[QUOTE=geel9;50005843]Having it be a felony is pretty fucking absurd honestly[/QUOTE]
It's literally going after people with mental issues. I'm rather sure that going around specifically with purposes of triggering people's mental illnesses is a crime.
[QUOTE=gufu;50005876]It's literally going after people with mental issues. I'm rather sure that going around specifically with purposes of triggering people's mental illnesses is a crime.[/QUOTE]
Notice how I didn't say "a crime."
This is of course oversimplifying it, since there is much more to it than merely "Person X thinks they are Y", as there is a physical part to it as well.
[editline]25th March 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=geel9;50005885]Notice how I didn't say "a crime."[/QUOTE]
Considering that the application of those laws demands a huge amount of action for the guilty party to be convicted, they would need to do this quite extensively.
[QUOTE=gufu;50005900]This is of course oversimplifying it, since there is much more to it than merely "Person X thinks they are Y", as there is a physical part to it as well.
[editline]25th March 2016[/editline]
Considering that the application of those laws demands a huge amount of action for the guilty party to be convicted, they would need to do this quite extensively.[/QUOTE]
I don't think that hurting people's feelings should be a fucking [b]felony.[/b]
[QUOTE=geel9;50005960]I don't think that hurting people's feelings should be a fucking [b]felony.[/b][/QUOTE]
lets see you have to go into work every day being called "it" for years/months on end and see how it affects you
[QUOTE=Levithan;50006078]lets see you have to go into work every day being called "it" for years/months on end and see how it affects you[/QUOTE]
That's when you take it up with your boss or some shit.
[QUOTE=geel9;50005960]I don't think that hurting people's feelings should be a fucking [b]felony.[/b][/QUOTE]
at what point does hurting someone's feelings become abuse?
[QUOTE=Grandzeit;50006142]That's when you take it up with your boss or some shit.[/QUOTE]
and then you get fired.
[QUOTE=Levithan;50006078]lets see you have to go into work every day being called "it" for years/months on end and see how it affects you[/QUOTE]
Yup, that'd be awful. Not an okay thing to do. Definitely should be a crime. Just not a felony.
[QUOTE=Grandzeit;50006142]That's when you take it up with your boss or some shit.[/QUOTE]
if this was actually going to work out the boss would have already laid down the hammer on the shitty person anyway.
Laws makers being complete idiots, nothing new there.
Also I honestly don't see how bathrooms can be considered such a big deal as to make a law about them.
[QUOTE=geel9;50006353]Yup, that'd be awful. Not an okay thing to do. Definitely should be a crime. Just not a felony.[/QUOTE]
Its harassment and discrimination motivated solely by bigotry. It should most definitely be a felony
I dunno I just don't see it up there with; rape, burglary, theft, domestic violence, repeat DUI's etc. (other felony charges) but the New York State judicial system disagrees so what do I know really. Not saying it shouldn't be a crime though.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;50006926]Its harassment and discrimination motivated solely by bigotry. It should most definitely be a felony[/QUOTE]
Cheating on my fiancée would destroy her emotionally and do far more mental harm than a business calling a woman "sir" but that isn't a felony. Unless the business actually refuses service you can't fucking convict them of a felony for being rude.
[QUOTE=geel9;50007269]Cheating on my fiancée would destroy her emotionally and do far more mental harm than a business calling a woman "sir" but that isn't a felony. Unless the business actually refuses service you can't fucking convict them of a felony for being rude.[/QUOTE]
Who are you to determine what does more mental harm than something else, especially if you arent capable of experiencing it?
[QUOTE=Duck M.;50007293]Who are you to determine what does more mental harm than something else, especially if you arent capable of experiencing it?[/QUOTE]
Is being rude to someone worthy of a felony charge?
[QUOTE=geel9;50007302]Is being rude to someone worthy of a felony charge?[/QUOTE]
Repeatedly and Knowingly misgendering someone is hardly just "being rude"
[QUOTE=Duck M.;50007349]Repeatedly and Knowingly misgendering someone is hardly just "being rude"[/QUOTE]
It's being extremely rude. As long as you don't refuse service it's a personal matter. Hare speech is protected by the Constitution as long as it doesn't incite immediate violence. I see no reason to change the rules for transgendered individuals.
[QUOTE=geel9;50007302]Is being rude to someone worthy of a felony charge?[/QUOTE]
Constant misgendering, especially in public in front of other people, is a form of emotional abuse and goes beyond merely being "rude." And that doesn't factor in that possibly being misgendered in front of friends/relatives (or possibly strangers) one isn't out to could possibly result in violence towards said trans person, so yeah slap a felony charge on the douche harassing and possibly endangering the life of a trans person just trying to live their life peacefully.
Regardless if it's considered more than being rude, making it into a felony is absolute nonsense. Furthermore unless I'm mistaken we already have laws pertaining to harassment.
