Red cross didn't classify the Ukraine conflict as an international war: no signs of war with another - Polidicks

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46210074]Well please do so already.[/QUOTE] Sure, when your country decides to fuck off with its criminal imperialism and you and the rest of your ilk decide to stop being such willful pricks and massive apologists for all this bullshit.

[QUOTE=Govna;46211714]Sure, when your country decides to fuck off with its criminal imperialism and you and the rest of your ilk decide to stop being such willful pricks and massive apologists for all this bullshit.[/QUOTE] Because the US hasn't done anything wrong in the last century or so.

[QUOTE=GentlemanLexi;46212936]Because the US hasn't done anything wrong in the last century or so.[/QUOTE] Oh.... and over your head the point goes. That doesn't fucking matter, you don't justify your shitiness by saying "Well he's just as shitty as me!"

Wasn't there a Russian military truck convoy that crossed the border, took something from Ukraine and crossed the border again back to Russia, or was it proven false?

[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;46212993]Oh.... and over your head the point goes. That doesn't fucking matter, you don't justify your shitiness by saying "Well he's just as shitty as me!"[/QUOTE] I'm not justifying shittiness, I'm just pointing out that he has no right to tell Russia to fuck off. [editline]12th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Tinbe;46213029]Wasn't there a Russian military truck convoy that crossed the border, took something from Ukraine and crossed the border again back to Russia, or was it proven false?[/QUOTE] According to the OSCE, they found the trucks with minimal amounts of food supplies. According to other media sites, they contained soldiers.

[QUOTE=Tinbe;46213029]Wasn't there a Russian military truck convoy that crossed the border, took something from Ukraine and crossed the border again back to Russia, or was it proven false?[/QUOTE] It wasn't proven false or true, as I remember nobody knew where the info came from. Only a pro-UA site reported it. If you are talking about that article that was on FP about Russian white truck aid convoy stealing weapons and industrial complexes from Ukraine that is.

And what of the video you claimed you would 'watch later' that showed a Russian column demonstrably inside Ukrainian territory Muffin? I see you're still here denying any Russian military involvement in Ukraine, I hope you're not denying and outright ignoring evidence to the contrary; how unbefitting of the Putin apologists!

[QUOTE=RVFHarrier;46213180]And what of the video you claimed you would 'watch later' that showed a Russian column demonstrably inside Ukrainian territory Muffin? I see you're still here denying any Russian military involvement in Ukraine, I hope you're not denying and outright ignoring evidence to the contrary; how unbefitting of the Putin apologists![/QUOTE] I commented on that video in the thread we discussed it in.

This doesn't prove anything. This is not a declaration by the ICRC that Russia (or any foreign state) is not involved. Furthermore, even if Russia is proven to be involved, this classification would still stand as foreign intervention in such a case does not suddenly make it an international war - for example, the Somali Civil War involved military assistance from Ethiopia and the USA but was still classed as a non-international armed conflict. It is important to note that a foreign force can become involved in a NIAC if it is invited to participate by one or more of the combatants. In the case of the Somali Civil War example: [quote]Although Ethiopian forces (and initially some US forces) were involved in the conflict in Somalia, they were acting at the invitation of, and in coalition with, the Somali Transitional Federal Government.[/quote] ([url]http://www.hrw.org/reports/2007/somalia0807/9.htm[/url]) Furthermore, your article (or, rather, the note under the main picture) states: [quote]The Red Cross has equated the situation in Ukraine to conflicts in Syria and Libya[/quote] Clearly the Red Cross would not liken the situation to Libya if one of the main points it is trying to get across is that it cannot find evidence of foreign assistance. Finally, I could not find any mention of the following in the article: [quote]Red Cross did not find signs of the war in Ukraine with another State[/quote] So I am not sure where you pulled that from.

[QUOTE=David29;46213517]This doesn't prove anything. This is not a declaration by the ICRC that Russia (or any foreign state) is not involved. Furthermore, even if Russia is proven to be involved, this classification would still stand as foreign intervention in such a case does not suddenly make it an international war - for example, the Somali Civil War involved military assistance from Ethiopia and the USA but was still classed as a non-international armed conflict. [/QUOTE] I never said Russia is not involved. [QUOTE=David29;46213517] Finally, I could not find any mention of the following in the article: -words- So I am not sure where you pulled that from.[/QUOTE] The headline.

