Bloomberg report: US loaned 7.7 trillion dollars to bank at .001 interest rate, got it back from inv - Polidicks

[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;33540218]It has to do with the IS and LM curves. Increasing the money supply will increase output e.g. GDP, personal income, etc. Increasing output increases employment as well. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IS/LM_model[/url] And just because they gave out $8 trillion that doesn't mean it's in circulation. If it's not in circulation it doesn't actually count as money.[/QUOTE] And why should this economic policy be carried out by a private institution? Would it not make more sense for these economic decisions to be made lawfully by our government? [editline]2nd December 2011[/editline] Also I hope you're not seriously trying to defend giving away 8 trillion dollars to other banks The idea that there could be a person on this planet so stupid that they would think this is acceptable is really depressing

[QUOTE=Kopimi;33540276]And why should this economic policy be carried out by a private institution? Would it not make more sense for these economic decisions to be made lawfully by our government? [/quote] No. Monetary policy should not be affected by public opinion. Bernanke and the rest of the Federal Reserve Board are some of the best economists in the world, and they know what they're doing. They're not a bunch of Lawyers and pseudo-intellectuals like Congress is. I wouldn't want people who can get elected by backwater Texans like Ron Paul to take over monetary policy. [quote] Also I hope you're not seriously trying to defend giving away 8 trillion dollars to other banks The idea that there could be a person on this planet so stupid that they would think this is acceptable is really depressing[/QUOTE] Like I said, the Federal Reserve knows how the economy works better than anyone. They can be wrong sometimes, but they usually aren't. And they're certainly wrong less often than armchair economists.

[QUOTE=mac338;33538277]Abolishing the fed is a bad idea, but it defiantly needs stronger oversight. It should be rebuilt. And major economic news sources have just started reporting on it, but it's going surprisingly slow. [/QUOTE] Nationalizing the fed would be a good start, right? A good start that should have started a long time ago?

[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;33540761]No. Monetary policy should not be affected by public opinion. Bernanke and the rest of the Federal Reserve Board are some of the best economists in the world, and they know what they're doing. They're not a bunch of Lawyers and pseudo-intellectuals like Congress is. I wouldn't want people who can get elected by backwater Texans like Ron Paul to take over monetary policy. Like I said, the Federal Reserve knows how the economy works better than anyone. They can be wrong sometimes, but they usually aren't. And they're certainly wrong less often than armchair economists.[/QUOTE] My jaw literally dropped reading you praise Bernanke and the rest of the Federal Reserve Are you literally so fucking thick you think that it's impossible for us to allow "great economists" like Bernanke (Who should be hung for fucking treason) to manage the Federal Reserve while the government still has control over their actions? I'm literally at a loss for fucking words that someone could actually be stupid enough to think that it is a good idea to give a private bank absolute control over the printing of a nation's currency, you realize that anyone other than the federal government printing money is unconstitutional right? And if Bernanke is such a fucking great guy with America's best interests at heart, why the fuck are we in a huge recession? And why is he hiding almost everything he does? Why is it just now coming out that even though we spent taxpayer money to bail out the banks, THE FED SECRETLY GAVE THEM 7.7 TRILLION DOLLARS I'm really just fucking awestruck that you actually, really, really support the idea of a private institution unconstitutionally controlling the printing of currency without anyone to answer to, without any audits, without any regulation. The idea that you actually hold such a staggeringly stupid fucking idea in your head is seriously depressing. How can you fucking justify what has happened here? They secretly gave out 7.7 trillion fucking dollars, and hid it from us so that we'd give them even MORE money, yet because they're professional economists you suck their fucking dicks and pretend this is all OK. You ignore the fact that their actions are treasonous and blatantly unconstitutional, all because you think because someone is educated in economics, it means they can do no wrong, and clearly it's not like this PRIVATE BANK has any motives other than helping the fucking country. Words cannot express how absolutely fucking disgusted I am with you as a human being, and the fact that any educated person on the face of the fucking planet could actually, seriously hold the opinion that the Federal Reserve is a force of good, looking out for the American economy's best interests, and that secretly funneling 10% of the world's liquid assets created out of thin air to OTHER private banks that lost OUR MONEY while gambling for profit is a good thing.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;33541129]My jaw literally dropped reading you praise Bernanke and the rest of the Federal Reserve Are you literally so fucking thick you think that it's impossible for us to allow "great economists" like Bernanke (Who should be hung for fucking treason) to manage the Federal Reserve while the government still has control over their actions? I'm literally at a loss for fucking words that someone could actually be stupid enough to think that it is a good idea to give a private bank absolute control over the printing of a nation's currency, you realize that anyone other than the federal government printing money is unconstitutional right? And if Bernanke is such a fucking great guy with America's best interests at heart, why the fuck are we in a huge recession? And why is he hiding almost everything he does? Why is it just now coming out that even though we spent taxpayer money to bail out the banks, THE FED SECRETLY GAVE THEM 7.7 TRILLION DOLLARS I'm really just fucking awestruck that you actually, really, really support the idea of a private institution unconstitutionally controlling the printing of currency without anyone to answer to, without any audits, without any regulation. The idea that you actually hold such a staggeringly stupid fucking idea in your head is seriously depressing. How can you fucking justify what has happened here? They secretly gave out 7.7 trillion fucking dollars, and hid it from us so that we'd give them even MORE money, yet because they're professional economists you suck their fucking dicks and pretend this is all OK. You ignore the fact that their actions are treasonous and blatantly unconstitutional, all because you think because someone is educated in economics, it means they can do no wrong, and clearly it's not like this PRIVATE BANK has any motives other than helping the fucking country. Words cannot express how absolutely fucking disgusted I am with you as a human being, and the fact that any educated person on the face of the fucking planet could actually, seriously hold the opinion that the Federal Reserve is a force of good, looking out for the American economy's best interests, and that secretly funneling 10% of the world's liquid assets created out of thin air to OTHER private banks that lost OUR MONEY while gambling for profit is a good thing.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure this is why Cupcakes said that the monetary policy should not be affected by public opinion.