[QUOTE=Levithan;50007374]Constant misgendering, especially in public in front of other people, is a form of emotional abuse and goes beyond merely being "rude." And that doesn't factor in that possibly being misgendered in front of friends/relatives (or possibly strangers) one isn't out to could possibly result in violence towards said trans person, so yeah slap a felony charge on the douche harassing and possibly endangering the life of a trans person just trying to live their life peacefully.[/QUOTE]
Damn, calm down. You're blowing this way out of proportion. Next you're going to tell use that it should be forbidden to be rude to a transgender.
[QUOTE=Levithan;50007374]Constant misgendering, especially in public in front of other people, is a form of emotional abuse and goes beyond merely being "rude." And that doesn't factor in that possibly being misgendered in front of friends/relatives (or possibly strangers) one isn't out to could possibly result in violence towards said trans person, so yeah slap a felony charge on the douche harassing and possibly endangering the life of a trans person just trying to live their life peacefully.[/QUOTE]
How the fuck dare you call him a douchebag? That's incredibly insulting to those who have had an infection as a result of using a douche. You should be rotting in jail, fucking filth.
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;50007419]Damn, calm down. You're blowing this way out of proportion. Next you're going to tell use that it should be forbidden to be rude to a transgender.[/QUOTE]
Instead of addressing his argument, you insinuated that he was irrationally upset and then set up a strawman. Nice
[editline]25th March 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=geel9;50007356]It's being extremely rude. As long as you don't refuse service it's a personal matter. Hare speech is protected by the Constitution as long as it doesn't incite immediate violence. I see no reason to change the rules for transgendered individuals.[/QUOTE]
It isnt just being rude, it's persistent harassment, abuse, and discrimination.
[QUOTE=Duck M.;50007492]Instead of addressing his argument, you insinuated that he was irrationally upset and then set up a strawman. Nice[/QUOTE]
His argument is based on an entirely imaginary scenario. He didn't back it with any evidence, not even anecdotal evidence.
What the hell do I have to address?
[QUOTE=Duck M.;50007492]Instead of addressing his argument, you insinuated that he was irrationally upset and then set up a strawman. Nice
[editline]25th March 2016[/editline]
It isnt just being rude, it's persistent harassment, abuse, and discrimination.[/QUOTE]
I get harassed constantly but you don't see me trying to get a felony conviction because people hurt my feelings.
To address a point made earlier in this thread, I believe that it's the right of any private business to refuse service to anyone, and whether or not that's moral or ethical is up to the internals of the business to decide; the law has no place intervening. Now, do I support refusing service to gay people, would I do it myself? Absolutely not. But it's not my place to decide for someone else's business whether or not they should or shouldn't be able to deny service to someone, like it isn't my place to decide whether or not someone should be able to marry someone of the same sex.
Similarly, as for laws against misgendering someone; I'm on the side of it not being a felony. Hurting someone's feelings isn't really an acceptable reason to put someone through what can be considered what might be one of the most emotionally and mentally damaging systems that the US has to offer to its citizens.
[QUOTE=shotgun334;50007564]To address a point made earlier in this thread, I believe that it's the right of any private business to refuse service to anyone, and whether or not that's moral or ethical is up to the internals of the business to decide; the law has no place intervening. Now, do I support refusing service to gay people, would I do it myself? Absolutely not. But it's not my place to decide for someone else's business whether or not they should or shouldn't be able to deny service to someone, like it isn't my place to decide whether or not someone should be able to marry someone of the same sex.
Similarly, as for laws against misgendering someone; I'm on the side of it not being a felony. Hurting someone's feelings isn't really an acceptable reason to put someone through what can be considered what might be one of the most emotionally and mentally damaging systems that the US has to offer to its citizens.[/QUOTE]
This sounds fine (I mean not really it's still silly) until you consider that it's very possible that EVERY business could refuse service to, say, a black guy, thus fucking that entire group of people over completely. You should never be able to discriminate who you give business to as long as they don't threaten your business
I find that scenario highly unlikely in practicality, especially because it'd be pretty terrible for business. Now, there's no accounting for human stupidity, but that scenario is just so impractical that it's a little silly to legislate over it-- and that's the problem with such example hypotheticals.
I support the right to refuse service to someone because they're wearing a blue hat and you think the color blue is dumb. It's a dumb reason, but it's within the right of that business to do so. Suicide is a right-- that includes corporations.
[QUOTE=shotgun334;50007610]I find that scenario highly unlikely in practicality, especially because it'd be pretty terrible for business. Now, there's no accounting for human stupidity, but that scenario is just so impractical that it's a little silly to legislate over it-- and that's the problem with such example hypotheticals.
I support the right to refuse service to someone because they're wearing a blue hat and you think the color blue is dumb. It's a dumb reason, but it's within the right of that business to do so. Suicide is a right-- that includes corporations.[/QUOTE]
It doesn't just affect the business, it affects the individual being discriminated against. Say there's one abortion clinic in a fifty mile radius, and they refuse service to blacks. As a result, blacks are forced into poverty at a much higher rate because they have more children they can't afford. Congrats, you fucked over an entire race in an area because "business rights"
sometimes I wonder if the people who think discrimination is unlikely have ever lived in the south or even read about US history
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