[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;46212993]Oh.... and over your head the point goes. That doesn't fucking matter, you don't justify your shitiness by saying "Well he's just as shitty as me!"[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Laserbeams;46203350]What does Russia have to do with it? "Russia is shit too" is not an argument[/QUOTE] First one is praised. Second one was dumbed. WTF

[QUOTE=DrAkcel;46214262]First one is praised. Second one was dumbed. WTF[/QUOTE] Difference of opinion over threads? I dunno.

Anybody who uses that argument in any situation is an idiot who's using a logical fallacy.

[QUOTE=DrAkcel;46214262]First one is praised. Second one was dumbed. WTF[/QUOTE] Different people rated them, so so what :v: If it where the same people giving two different ratings, then it would be confusing.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46213711]I never said Russia is not involved.[/QUOTE] You're back peddling. You have made a number of posts alluding to the idea that you don't believe that Russian forces were/are in Ukraine and that this article supports this belief: [QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46206353]Apparently neither red cross or OSCE found any russian troops or vehicles.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46206432]Red Cross is basically saying that there were no signs of another state directly taking part in the fun. Either russkies are carefully hidden (which means russkies can somehow hide artillery from satelites) or russkies didn't directly take part in the proxy war.[/QUOTE]

He is not. He said Red Cross hasn't found them, which doesn't mean he think there are no Russian forces. Two diffirent things.

[QUOTE=GentlemanLexi;46212936]Because the US hasn't done anything wrong in the last century or so.[/QUOTE] No, can't say we in the last century ever engineered any famines or campaigns of political repression to ethnically cleanse millions of people (more than 20 million, collectively counting together Lenin's bloody policies, and certainly Stalin's with the Great Purge, Holodomor, Dekulakization, all the rapes and murders that were brushed off as unimportant during the Second World War, those who died in the gulags, etc.) the exact numbers of will never be known because of just the sheer number that were being murdered, or ever gave way into political turmoil and allowed a dictatorship to be established. When did you strike up such a love affair for Russia anyway, Finn?

[QUOTE=Govna;46215557]No, can't say we in the last century ever engineered any famines or campaigns of political repression to ethnically cleanse between millions of people (more than 20 million, collectively counting together Lenin's bloody policies, and certainly Stalin's with the Great Purge, Holodomor, Dekulakization, all the rapes and murders that were brushed off as unimportant during the Second World War, those who died in the gulags, etc.) the exact numbers of will never be known because of just the sheer number that were being murdered, or ever gave way into political turmoil and allowed a dictatorship to be established. When did you strike up such a love affair for Russia anyway, Finn?[/QUOTE] Every sentence of yours in previous 2 days is just flowing with hate to Russia and it's citizens. Why so?

[QUOTE=GentlemanLexi;46212936]Because the US hasn't done anything wrong in the last century or so.[/QUOTE] One guy's dad murdered a hundred people, and if that guy decides to scold another person's son for murder of any number below 100, he is somehow not justified in that because his dad killed more? Despite the fact that he had no power in his dad's decision and he finds murder of any quantity abhorrent?

[QUOTE=DrAkcel;46215587]Every sentence of yours in previous 2 days is just flowing with hate to Russia and it's citizens. Why so?[/QUOTE] Because this is a routine I see everywhere on the Internet now, since this whole thing started, and I'm sick of it and even sicker of others not calling it out. You people are happily defending this kind of illegal invasion and underhanded tactics used to support it and legitimize it, not only with the Ukraine proper and its fight against the eastern rebels but you were especially guilty of it with the Crimea back when that was the big thing in the news. That whole bullshit referendum that had no international oversight and had the balls to claim something like a 97% approval rate for the option of annexation into Russia, the mysterious soldiers in unmarked uniforms who started appearing everywhere, etc. And when you're not defending it, you're being stupidly indifferent to it or trying to claim it's not a big deal or try to deny it's happening altogether. The amount of idiocy, arrogance, and lies that have erupted out of not only your government but your own people as well, who seem to actually have a pretty high approval for Putin and his behavior, is ridiculous. There's been good reason to hate the Russian government for many, many years now; lately, however, there's also been good reason to hate the Russian people themselves too. Not all of them support this behavior of recent times, true, but a lot do. Too many do. And that's a problem, not just for Ukraine but for the entire world. I hate your government and anyone who defends it or downplays the significance of its outrageousness, especially when it comes to people here in the West who do so.

