America is not happy. All politicians approval ratings are in the shitter - Polidicks

[QUOTE=catbarf;45667421]Sometimes I wonder how many Americans complaining about how terrible America has become have actually lived somewhere else, or are old enough to have any sense about how things used to be. America has always been shitty because [I]everywhere[/I] has always been shitty. In spite of the universal shittiness of the human condition, our job market is relatively stable, our people are relatively well-taken-care of, our politics are relatively free from corruption. Over the last century, pretty much everything has gotten demonstrably better. If you have a roof over your head, a supermarket full of fresh food down the street, clean running water, stable electricity, and can vote in elections while being reasonably sure that the ballots aren't being stuffed, you have it better than the overwhelming majority of the rest of the world. We have a poor healthcare system, yet people regularly survive illnesses that are lethal in the developing world. We have a struggling educational system, yet we churn out so many skilled professionals that they have to compete for jobs they're overqualified for. Our government takes actions we disagree with, but we have the direct power to remove them from office without seriously worrying about a military crackdown. We have some of the worst income disparity in the developed world, yet our median standard of living is among the best in the world. America is not perfect by any means. But everyone thinks the grass is greener on the other side, and I suspect if people in this thread made good on their promises to emigrate that many would be disappointed by what they'd find. No matter where you go, people suffer, there are injustices that harm innocents, and everyone struggles in their own way. And there are many people who would kill to have the opportunities you do in this country, which should be obvious our immigration rates. I thought America was shit and couldn't wait to leave, until I spent years of my life in East Africa and the Middle East, and traveled across the rest of the world. I don't expect anyone to think America is the greatest country in the world, but before talking about how awful things are here you need to keep some goddamn perspective, [I]especially[/I] if you've never lived anywhere else.[/QUOTE] I agree with your point about keeping it in perspective, and I do. From the perspective comparing Western Europe to America, they have it better. Also the middle class is shrinking in the US, and has been ever since the value of money started plummeting in relation to our stagnant wages. Every place wants to pay the bare minimum to keep people around, rather than a good middle class wage like it used to be. All the while corporations make record profits during the worst economic crash in recent history. Politicians don't care, they're rich and have everything taken care for them. Corporations effectively have more speech than we do because they have more money, making the ideas of a few affect us disproportionately. I think we have the right to complain about worsening conditions. We're falling apart both physically and systematically with an insulated government.

[QUOTE=Stopper;45668258]And, I don't mean to sound offensive here, please don't take this the wrong way, but your idealistic views are a bit out of touch. The citizens of a country like America have every right to be displeased with their situation and saying that just because people are hungry in Africa or being killed right now in the Middle East doesn't alleviate the issue. In the grand scheme of things it might not matter, but seeing as how most of us will never have a connecting point with those struggling countries other than over the internet, we can only look at our situation and all the means to improve it. [/QUOTE] I get what you're saying about comparing the US to similar first-world countries, but then you're comparing the US against the very best countries on Earth at the best time in human history. To be living in the US in the 21st century and complain about how things are better in a handful of other countries is like a multi-millionaire comparing himself to Bill Gates and lamenting about how much richer Gates is than him. There's nothing wrong with comparing the US to European countries and noting where they get it better, but there are areas where they get it worse, and either way it's still very different from what most people outside Europe and North America experience and have experienced historically. There's a huge difference between someone else's experience being [i]better[/i] and your own being [i]bad[/i]. I mean, you defended Russia because I mentioned it. Have you lived in Russia? Businesses having miles of red tape to go through (over a year on average just to build a warehouse), [url=http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/939659ae-b67d-11e3-b230-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3ADd5GLeF]institutionalized corruption at every level[/url], bribes being a way of life. On top of that you have a rigged political system that has allowed an autocrat to remain in power indefinitely and an alarmingly short life expectancy for what is supposed to be a developed nation. So it seems utterly absurd to me when Americans complain about corrupt government, when they have never had to bribe a policeman to avoid unjustified arrest or a tax collector to avoid a falsified audit, actually get to vote for who leads them, and are [url=http://www.transparency.org/cpi2013/results]among the top 20 least corrupt nations[/url]. Our system isn't perfect, not by a long shot- but that doesn't mean it's [i]bad[/i] if it works better than most of the rest of the world, and if someone's itching to leave the US on account of corrupt politics, expecting things to be better elsewhere, they're in for a rude awakening. I'm not saying there aren't legitimate, real things to complain about, I'm saying that in my experience I've found that the people who have traveled and experienced the most are the ones who complain the least about their standards of living here, and are the most willing to engage in the established process to effect change on those issues that do matter. It's the people who have never experienced living elsewhere and get all their information from the Internet who seem to complain the strongest about how terrible life is here, and then most make no effort to actually change things.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;45672540]voting with a system that's not working doesn't really let anyone do much of anything vote wise.[/QUOTE] last time I checked the voting system works well. People are just apathetic when it comes to politics then complain when shit doesnt work out

