shown that they're intent on using guns.
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