Guild Wars 2 weapon exploit leads to 3,000 perma-bans - Polidicks

If this was about placing a comma wrongly, here in Denmark (and I assume a lot of other places) our system is compeltely the opposite of what it is in the US and that alike - commas seperate the integers from the decimals, and periods the thousands. It's an honest mistake, and people shouldn't exploit it on purpose.

[QUOTE=-nesto-;37492842]72 hours is a pretty light sentence considering what they did. I was banned 2 days into a fresh sub for 30 days for saying something "racist" in WoW.[/QUOTE] It was probably actually racist.

Bugs exist in games. You can't fucking remove all of them. For every bug you've found on release day, they've fixed a hundred before release. Just because they made a mistake, it's their game, you agreed not to fuck over everyone else by cheating. Fuck you cheater, you're a piece of shit, you deserve nothing.

By this logic, this thread would defend a man who got his driving license taken away from him if the first thing he did was completely wreck the speed limit and drive like a retard. It's not his fault that he's able to do that with his car so he shouldn't be punished for it! Shine on guys, shine on.

[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;37493491]By this logic, this thread would defend a man who got his driving license taken away from him if the first thing he did was completely wreck the speed limit and drive like a retard. It's not his fault that he's able to do that with his car so he shouldn't be punished for it! Shine on guys, shine on.[/QUOTE] It's more like if a store priced their stuff wrong, then people came along bought it all and started selling it themselves.

[QUOTE=RAG Frag;37494167]It's more like if a store priced their stuff wrong, then people came along bought it all and started selling it themselves.[/QUOTE] Yeah but if the store made you agree to terms and conditions first that said 'If you find a price is wrong and exploit that willingly and not report it to us, we'll ban you from ever using our store again' then it'd be fine for them to go ahead and ban them for exploiting.

I would have patched the exploit and be done, with a warning though that future exploit abuses would be bannable. Seems pointless at such an early state of the game to ban people for finding a hole in your game.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;37494201]I would have patched the exploit and be done, with a warning though that future exploit abuses would be bannable. Seems pointless at such an early state of the game to ban people for finding a hole in your game.[/QUOTE]Actually the important part is to eliminate excessive equipment gained through the exploit at such early stage. 3 days ban isn't even a lot unless all you do is sit on your pc and play one game. You should not abuse something that is working not the way it's meant to. And then brag on reddit. This is an MMO with persistent world, the flow of equipment and money is important. The bans are also warnings for other players to not exploit bugs if such are found. Anyone who finds this wrong is a weird person in my eyes. Leaving the exploiters alone would actually harm the world as it's still young.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;37494253]Actually the important part is to eliminate excessive equipment gained through the exploit at such early stage. 3 days ban isn't even a lot unless all you do is sit on your pc and play one game. You should not abuse something that is working not the way it's meant to. And then brag on reddit. This is an MMO with persistent world, the flow of equipment and money is important. The bans are also warnings for other players to not exploit bugs if such are found. Anyone who finds this wrong is a weird person in my eyes.[/QUOTE] Plenty of games have had larger exploits in them and bans aren't delivered; the exploit is simply covered. And those are games that had extensive beta testing. Guild Wars 2 had a few beta weekends and the occasional stress test. Yeah 3 days isn't long, because this was a one time chance at getting away from a permanent ban, which would have been ridiculous. I'm not trying to play the blame game here, it's not either parties fault specifically. I'm just saying what I would have done.

I for one find it hilariously sad when people come into these threads trying to justify cheating, especially for something like this. Years and years into WoW and there's still an occasional bug or exploit, [I]especially[/I] after they release expansions. Its a cycle of life with mmos, you instantly have dinks who just want to break shit and make money; they look intently for things to slide by, playtesters just aren't driven to go find stupid little things that some of the more explorative glitch finders do. There's already "buy gold cheap" scams and "services" advertising leveling. If people can get tons of in game money for little effort, what's to stop them from turning it over to gold sellers and scanners, or becoming them themselves? I fully support a strict regiment, its a deterrent for assholes and scanners that says "its fucking easy to have your $60 investment fall through, don't push the wrong buttons on purpose"