[QUOTE=Duck M.;45670106]I think people are just frustrated about the perceived futility of such efforts. This nation is selfish and has wads of money so far up it's ass that it disregards basic human necessity for profit and the government has been nothing but a means to that end through incessant lobbying and gerrymandering. The nation is a plutocracy, our education system is fucked and shackles the future of the nation in debt, health care is a fucking joke, and those in power are selfish. Our politicians are too occupied with petty partisan squabbles to get anything legislated, hence the low approval ratings. I'm going to vote as soon as I can but our very voting system has issues as is and simply does not allow for third party candidates and leaves only room for a two party system that is a detriment to the country. I'm sick and tired of the fuck you, got mine attitude people have. The poster a few pages back said it best when he compared the American workforce to easy replaceable cogs, because lets face it, in a country where some states have "right to work" trash there isn't much we can to do change that until politicians wise up.[/QUOTE] But all of that shit can be stopped, the only reason its a percieved infutility is because no one wants to fucking [B]DO[/B] anything about it. This whole issue is because of Americans, not because the government suddenly ran off in a tail spin. We put it in that tailspin. [editline]12th August 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;45672540]voting with a system that's not working doesn't really let anyone do much of anything vote wise.[/QUOTE] Then mass-non-voting. Or even better, just vote for someone else and get it enmasse. The system isn't designed for it but if you get enough of it going there's going to be serious look at redoing the voting system. Seriously, doing nothing, means nothing will happen. You're picking a side when you don't vote, you're picking a side when you sit on the damn fence.

American voting system is really weird from my point of view, in your system each voting district can have only one winner (plus ruling party can define and edit them). While in many Europen counties, ech voting district can have multipile winners: [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_representation[/URL] In American system it's really hard for other parties get any seats in legistrative bodies, while the two current ones are relatively similar (and still hating each other for whatever reasons). [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plurality_voting_system[/url] [QUOTE][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger%27s_law"]Duverger's law[/URL] is a theory that constituencies that use first-past-the-post systems will have a [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-party_system"]two-party system[/URL], given enough time. First-past-the-post tends to reduce the number of political parties to a greater extent than most other methods do, making it more likely that a single party will hold a majority of legislative seats. (In the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom"]United Kingdom[/URL], 21 out of 24 General Elections since 1922 have produced a single-party majority government.) FPTP's tendency toward fewer parties and more frequent one-party rules can also produce government that may not consider as wide a range of perspectives and concerns. It is entirely possible that a voter finds all major parties to have similar views on issues and that a voter does not have a meaningful way of expressing a dissenting opinion through his vote. As fewer choices are offered to voters, voters may vote for a candidate although they disagree with him, because they disagree even more with his opponents. Consequently, candidates will less closely reflect the viewpoints of those who vote for them. [/QUOTE] I can hardly even call U.S a democracy. [editline]13th August 2014[/editline] Could write more detailed and better text for the issue, but it's 4am here, so i'm going to sleep.

[QUOTE=oskutin;45673835]I can hardly even call U.S a democracy.[/QUOTE] Because it's not. It's a republic.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;45671099]Tired of seeing shit like "well you dont vote so you have no say" voting in most areas don't fucking matter. Most politicians who gain the most momentum are the ones with fuckloads of money (who would have thought) from donations from large businesses who want it their way or they will cut their donations. They put on a pretty face in public saying they care, but they only really care about getting more funding from businesses to get reelected. Third parties will never get voted in unless they get the amount of money that the two other parties get.[/QUOTE] Then challenge the guy with loads of money, are they actually buy votes. Please tell me that they are actually buy votes because it that were true, do you know the shit storm that would happen. The whole "but money" doesn't work when its not actually used for anything other than fucking advertising. [editline]12th August 2014[/editline] Fuck's Sake, I'm a Socialist. I don't even have a voice in the system because of fear mongering and yet I can still see that its the apathetic, lazy, and weak-willed nature of the American people to blame.

