Germany - Syrian refugee on trial for throwing his children out of a window

[TheBloodyNine]

[QUOTE=Elspin;51080672]While some of the percentages might seem low, support for a terrorist organisation being any higher than 1% is cause for extreme alarm IMO. If any part of my country polled for 23% support of al qaeda a state of emergency would likely be called.[/QUOTE]

Can you exactly blame them though? These people objectively believe the west has made their nations worse in the invasions, and that the west is actively persecuting their religion. It's hardly an obscure belief, even among westerners. Many of them also don't know the exact reasons of the conflict and simply believe it is an attack on them. The opposition begins to seem much better, especially because during the original poll, US troops were still active in Iraq, and especially Afghanistan.

[QUOTE=Elspin;51080672]Which is good, but it's important to keep in mind that while fundamentalists over there are pretty well understood, their idea of a moderate is not necessarily the same as ours[/QUOTE]

Fair, but moderates believe in moderation in reform. Even if their moderates aren't exactly as accepting as ours, it still shows that Muslims recognize the need to move away from fundamentalism, which is the source of most of the terrorism and issues.

[QUOTE=Elspin;51080672]True, but at least in the short term when they arrive this is the most accurate representation of their beliefs as they're not going to dramatically shift in such a short time. [/QUOTE]

I agree, but over time those views change and shift, and most people with those views won't be acting on them when they reach their country. Even if half of them hold awful views, only a tenth might actually act on them, and the longer they remain in the country and assimilate, the smaller that number becomes. We've already seen Muslims trying to adapt to their new countries, normally things like Burkinis in France, an attempt to bridge the gap between cultural modesty from Middle Easterners and relaxed beach atmosphere in the west.

[QUOTE=Elspin;51080672]I mean the information is a bit conflicted, you've kinda ignored the fact that the 2nd chart also show North Americans are the 2nd most likely to say it's never justified, and the 2nd lowest percentage of people who say it's sometimes justified or depends. I honestly expected that place to be taken by Europe. I also find it hard to believe these charts are honest (and a source would be nice, is it also pew?) given the world's state of affairs right now, even if they're accurately reporting what people said.[/QUOTE]

Yeah it's also pew, apologies for not saying that before. I'm not trying to make a dig at North Americans, I'm pointing out that Muslim views seem a lot more extreme on paper but once you compare them to other polls then it shows that their views are actually shockingly similar to western ones.

[tau]

[QUOTE=Seerus;51080527][...]a disproportionate amount of inbound immigrants are single men with no reason to adopt German livelihood. [/QUOTE]

This is an interesting claim I hear a lot. On the face of it, men trying to gain access to Europe alone may look like they either abandoned their families for a better life for themselves or are alone and looking for their own gain, however, listening to many refugees stories you realise that quite often fathers, brothers or uncles will leave the underfunded and desperate refugee camps to go try and find a better life. They'll leave their wives and kids where it is safe and risk their own lives trying to get to Europe. Once their asylum claim comes in they can then bring their families with them. Whilst the fact that they are safe may make you wonder why they keep searching, the number one concern of parents and children in these camps is the fact that they can't get a proper education there because of a lack of funding.

It's very easy to look at the "sea/flood/wave/deluge/[other word to sow fear] of migrants" coming over and forget that every one of them is a person with a life, a family and reasons why.

[Keyblockor1]

[QUOTE=NoOneKnowsMe;51080103][url]http://www.thelocal.de/20151113/police-refugees-commit-less-crimes-than-germans[/url][/QUOTE]

Arguably what they're likely doing is going by % based which Refugees would always be the minority. However the idea is to do so in proportion of their size and i'd think you'd have a massive increase.

It's also aided by some of the institutions by giving those who commit crimes minor sentences or let go.

[editline]20th September 2016[/editline]

[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;51080914]This is an interesting claim I hear a lot. On the face of it, men trying to gain access to Europe alone may look like they either abandoned their families for a better life for themselves or are alone and looking for their own gain, however, listening to many refugees stories you realise that quite often fathers, brothers or uncles will leave the underfunded and desperate refugee camps to go try and find a better life. They'll leave their wives and kids where it is safe and risk their own lives trying to get to Europe. Once their asylum claim comes in they can then bring their families with them. Whilst the fact that they are safe may make you wonder why they keep searching, the number one concern of parents and children in these camps is the fact that they can't get a proper education there because of a lack of funding.

It's very easy to look at the "sea/flood/wave/deluge/[other word to sow fear] of migrants" coming over and forget that every one of them is a person with a life, a family and reasons why.[/QUOTE]

And if it is what you've said the best thing that can happen is that the fathers, uncles, and sons bring over just their wife. Else it could explode into a bigger problem.

No one is dehumanizing Refugees unless they're alt-right, this is applicable on the basis that they did nothing wrong. But you're also forgetting that the people of Europe also is a people with a way of life, a family, and reasons why they feel uneasy when they see huge changes in their environment.

[karlosfandango]

[QUOTE=hexpunK;51080287]Time to generic vague right-wing fearpost: 13 posts.

It's not a record, but you tried at least.

