SKorea holds navy drill; NKorea scraps sea accord designed to prevent armed clashes
188 replies, posted
look at these dumbfucks cheerleading for war
are your lives so meaningless and dull that you need a war to finally be excited for something other than the next big game release
We must get snsd out D:
[QUOTE=GunFox;22196852] This can be accelerated by decreased variations of skin tones due to increased immigration and GREATLY expedited by discovering intelligent life outside our solar system.[/QUOTE]
That's assuming we find intelligent life on EARTH first. :downs:
[QUOTE=GunFox;22202586]Yeah again, I was just pointing out that the mobile batteries aren't really nearly as concerning as the stationary ones. The mobile batteries can be detected and destroyed. The mountain ones can be detected, but destroying them before the manage to level Seoul is another matter.
Ideally we'd flood Seoul with point defense C-RAM's, but I don't think we have enough to begin with, I'm not sure how effective they actually are, and keeping them supplied with ammunition would be a nightmare.[/QUOTE]
Even the mobile ones operate from hardened artillery shelters. That Koksan self-propelled gun isn't designed for shoot and scoot and there's no sane North Korean senior officer who would consider having assets out in the open for aircraft to bomb with impunity.
[QUOTE=LordLoss;22195887]South Korea probably will though. They'll try to annex it, and though most NK'ans hate ol' Kim, they hate the south much more.[/QUOTE]
And in 20 years we'll have some North Koreans suicide bombing us because they're mad that we helped south korea.
Is there no end? :sigh:
[QUOTE=Tac Error;22202672]Even the mobile ones operate from hardened artillery shelters. That Koksan self-propelled gun isn't designed for shoot and scoot and there's no sane North Korean senior officer who would consider having assets out in the open for aircraft to bomb with impunity.[/QUOTE]
Then we are screwed across the board.
We can only hope that North Korea realizes what happens AFTER they manage to level Seoul.
[QUOTE=Second-gear-of-mgear;22202340]The Patriot missile system is quite keen on taking down large, relatively inaccurate missiles like scuds that once they fire, you're out of luck if a nice wind burst comes along.[/QUOTE]
No they're not, the Patriot is another price of shit hyped up to all hell and back by the Media just like the Stealth Fighter was before being shotdown in Serbia with another made unflyible.
[QUOTE][B]The U.S. Army claimed an initial success rate of 80% in Saudi Arabia and 50% in Israel. Those claims were eventually scaled back to 70% and 40%.[/B] However, when President George H. W. Bush traveled to Raytheon's Patriot manufacturing plant in Andover, Massachusetts during the Gulf War, he declared, the "Patriot is 41 for 42: 42 Scuds engaged, 41 intercepted!"[18] The President's claimed success rate was thus over 97% during the war.
On April 7, 1992 Theodore Postol of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and Reuven Pedatzur of Tel Aviv University testified before a House Committee stating that, according to their independent analysis of video tapes, [B]the Patriot system had a success rate of below 10%, and perhaps even a zero success rate.[/B][19][20]
Both testimonies state that part of the problems stem from its original design as an anti-aircraft system. PATRIOT was designed with proximity fused warheads, which are designed to explode immediately prior to hitting a target spraying shrapnel out in a fan in front of the missile, either destroying or disabling the target. These missiles were fired at the target's center of mass. With aircraft this was fine, but considering the much higher speeds of TBMs, as well as the location of the warhead (usually in the nose), [B]PATRIOT would most often hit closer to the tail of the Scud due to the delay present in the proximity fused warhead, thus not destroying the TBM's warhead and allowing it to fall to earth.[/B]
In response to the testimonies and other evidence, the staff of the House Government Operations Subcommittee on Legislation and National Security reported, [B]"The Patriot missile system was not the spectacular success in the Persian Gulf War that the American public was led to believe. There is little evidence to prove that the Patriot hit more than a few Scud missiles launched by Iraq during the Gulf War, and there are some doubts about even these engagements[/B]. The public and the United States Congress were misled by definitive statements of success issued by administration and Raytheon representatives during and after the war.[/QUOTE]
Now add thousands of Rocket Artillery cluttering up the Patriot's Radar and you tell me if it'll hit jackshit.