[QUOTE=Swilly;45673920]Then challenge the guy with loads of money, are they actually buy votes. Please tell me that they are actually buy votes because it that were true, do you know the shit storm that would happen. [B]The whole "but money" doesn't work when its not actually used for anything other than fucking advertising.[/B] [editline]12th August 2014[/editline] Fuck's Sake, I'm a Socialist. I don't even have a voice in the system because of fear mongering and yet I can still see that its the apathetic, lazy, and weak-willed nature of the American people to blame.[/QUOTE] holy shit there ya go, you proved my point. the vast majority of people who vote are the elderly. Voting closes within hours of most people's shifts from work meaning the polls are normally swamped on voting day with only 1-2 hours to vote when you get off. That's why most adds focus on the elderly in mind talking how one party is fucking them. If you knew fucking anything about our voting system you would know 90% of the campaign is money for advertisements since no one really wants to sit down and study each candidate because they got to work or want to fucking relax.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;45674168]holy shit there ya go, you proved my point. the vast majority of people who vote are the elderly. Voting closes within hours of most people's shifts from work meaning the polls are normally swamped on voting day with only 1-2 hours to vote when you get off. That's why most adds focus on the elderly in mind talking how one party is fucking them. If you knew fucking anything about our voting system you would know 90% of the campaign is money for advertisements since no one really wants to sit down and study each candidate because they got to work or want to fucking relax.[/QUOTE] You're gonna need to cite polling stations closing down early since the ones in my area are usually open till 7 PM and are provided in enough locations that's its a 5 minute walk. If you're blaming American's being lazy or wanting to relax, then no amount of reform is going to fix that, ever.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;45674168]holy shit there ya go, you proved my point. the vast majority of people who vote are the elderly. Voting closes within hours of most people's shifts from work meaning the polls are normally swamped on voting day with only 1-2 hours to vote when you get off. That's why most adds focus on the elderly in mind talking how one party is fucking them. If you knew fucking anything about our voting system you would know 90% of the campaign is money for advertisements since no one really wants to sit down and study each candidate because they got to work or want to fucking relax.[/QUOTE] I don't know where you live, but even here in Louisiana, everyone gets off early or at some point during the day to go vote unless it's a critical job, in which case arrangements are made for you to slip out. Hell, it's even a holiday for state employees....

[QUOTE=Swilly;45674185]You're gonna need to cite polling stations closing down early since the ones in my area are usually open till 7 PM and are provided in enough locations that's its a 5 minute walk. If you're blaming American's being lazy or wanting to relax, then no amount of reform is going to fix that, ever.[/QUOTE] yeah good job reading my post, my nearest voting station is 10 miles away and closes at 6pm. most people come home from work around 4-5pm. Working class can't afford to miss time off and its fucking shown in polls like this: [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/Voter_Turnout_by_Income%2C_2008_US_Presidential_Election.png[/IMG] People who make less can't vote half the time because they are too fucking tired or cant travel to the nearest voting location for various reasons. If you're honestly going to sit here and say the working class is lazy because they can't miss work or have personal stuff to do after work is pathetic and selfish and not even the fucking problem. As stated above, even if you voted for a third party (lmao i would never see that with elderly voters to begin with), the chances are slim of them getting in due to gerrymandering and having a single winner instead of an handful to choose from. If you reform by removing corporate donations and bribes you would have more candidates that would be forced to listen to the people instead of the corporations because that's where their money is mostly coming from to run in the first place.

Poorer people are also generally less politically informed, younger, etc. All groups that are less likely to vote. Do you have any actual causal evidence for your claim?