"Time" wont tell shit, evidence based statistics will tell shit however and they are currently telling us that a majority of refugees are actually seeking asylum from war and are not causing problems in their new host countries.

Kinda like every other time we have a humanitarian refuge crisis. Though this one has that awful invention we call "THE INTERNET" to amplify the voices of idiots only pushing the worst behaved refugees to the forefront.

not that you give a fuck lmao[/QUOTE]

In time it will become apparent if there is a problem, this is hardly a right wing fear post as you angrily claim, lol.

[editline]21st September 2016[/editline]

[QUOTE=TheBloodyNine;51080699]Can you exactly blame them though? These people objectively believe the west has made their nations worse in the invasions, and that the west is actively persecuting their religion. It's hardly an obscure belief, even among westerners. Many of them also don't know the exact reasons of the conflict and simply believe it is an attack on them.

[/QUOTE]

You are arguing against your own point here, these all seem like good reasons to not take them.

[Big Dumb Patriot]

[QUOTE=Cructo;51079974]These are the same people who want to be able to implement Sharia law in Islamic communities in the West.[/quote]

This means literally nothing, just so you're aware. Sharia law is interepeted and implemented very, very differently among different groups of Muslims. At its core, it's nothing more than a simple set of customs, traditions, and religious guidelines for Godliness and good behavior. Help the less fortunate, be humble and modest, be generous and respectful to strangers, etc, etc. Sharia law is already practiced by Muslims the world over. It's also worth noting that Sharia law only applies to willing Muslims.

The problem is that zealousness and extremism in certain parts of the Muslim world have resulted in some countries and subcultures having more and more extreme interpretations of Sharia. We in the west West characteristically misunderstand and misrepresent these extreme, often violent, interperetations of Sharia as being the baseline, rather than the zealous fringe, and that anybody wanting to live by Sharia must therefor want a terrorist government. Which is, obviously, fucking ludicrous.

Like, no part of Sharia law tells you to murder your children if your wife doesn't obey you.

[editline]21st September 2016[/editline]

[QUOTE=Dolton;51080145]And yet "Ethnically german man kills child" is never posted here even though I'd venture a guess that it happens a lot more frequently. The people posting these articles have such a transparent narrative.

That isn't to say there aren't large cultural adjustments and clashes that need to be addressed (as has happened many times in the United State I might add) but acting like Germany is now full of Muslims throwing children out of windows is just bullshit.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, this is honestly what baffles me. Like, people using this as evidence of a [I]cultural[/I] problem, lol. The culture of traditionally Muslim countries may be more overtly patriarchal, for sure, but to act like murdering your children because your wife is disobeying you [B]is[/B] the culture is fucking absurd. Christianity in the US also has much more traditional, patriarchal family roles. The wife is generally expected to obey the husband, her place is with the children, etc, etc. Yet, when an evangelical brutally murders his children, we don't start screaming about cultural incompatibility of Christians and persecute the entire religious group. We say, "that guy is a fucking lunatic," and lock him up.

[Spazi]

[QUOTE=Seerus;51079638]And thats my issue with this entire thing. When we mass import refugees like this by the boatload, they're not coming clean. They're coming with the exact same standards and morals that made the place they're escaping from what it is. And with the sheer amount we're bringing in, it's not going to end up well.[/QUOTE]

The very part you quoted points out that the woman was abandoning the old standards and morals.

So how can you argue that they won't change?

[Tarver]

Just because Christians and Ethnic Germans do terrible shit does not mean that these refugees who do the same thing are excused.You might not be saying that but pointing out that certain refugees do something fucked up only for someone to reply "Yeah but we do it too!" is kinda amusing.

[Spazi]

[QUOTE=Tarver;51083656]Just because Christians and Ethnic Germans do terrible shit does not mean that these refugees who do the same thing are excused.You might not be saying that but pointing out that certain refugees do something fucked up only for someone to reply "Yeah but we do it too!" is kinda amusing.[/QUOTE]

That argument is to oppose generalization and demonization. You can't treat a people like criminals on the basis that some of them are, and it would be hypocritical when the same sort of criminals exist among your own demographic.

[Tarver]

[QUOTE=Talishmar;51083662]That argument is to oppose generalization and demonization. You can't treat a people like criminals on the basis that some of them are, and it would be hypocritical when the same sort of criminals exist among your own demographic.[/QUOTE]

To be fair I can't blame them,the placement of refugees has become so fucked up that in one city,there might be none at all where as in another, the refugees might outnumber the locals. When the placement becomes so disproportionate,there isn't any opportunity for them to actually fit in with the locals and this attitude is only encouraged by fellow refugees keeping their culture together and not assimilating since they're isolated communities which can cause something like this to occur.

Btw,by not blaming,I mean Germans generalizing

[karlosfandango]

[QUOTE=Talishmar;51083650]The very part you quoted points out that the woman was abandoning the old standards and morals.

So how can you argue that they won't change?[/QUOTE]

So you accept that their standards and morals are wrong for the woman to accept change?
I would of thought that the women would be more willing to accept change than the men.
I can see wisdom in both sides of the argument but most Middle Eastern and African countries that are predominantly Muslim are backward shitholes with dubious cultural and moral practices.