[QUOTE]The Iraqi redesign of the Scuds also played a role. Iraq had redesigned its Soviet-style Scuds to be faster and longer ranged, but the changes weakened the missile and it was more likely to break up upon re-entering the atmosphere. [B]This presented a larger number of targets as it was unclear which piece contained the warhead.[/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Broseph_;22203041] Stealth Fighter was before being shotdown in Serbia with another made unflyible.
[/QUOTE]
ONE. In 25 years of service and being the first truly stealth aircraft, ONE was shot down. Over 700 Surface to air missiles were fired during that conflict and the Nighthawks were responsible for the bulk of the sorties. Furthermore it was shot down while it was RAINING which made the anti RADAR coating on the F-117 drastically less effective.
Christ they didn't even manage to capture the pilot.
You do understand this right. You realize that shooting down one isn't impressive, it's a joke.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;22203041]No they're not, the Patriot is another price of shit hyped up to all hell and back by the Media just like the Stealth Fighter was before being shotdown in Serbia with another made unflyible.
Now add thousands of Rocket Artillery cluttering up the Patriot's Radar and you tell me if it'll hit jackshit.[/QUOTE]
The truth is that none of the North Korean rocket artillery systems that we know of have the range to hit Seoul from behind the border. The longest ranged NK rocket artillery weapon, the M1985 only has a range of 35 kilometers.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;22203041]No they're not, the Patriot is another price of shit hyped up to all hell and back by the Media just like the Stealth Fighter was before being shotdown in Serbia with another made unflyible.
Now add thousands of Rocket Artillery cluttering up the Patriot's Radar and you tell me if it'll hit jackshit.[/QUOTE]
Fine, just put an assload of CIWS units around a city. Supposedly the Phalanx has an 8 mile range.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIWS#Land_based_CIWS[/url]
[QUOTE=Second-gear-of-mgear;22203281]Fine, just put an assload of CIWS units around a city. Supposedly the Phalanx has an 8 mile range.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIWS#Land_based_CIWS[/url][/QUOTE]
I mentioned that earlier, but I don't imagine they are as effective as we need. Nor do we have the number or ammunition supply for it.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-RAM[/url]
A better wiki page for them.
[QUOTE=ScoutKing;22202392]actually no...
Its one of the worlds biggest army..
But iraq had a pretty big army, and it crumbled quickly.
but NK...
if war happens... its going to be BIG, Its not going to be no Iraq, desert storm shit were its just a few days of combat, 10 years of occupation.
It will probably be 6-20 months of hard fighting.[/QUOTE]
It only has a big army because practically every citizen in NK is in the military. They hardly even know how to fight. Most of them will keep bowing down to Kim if they're country is getting attacked, because they think he's a god. Kim dies, NK basically commits suicide because everyone would go crazy and kills themselves because they thought Kim was a god. So yeah, 6 hours.
These guys better not go at it while I'm asleep, I don't want to miss a second of the action
there isn't going to be any action
[QUOTE=Meatmuppet;22203376]It only has a big army because practically every citizen in NK is in the military.[/quote]
they have a 1 million man standing army, 4 million in reserve. population is 24 million. there's still a lot of civilians to worry about
[QUOTE=Meatmuppet;22203376]They hardly even know how to fight.[/quote]
now you're just talking out of your ass
[QUOTE=Meatmuppet;22203376]Most of them will keep bowing down to Kim if they're country is getting attacked, because they think he's a god. Kim dies, NK basically commits suicide because everyone would go crazy and kills themselves because they thought Kim was a god. So yeah, 6 hours.[/QUOTE]
If there's anyone north koreans 'bow down' to, it's Kim Il Sung. He's already dead. If there anytime north koreans will commit suicide, it's when they are annexed or put under a puppet government.
so yea, a lot more then 6 hours.