[QUOTE=lulzbocksV2;33541329]I'm pretty sure this is why Cupcakes said that the monetary policy should not be affected by public opinion.[/QUOTE] Yeah that was a real nugget of genius, that a private institution without any guidance from the government, should be able to do whatever they want with a nation's currency. And that because Bernanke is a well educated economist, he can do no wrong, and his decisions are not to be judged. Cupcake is a real genius, isn't he.

[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;33540761]Bernanke and the rest of the Federal Reserve Board are some of the best economists in the world[/QUOTE] Well, no. For the Bernank, he's indisputably [URL="http://articles.latimes.com/2010/dec/02/business/la-fi-crisis-lending-20101202"]corrupt[/URL], stupid, or both, and his qualifications are publishing a lot and having taught econ before. Sooo...what, volume and an ability to lecture means skill now? [URL="http://ideas.repec.org/top/top.person.all.html"]Here's a list of 1.5k equivalent dudes.[/URL] Best in the world my arse. [QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;33540761]They can be wrong sometimes, but they usually aren't. And they're certainly wrong less often than armchair economists.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2007/08/subprime_nonsense.html"]Funny how all the armchair folk called this particular gem in 2007, when Ben didn't.[/URL] [QUOTE=lulzbocksV2;33541329]I'm pretty sure this is why Cupcakes said that the monetary policy should not be affected by public opinion.[/QUOTE] The assertion "technical decisions are best left in the hands of experts" does not suddenly violate basic logic and allow for fallacious appeals to authority. It can be true that monetary policy shouldn't be decided by Joe Plumber and equally true that Joe Plumber knows more than some experts. [I]Think,[/I] please, for the love of God. Well, not for God, since he ain't real. Just do it for me.

Isn't it fun how the majority of the world economy doesn't represent anything tangible in the physical "real" world?

[QUOTE=Kopimi;33540038]The concept of the bailout wasn't sound The economy still collapsed, only we managed to horribly pervert the already corrupt flavor of capitalism we've got going in the United States, so that taxpayer money, or at least, MORE taxpayer money on top of the [b]7.7 trillion[/b] that the banks received from the Federal Reserve, went to back these private institutions bad bets, so that when the banks fucked up gambling with [b]our money[/b], they didn't have to face any consequence, and we bared the brunt of the collapse while they got a bigger swimming pool and a shinier helicopter.[/QUOTE] The stimulus and the bailouts prevented the recession from turning into a depression. It is as simple as that.

Either way that's a lot of money

[QUOTE=person11;33541803]The stimulus and the bailouts prevented the recession from turning into a depression. It is as simple as that.[/QUOTE] Right, thanks to all that money we gave them, on TOP of the 7.7 [b]trillion[/b] from the Fed, we managed to not lose all of our jobs and houses! It worked so well!