[QUOTE=David29;46215425]You're back peddling. You have made a number of posts alluding to the idea that you don't believe that Russian forces were/are in Ukraine and that this article supports this belief:[/QUOTE] No, you don't understand what I mean. I mean no Russian soldiers under Russian command fought in Ukraine. No Russian artillery shot at anyone during the conflict. The rebels did it, even though they are most luckily funded by Russia. Maybe there were Russian forces there, but as DrAkcel said I am just stating that neither OSCE or Red Cross found them. [editline]12th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Govna;46215804]Because this is a routine I see everywhere on the Internet now, since this whole thing started, and I'm sick of it and even sicker of others not calling it out. You people are happily defending this kind of illegal invasion and underhanded tactics used to support it and legitimize it, not only with the Ukraine proper and its fight against the eastern rebels but you were especially guilty of it with the Crimea back when that was the big thing in the news. That whole bullshit referendum that had no international oversight and had the balls to claim something like a 97% approval rate for the option of annexation into Russia, the mysterious soldiers in unmarked uniforms who started appearing everywhere, etc. And when you're not defending it, you're being stupidly indifferent to it or trying to claim it's not a big deal or try to deny it's happening altogether. The amount of idiocy, arrogance, and lies that have erupted out of not only your government but your own people as well, who seem to actually have a pretty high approval for Putin and his behavior, is ridiculous. There's been good reason to hate the Russian government for many, many years now; lately, however, there's also been good reason to hate the Russian people themselves too. Not all of them support this behavior of recent times, true, but a lot do. Too many do. And that's a problem, not just for Ukraine but for the entire world. I hate your government and anyone who defends it or downplays the significance of its outrageousness, especially when it comes to people here in the West who do so.[/QUOTE] You take politics too seriously. Chill, it's not like Putin did anything bad to you.

From my point of view, only unknowing people ready to discuss it day and night. For me, this is already not so a big deal, as I am in contact of many Crimea citizens (and yes, I've asked them all - they voted Yes, and extremely happy with it, one even was a watcher at referendum), and with some Donetsk and Kyiv inhabitants. Of course there is no neo-nazi country of ethnic killers, as russian media like to paint it, but there is also not a heaven on earth, as was promised to Ukraine if it will join EU. Some of the Kyiv citizens doubt, was it worth it at all. Some even planning new maidan. That's why I am out of there lately. Sometimes telling something that I see as wrong, but barely feel anger, or need to prove anything. If a person is smart, he will look for every source possible by himself, and can come to honest and right conclusion. If he is not... well, my words won't change anything, I just risk to claim his butthurt anger at me, which is unpleasant. I don't claim to know everything, and no one shouldn't. This is information war, where proof even from government should be in doubt. [editline]12th October 2014[/editline] Just don't forget - governments are trying to make us fight. Don't let them, we are all people. And be neutral. Don't let the hate flow make you a monster.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46215928] You take politics too seriously.[/QUOTE] I would never take politics lightly.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46215928] You take politics too seriously. Chill, it's not like Putin did anything bad to you.[/QUOTE] In what recess of your broken brain did you think this was in any way relevant to anything? Are people unable to be outraged at your armed incursion (with satellite imagery or convoys from Russia into Ukraine) into a sovereign country? [editline]13th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=DrAkcel;46216084] Just don't forget - governments are trying to make us fight. Don't let them, we are all people. And be neutral. Don't let the hate flow make you a monster.[/QUOTE] I'd be happy to fight you if it meant your government took a hit. The Government is the representative of the people after all. If your government is this fucked up then it stands to reason that a large enough majority of Russians either don't care or do support their actions.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46209439]I have no intention to argue about things I have argued about for over 3 times already. I am responding to an accusation of twisting something to my advantage.[/QUOTE] They show satellite photos proving what you claim is not true. This was released by NATO. Why is it, when you are presented with evidence, you beat around the bush? You never make much sense.

[QUOTE=Pilot1215;46220562]They show satellite photos proving what you claim is not true. This was released by NATO. Why is it, when you are presented with evidence, you beat around the bush? You never make much sense.[/QUOTE] So one side of a conflict that is directly interested in one outcome of the conflict releases blurry black and white images of unknown vehicles. No thanks, I will wait for OSCE or somebody else not so politically interested to release some info.