Yeah, but they're not going to do anything. They say all this shit, basically "If you touch us, you die!", but they won't fight. Most of the world has guns pointed at them ready to fight anyways. This same thing has been happening for 60 years.
[QUOTE=Tac Error;22203204]The truth is that none of the North Korean rocket artillery systems that we know of have the range to hit Seoul from behind the border. The longest range NK rocket artillery weapons, the M1985 only has a range of 35 kilometers.[/QUOTE]
What are you talking about, even the basic BM-21 Grad model firing Regular rockets have a range of 40 KM with the North Korean 170mm Rocket Artillery having a 45km range, and the M1978 has a Range of 60km based on actual combat use by Iran.
And why are you talking about the M1985 which is a simple Howitzer when we should be speaking about the M1978 and M1989
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[url]http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?162240-Bluffer-s-Guide-North-Korea-strikes!-%282009%29[/url]
[QUOTE=Meatmuppet;22203376]It only has a big army because practically every citizen in NK is in the military.[/QUOTE]
No. 4 million is not 24 million.
[QUOTE=Meatmuppet;22203376]They hardly even know how to fight.[/QUOTE]
No. A military dictatorship bordering their worst enemy is going to be well trained, combine that with mountains and able weaponry and bam.
[QUOTE=Meatmuppet;22203376]Most of them will keep bowing down to Kim if they're country is getting attacked, because they think he's a god.[/QUOTE]
So? Iron resolve and dedication to Kim is a bad thing considering we'll see little surrender and little drop in moral.
[QUOTE=Meatmuppet;22203376]Kim dies, NK basically commits suicide because everyone would go crazy and kills themselves because they thought Kim was a god. So yeah, 6 hours.[/QUOTE]
No. They'd fight some more.
[editline]07:36PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Meatmuppet;22203500]Yeah, but they're not going to do anything. They say all this shit, basically "If you touch us, you die!", but they won't fight. Most of the world has guns pointed at them ready to fight anyways. This same thing has been happening for 60 years.[/QUOTE]
They've built nuclear weapons and they've sunk a South Korean ship.
I'm pretty sure that's a jab in our sides.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;22203513]What are you talking about, even the basic BM-21 Grad model firing Regular rockets have a range of 40 KM with the North Korean 170mm Rocket Artillery having a 45km range, and the M1978 has a Range of 60km based on actual combat use by Iran.
And why are you talking about the M1985 which is a simple Howitzer when we should be speaking about the M1978 and M1989
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[url]http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?162240-Bluffer-s-Guide-North-Korea-strikes!-%282009%29[/url][/QUOTE]
Bam.
[quote]
Next best in terms of range are the 240mm MRLS at about 35km (too short to reach central Seoul from behind the border):
[img]http://i40.tinypic.com/24zk7zo.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
[QUOTE=GunFox;22203311]I mentioned that earlier, but I don't imagine they are as effective as we need. Nor do we have the number or ammunition supply for it.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-RAM[/url]
A better wiki page for them.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Dome[/url]
If this war goes hot I predict initial north korean successes followed by incredibly harsh counters from the ROK and USA.
[QUOTE=Billiam;22203547]No. 4 million is not 24 million.
No. A military dictatorship bordering their worst enemy is going to be well trained, combine that with mountains and able weaponry and bam.
So? Iron resolve and dedication to Kim is a bad thing considering we'll see little surrender and little drop in moral.
No. They'd fight some more.
[editline]07:36PM[/editline]
They've built nuclear weapons and they've sunk a South Korean ship.
I'm pretty sure that's a jab in our sides.[/QUOTE]
NK denies all stories saying that they sunk that ship, and they are only building nuclear weapons TO GET ATTENTION. Every time they threaten to do something, other countries give them food and stuff so they back off. They just want attention. They're not going to fight any time soon.
[QUOTE=Second-gear-of-mgear;22203583][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Dome[/url][/QUOTE]
Missile based systems are problematic.