[QUOTE=codemaster85;45674311] People who make less can't vote half the time because they are too fucking tired or cant travel to the nearest voting location for various reasons. [/QUOTE] This is the poorest excuse for not making it to the polling location. We have alternatives then in person voting.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;45674311]yeah good job reading my post, my nearest voting station is 10 miles away and closes at 6pm. most people come home from work around 4-5pm. Working class can't afford to miss time off and its fucking shown in polls like this: [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/Voter_Turnout_by_Income%2C_2008_US_Presidential_Election.png[/IMG] People who make less can't vote half the time because they are too fucking tired or cant travel to the nearest voting location for various reasons. If you're honestly going to sit here and say the working class is lazy because they can't miss work or have personal stuff to do after work is pathetic and selfish and not even the fucking problem. As stated above, even if you voted for a third party (lmao i would never see that with elderly voters to begin with), the chances are slim of them getting in due to gerrymandering and having a single winner instead of an handful to choose from. If you reform by removing corporate donations and bribes you would have more candidates that would be forced to listen to the people instead of the corporations because that's where their money is mostly coming from to run in the first place.[/QUOTE] Funfact:You can mail in your vote. Second Funfact, a point I didn't counter earlier:It takes less than 5 minutes to google information about the candidates in your area.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;45671888]I don't see what's so ironic considering flagdog clearly states the user is American. This is what they're referring to: Article V discusses the process for constitutional amendments and explicitly allows for states to override Congress (i.e. the federal government) if two thirds of the states agree. It's a fundamental democratic mechanism.[/QUOTE] Um, yes? That was exactly what I was alluding to? We're in the topic of how shit everything is and a couple of people raised points about how America isn't the bastion of liberty it used to be. When a European reads his post, they're reminded of our Article V, which deals with the topic of basic rights. Hence, it is funny. The fact that I've had to explain it though, destroyed any potential of getting a laugh out of it...

i don't know why people hate obama i think obama is a good president but the president doesn't run the government by himself

[QUOTE=Swilly;45674651]It takes less than 5 minutes to google information about the candidates in your area.[/QUOTE] Searching is easy but understanding all their positions isn't

[QUOTE=Swilly;45674651]Funfact:You can mail in your vote. Second Funfact, a point I didn't counter earlier:It takes less than 5 minutes to google information about the candidates in your area.[/QUOTE] Fun fact, some states don't allow you to email your ballot. Second fun fact, the fucking problem is that politicians are not in it for the people's benefit but the corporate and subsequently party benefit. Thats a fucking massive reason why people dont vote and are unhappy because its a fucking cycle that cant be broken till a reform.

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;45675579]Searching is easy but understanding all their positions isn't[/QUOTE] It's better than not doing anything. You don't need to go indepth to figure out whether you agree with a candidate. [editline]13th August 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=codemaster85;45675661]Fun fact, some states don't allow you to email your ballot. Second fun fact, the fucking problem is that politicians are not in it for the people's benefit but the corporate and subsequently party benefit. Thats a fucking massive reason why people dont vote and are unhappy because its a fucking cycle that cant be broken till a reform.[/QUOTE] A. I meant mail, almost no one allows email because its easy to fraud. B.That's a shit reason. I mean a really shit reason, when you have people taking part in elections that can get them killed quite easily, "Corporate Conspiracies" is what is stopping you.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;45659108]But Obamacare went into action didn't it? and what alphabet soup agencies? I have no idea what those are. Honestly none of this shit is currently affecting me, my family's medical care is just fine. I am just fine. I have a nice home, I eat alot of great delicious food, and I can buy a shit ton of video games. I ride my bike all over the city and besides general Chicago crap like the potholes and the Mayor being daft with the Traffic cameras, everything is just peachy here. Unless Congress does something, really something to upset me, then I'm quite content.[/QUOTE] And what about your fellow man? What do you see when you take a walk down the street? Is everything fine and dandy in your area? Well, congratulations, you've avoided being plunged into the fucking shitholes where it's literally last man standing. [I]You[/I] are fine [I]now[/I], [I]you[/I] eat lots of great delicious food [I]now[/I], but you're only talking about yourself instead of looking at people who have it harder. This short-sighted egocentric mentality is what made America what it is today.

[QUOTE=Swilly;45675665]It's better than not doing anything. You don't need to go indepth to figure out whether you agree with a candidate. [editline]13th August 2014[/editline] A. I meant mail, almost no one allows email because its easy to fraud. B.That's a shit reason. I mean a really shit reason, when you have people taking part in elections that can get them killed quite easily, "Corporate Conspiracies" is what is stopping you.[/QUOTE] Those "corporate conspiracies" are a real fucking thing called PACs, I have no idea how you can sit here and actually be fucking blind to it completely: [url]http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_action_committee[/url] Put it this way, anyone thats not fucking blind knows the F-35 program is a massive flop, why in the fuck does congress keep throwing tax dollars at it? Because lockheed lobbies the fuck out of them to keep the contract. So yes it is a massive fucking problem and its one of the major reasons why people don't feel like they fucking matter anyway. Gerrymandering is another whole can of worms that shits on the public's vote because lmao state/district majority.

well yet again I say im moving to Canada when I can