Now, to make sure I piss off [I]EVERYBODY IN THE THREAD AT ONCE.[/I] [QUOTE=Kopimi;33539517]cmon guys srsly! we [b]need[/b] a private bank with the illegal ability to print money~~!![/QUOTE] 1) It ain't private. [QUOTE]There is also the misconception that the Fed is completely independent or private. This is false as it is a quasi-public entity. The Fed, like most central banks in the world, is considered "independent," which is basically a term of art meaning that its day-to-day operations are not overseen by the federal government. However, its chairman and board of governors are appointed by the president. [URL="http://factcheck.org/2008/03/federal-reserve-bank-ownership/"]It is also subject to Congressional legislation.[/URL] Under the Full Employment Act of 1946 and the Federal Reserve Reform Act of 1977, the Fed has a dual mandate to work toward full employment and to curb inflation and deflation (i.e., price stability). It is also subject to certain types of audits by the Government Accountability Office (GAO). [/QUOTE] 2) Congress has [URL="http://law.onecle.com/constitution/article-1/03-delegation-of-legislative-power.html"]the ability to delegate powers[/URL], Congress has the power to make money, the Fed is Congress's bitch. Oh, and on that note, then, Col. Muffin: not being a bunch of "Lawyers and pseudo-intellectuals like Congress is" really doesn't matter when you're beneath and subject to the whimsy of those same incorrectly capitalized lawyers and pseudo-intellectuals. [QUOTE=Kopimi;33539517]Seriously what the fuck is wrong with you people, how in gods name can you defend the Fed's existence?[/QUOTE] Good idea, executed poorly? When did central banks start being evil? [QUOTE=Kopimi;33539517]Do you people honestly fucking think that you can reform the PRIVATE BANK which controls the world reserve currency?[/QUOTE] It ain't private, and even if it was, more than one private party has a stock in it. Several are competing, and their stocks impede them all, in a way. [QUOTE=Kopimi;33539517]Do you people honestly fucking think there's any slight chance of "fixing" an institution that has done nothing but harm, that is [b]illegal and unconstitutional[/b] at the very fucking core?[/QUOTE] Well, given that's blatantly untrue, maybe. [QUOTE=Kopimi;33539517]It's like you guys just keep taking whatever they throw at you. When that smug cunt Bernanke outright refused to tell our government where billions of dollars had vanished to, oh well, thats bad but we shouldn't end the Fed, because clearly we need this illegal bank. When it came out that they were profiting heavily from the housing crisis, oh well, it's bad but we need them! Now they give away [b]7.7 trillion dollars[/b] which is [b]MORE THAN HALF[/b] of our 15 trillion dollar debt.[/QUOTE] That's all legit and well and good criticism. Stick to this and not the conspiracy theory bullshit. [QUOTE=Kopimi;33539517]At what point are you guys going to stop sucking the Fed's cock and realize that at the very core, it is an illegal and unconstitutional private bank that LITERALLY has absolute control over the printing of US dollars,[/QUOTE] Fun game: -Take the any Congressionally made and controlled agency or other body. -Claim it has "absolute control" over some aspect of the nation (e.g. the FDA has ABSOLUTE CONTROL over the U.S. FOOD SUPPLY) in a way that sounds as scary as possible. -Call it unconstitutional. You now have an argument against anything that'll work with Ron Paul revotards. [QUOTE=Kopimi;33539517]and that they've shown time and time again that, as a private bank, their motivation is PROFIT, and they will stop at nothing to further their profits.[/QUOTE] Well, funny fact, the Fed making a profit isn't an inherently bad thing, because you know what happens to its profits? [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/11/AR2010011103892.html"]They go to the Treasury![/URL] [QUOTE=Kopimi;33539517]When the fuck does your blind defense of a corrupt and overpowered institution come to an end?[/QUOTE] Kop...I like you. You should know that by now, I've had your back before. But this? This is pseudolegal conspiracy nutter tier shit. There is legit criticism one can level at the Fed, but brother, you aren't anywhere near it.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;33541844]Right, thanks to all that money we gave them, on TOP of the 7.7 [b]trillion[/b] from the Fed, we managed to not lose all of our jobs and houses! It worked so well![/QUOTE] It was never meant to magically stop all of our problems. It turned a possible depression into a recession. A terrible thing turned less terrible. The bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers is what sparked the crisis in the first place and caused thousands of jobs to be lost in just one day. If all of the banks fell, the economy would have been immeasurably worse. I don't like giving money to the banks, but it had to be done, not 8 trillion dollars of it, but there still had to be a bailout.

Bailing out massive, destructive banks just to keep them going is like seeing your car's engine is on fire and dumping fuel into it so that it will keep running. I mean, at the [I]very least[/I] keep the money you're handing them from going towards executive bonuses. That should be like point number 1 or something.

7.7 trillion. [B]7.7 FUCKING TRILLION[/B] [editline]2nd December 2011[/editline] this is a fucking outrage

[QUOTE=Phycosymo;33543773]7.7 trillion. [B]7.7 FUCKING TRILLION[/B] [editline]2nd December 2011[/editline] this is a fucking outrage[/QUOTE] [img]http://www.facepunch.com/avatar/131056.png?garryis=awesome[/img] !!! [editline]2nd December 2011[/editline] why isn't this on all the major news networks? why are we still giving a shit about who herman cain has been fucking?! [editline]2nd December 2011[/editline] [img]http://www.facepunch.com/avatar/131056.png?garryis=awesome[/img] [img]http://www.facepunch.com/avatar/131056.png?garryis=awesome[/img]

Yes we get it it is a lot of money

The problem is that the money went to type A sociopathic executives who are almost psychologically conditioned to always make bigger and bigger gambles and walk away without losing a dime and giving the finger to the rest of the country paying taxes at the same time. I don't think there's an adequate word to describe the outrage involved in this, and the fact that this was hidden from Congress at a moment when knowing about this would likely ensure that regulation to prevent this from ever happening again is just insult to having a dull knife rapidly sawed on one's genitals. All government related bodies need to be completely financially open. Every single quarter, the state of the entire government's finances needs to be detailed, line by line. The Fed, DHS, whatever. They need to have this information out in the open.

[QUOTE=ghosevil;33544047] why isn't this on all the major news networks? why are we still giving a shit about who herman cain has been fucking?[/QUOTE] The same reason that a natural/nuclear disaster that left thousands of people homeless, missing, or dead and is poisoning the surrounding sea and landscape got a fraction of the media time of the death of a creepy-looking pop-star: Entertainment.