Namely because the shell they are lobbing at you probably costs a 1/20th of the missile you are using to stop it.
Shell based or, for shorter ranges, laser based, still seem to be the better choice.
Lasers still have a few problems though.
EDIT: Though it is good to see that they have a decent area defense system up for artillery.
[QUOTE=GunFox;22203199]ONE. In 25 years of service and being the first truly stealth aircraft, ONE was shot down. Over 700 Surface to air missiles were fired during that conflict and the Nighthawks were responsible for the bulk of the sorties. Furthermore it was shot down while it was RAINING which made the anti RADAR coating on the F-117 drastically less effective.
Christ they didn't even manage to capture the pilot.
You do understand this right. You realize that shooting down one isn't impressive, it's a joke.[/QUOTE]
Shut the fuck up about the rain, the fucking U.S. Air Force them self publicly ruled out Rain following the shoot down so why the fuck do you keep bringing it up?
And who gives a shit about the Pilot when you are trying to relocate the radar and Missiles to keep from getting bombed when the next set of fighters fly by in 2 hours looking for you??
Also are you implying it was raining when they damaged the Second and Third Stealth Fighter?
Meanwhile so the fuck what if they fired 700 missiles by the end of the war, they shot down a stealth fighter, FUBAR'd another and had the third quietly brushed under the rug.
[QUOTE=Meatmuppet;22203692]NK denies all stories saying that they sunk that ship, and they are only building nuclear weapons TO GET ATTENTION. Every time they threaten to do something, other countries give them food and stuff so they back off. They just want attention. They're not going to fight any time soon.[/QUOTE]
I agree a war isn't likely to happen soon (hopefully).
If it does however, it'll be an awful one.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;22203717]
Meanwhile so the fuck what if they fired 700 missiles by the end of the war, they shot down a stealth fighter, FUBAR'd another and had the third quietly brushed under the rug.[/QUOTE]
The Nighthawk was a piece of shit aircraft in just about every possible category of warplane categories. It was slow, it had virtually no defenses or countermeasures, it had no RADAR, it was aerodynamically a flying brick, it had shit range, and most of all it had crap armor and survivability. Hell the thing lit up like a tiny sun through IR and RADAR every time it had to drop bombs due to the doors opening and the targeting laser being activated. The only impressive thing here is that you managed to damage one without sending it plummeting into the ground.
Well that and the fact that it took you so many tries to hit it. That is an impressive level of incompetence.
[QUOTE=GunFox;22203854]The Nighthawk was a piece of shit aircraft in just about every possible category of warplane categories. It was slow, it had virtually no defenses or countermeasures, it had no RADAR, it was aerodynamically a flying brick, it had shit range, and most of all it had crap armor and survivability. Hell the thing lit up like a tiny sun through IR and RADAR every time it had to drop bombs due to the doors opening and the targeting laser being activated. The only impressive thing here is that you managed to damage one without sending it plummeting into the ground.
Well that and the fact that it took you so many tries to hit it. That is an impressive level of incompetence.[/QUOTE]
Dude fuck off if you're implying all 700 Surface to Air Missiles were fired solely at the 3 Stealth Fighters.
This is getting intense.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;22204005]Dude fuck off if you're implying all 700 Surface to Air Missiles were fired solely at the 3 Stealth Fighters.[/QUOTE]
No you also managed to shoot down one F-16C.
I should add that you didn't manage to capture that pilot either.
Would you like a cookie?
[QUOTE=Broseph_;22203513]What are you talking about, even the basic BM-21 Grad model firing Regular rockets have a range of 40 KM with the North Korean 170mm Rocket Artillery having a 45km range, and the M1978 has a Range of 60km based on actual combat use by Iran.
And why are you talking about the M1985 which is a simple Howitzer when we should be speaking about the M1978 and M1989
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[url]http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?162240-Bluffer-s-Guide-North-Korea-strikes!-%282009%29[/url][/QUOTE]
That was actually a very nice read.
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