Pravyi Sektor starts firefight with local police and political parties in Munkács, Ukraine - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Conscript;48183028]Yes a bunch of neo fash football hooligans and SS galizien LARPers who idolize a butcher of russians, Poles, and Jews could never be a bunch of thugs. Also right sector has questionable ties to kolomoisky (both aligning over kolomoiskys struggle with poroshenko and their battalions working closely together), their headquarters in dnepropetrovsk is in the same RSA kolomoisky governed from until march, and Kolomoisky funds azov battalion and has politically apologized for svoboda (saying it moderated). Right sector is far from independent, and has yarosh nominated as an army advisor and its legal status guaranteed by the interim government and Yatsenyuk in particular. Corruption and oligarchy is a problem but these nazi boneheads aren't going to do shit about it. Oh, and amnesty has already accused them of abuses against civilians including torture, and they were the most violent and radical section of Maidan, they are terrorists.[/QUOTE] I never honestly thought I'd see the day where I would actually agree with Conscript. [editline]14th July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=certified;48197671]You know what, I really don't mind the adoption of Nazi symbolism on the Ukrainian side when, symbolically, that flag represents the last time in history before now when there were men willing to FIGHT Russia to the death.[/QUOTE] What in the name of Christ the Almighty did I just read?

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;48201522]Sorry for late reply. What I meant was a government having an "ally" to fight the same cause but that "ally's" aims are ultimately to become the government or exercise more power over the government and that "ally" is building support, influence and power every day. The kurds and the iraqi government might be an example but the ISIS and Assad example was wrong since the US is helping one of the sides but there is 0% risk of one of the sides they helped actually taking over the US. Sorry I guess I was ambiguous. [editline]14th July 2015[/editline] Tricky thing really. Give them the freedom and risk them growing in power/making potential allies think twice before helping you. Take the freedom away, piss them off and get accused (rightly so) of censorship. At what point does security become more important than freedom?[/QUOTE] If you need to shoot people to gain power in your own country, you don't deserve it. There has been no need for the violence in central Ukraine, it's just a bunch of gun toting alpha males and Ukraine would be better off without the lot of them. Although this is fantasy fairy tale stuff, the world really is this shit, and it can happen anywhere.

[QUOTE=certified;48197671]You know what, I really don't mind the adoption of Nazi symbolism on the Ukrainian side when, symbolically, that flag represents the last time in history before now when there were men willing to FIGHT Russia to the death.[/QUOTE] Ahahahah what the fuck, you are literally insane if you say nazis are okay coz they fight Russia.

I nominate certified's post as post of SH 2015.

[QUOTE=Conscript;48200156]Quit being such a liberal. [B]We must complete the anti-bolshevik crusade that was started, and destroy the Soviet mentality that grips east slavs and threatens the European project. Russia is feeble, NATO is now in a position to accomplish the old geopolitical goals of Europe regarding the East that the nationalists from Bismarck to Pilsudski to Hitler outlined. Ukraine is key to the designs, as all three noted rending it from east slavic civilization will forever destroy the Eastern threat to the West, and neither the Asiatic barbarians nor communism will ever trouble us again. Should we fail to subdue Russia in this post cold war end of history, we will never see the opportunity again.[/B][/QUOTE] Did someone gain control of your account because this doesn't seem like you. At all. Like seriously I'd say quit being such a nutter because all this post was word garbage about how WE MUST CONTAIN RUSSIA, MUST CONTROL RUSSIA. [editline]14th July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Faunze;48201448]A power grab and censorship. You would fit in well in today's political clusterfuck.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Faunze;48201820]If you need to shoot people to gain power in your own country, you don't deserve it. There has been no need for the violence in central Ukraine, it's just a bunch of gun toting alpha males and Ukraine would be better off without the lot of them. Although this is fantasy fairy tale stuff, the world really is this shit, and it can happen anywhere.[/QUOTE] So wait you're gonna call me out on "power grabing and censorship" when you yourself in a few posts down AGREE that these people don't deserve the power they have. This isn't how you enter a conversation.

[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;48203310]Did someone gain control of your account because this doesn't seem like you. At all. Like seriously I'd say quit being such a nutter because all this post was word garbage about how WE MUST CONTAIN RUSSIA, MUST CONTROL RUSSIA..[/QUOTE] He was being clearly sarcastic.

[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;48203310]Did someone gain control of your account because this doesn't seem like you. At all. Like seriously I'd say quit being such a nutter because all this post was word garbage about how WE MUST CONTAIN RUSSIA, MUST CONTROL RUSSIA. [editline]14th July 2015[/editline] So wait you're gonna call me out on "power grabing and censorship" when you yourself in a few posts down AGREE that these people don't deserve the power they have. This isn't how you enter a conversation.[/QUOTE] He's talking about legitimacy of authority in a more general fashion. If the only way you can rule is through violence, threats and coercion then your authority is not legitimate. (some anarchists would say most/all governments do this with prison, police, taxes and debt being the violence/coercion - different discussion for a different time) In this case the censorship would be the act of violence trying to make people submit to your rule so he was consistent in his criticism of the government. I suppose also one could argue that the beatings and threats of the right sector goons is also violence and coercion, and they are definitely not even elected, in which case the Kiev government might have "more authority" than the right sector thugs. It's an idealism I agree with but an idealism all the same, sometimes the more legitimate authority needs to be violence to defend itself/themselves/the people from an illegitimate authority, so violence might always be necessary till everyone uses the same rules by which they govern/are governed. sorry if I've mis analysed your post Faunze - correct me if I've gone off the rails.

[QUOTE=certified;48197671]You know what, I really don't mind the adoption of Nazi symbolism on the Ukrainian side when, symbolically, that flag represents the last time in history before now when there were men willing to FIGHT Russia to the death.[/QUOTE] So, you're basically saying that Hitler did nothing wrong. Either you confused Facepunch with /pol/ or you're having some issues.

The Hungarian government actually started investigating the Jobbik Party recently because they apparently accepted multi million dollars from the russian government and other white house representatives there, but these assholes keep denying it, so it is very easy figure out that the nazis in Ukraine got money from Putin too.

[QUOTE=Soret;48211257]The Hungarian government actually started investigating the Jobbik Party recently because they apparently accepted multi million dollars from the russian government and other white house representatives there, but these assholes keep denying it, so it is very easy figure out that the nazis in Ukraine got money from Putin too.[/QUOTE] Everything bad in Ukraine is Putin funded right? Pravy sektor are as anti-putin as it can get. But no, Putin is the source of all evil. I mean at that point oponents of Putin claim he has more power than his followers think he does. This is ridiculous.