[QUOTE=daijitsu;37496454]I for one find it hilariously sad when people come into these threads trying to justify cheating, especially for something like this. Years and years into WoW and there's still an occasional bug or exploit, [I]especially[/I] after they release expansions. Its a cycle of life with mmos, you instantly have dinks who just want to break shit and make money; they look intently for things to slide by, playtesters just aren't driven to go find stupid little things that some of the more explorative glitch finders do. There's already "buy gold cheap" scams and "services" advertising leveling. If people can get tons of in game money for little effort, what's to stop them from turning it over to gold sellers and scanners, or becoming them themselves? I fully support a strict regiment, its a deterrent for assholes and scanners that says "its fucking easy to have your $60 investment fall through, don't push the wrong buttons on purpose"[/QUOTE] I see a lot of people here are posting without actually knowing what went on so here it is: There are 2 currency's in the game, karma and coins, karma isn't the easiest to get but with karma you can buy weapons and other stuff in special shops, one of these shops had the wrong price for some cooking ingredients, which allowed you to make food that you could sell for a decent amount, (10k karma for 6 gold). Most of the people who did this, it seemed like a legitimate thing since, how were they supposed to know how much the prices should be, all they were doing is converting one currency to another, while the prices were too low, at the time no one could possibly know the weren't the correct prices. This glitch was just an npc selling some ingredients for the wrong price. While the gold/weapons/ingredients should be removed people's accounts shouldn't be banned for this.

[QUOTE=tdnoob;37498781]I see a lot of people here are posting without actually knowing what went on so here it is: There are 2 currency's in the game, karma and coins, karma isn't the easiest to get but with karma you can buy weapons and other stuff in special shops, one of these shops had the wrong price for some cooking ingredients, which allowed you to make food that you could sell for a decent amount, (10k karma for 6 gold). Most of the people who did this, it seemed like a legitimate thing since, how were they supposed to know how much the prices should be, all they were doing is converting one currency to another, while the prices were too low, at the time no one could possibly know the weren't the correct prices. This glitch was just an npc selling some ingredients for the wrong price. While the gold/weapons/ingredients should be removed people's accounts shouldn't be banned for this.[/QUOTE] That wasn't all. Noone got banned for that one except Kripp who advertised it on his stream to 3k viewers. People got banned for purchasing karma vendor weapons who sold most weapons for 1k and then one weapon for 21. It was obviously a bug yet they purchased hundreds of these weapons from the karma vendor.

so not only are they banning thousands of people but then they're making fun of them on reddit thats a great marketing strategy

This is known as something I would call a petty crime and its dangerous of the team to perm ban 3k people for a exploit. Yes some have deliberately exploited the games mechanics but its the teams own fault for not being thorough. The smart way to handle this would be to take away the exploiting weapons and give the players a black mark/warning, as far as I understand they have only started to replace the perms with suspensions because of the fucking shit storm if caused for such a petty rule breaking. Sensationalist headlines like this are a very good path to putting a negative light onto your game, most people won't even read the article but just the title and form a opinion based of that, does this MMO team really want to be known as the guys who perm ban people for petty shit? I wouldn't. Most people are starting to think these guys are the second bioware.

[QUOTE=Lurke;37499196]so not only are they banning thousands of people but then they're making fun of them on reddit thats a great marketing strategy[/QUOTE] It seems to work.

[QUOTE=Vasili;37499303]This is known as something I would call a petty crime and its dangerous of the team to perm ban 3k people for a exploit. Yes some have deliberately exploited the games mechanics but its the teams own fault for not being thorough. The smart way to handle this would be to take away the exploiting weapons and give the players a black mark/warning, as far as I understand they have only started to replace the perms with suspensions because of the fucking shit storm if caused for such a petty rule breaking. Sensationalist headlines like this are a very good path to putting a negative light onto your game, most people won't even read the article but just the title and form a opinion based of that, does this MMO team really want to be known as the guys who perm ban people for petty shit? I wouldn't. Most people are starting to think these guys are the second bioware.[/QUOTE]They couldn't just take them away because they had already been put on the market and sold, so trying to track them down would be incredibly hard. Then you would have to figure out how much was paid for them and refund that to the buyers. You'd also have to determine if those buyers were in anyway responsible for it. Its an incredibly difficult and infeasible concept. Second, when you break a rule and intentionally and maliciously exploit a bug in the system, you should expect to be banned for it, regardless of whether or not some might consider it petty. Second, if people judge just by the title, they'll see "Weapon exploit leads to 3000 permanent bans." and think "Well, they must have deserved it for exploiting weapons." Also, the only people who are thinking ArenaNet is acting like Bioware are people like you who don't really understand the situation.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;37500059]They couldn't just take them away because they had already been put on the market and sold, so trying to track them down would be incredibly hard. Then you would have to figure out how much was paid for them and refund that to the buyers. You'd also have to determine if those buyers were in anyway responsible for it. Its an incredibly difficult and infeasible concept. Second, when you break a rule and intentionally and maliciously exploit a bug in the system, you should expect to be banned for it, regardless of whether or not some might consider it petty. Second, if people judge just by the title, they'll see "Weapon exploit leads to 3000 permanent bans." and think "Well, they must have deserved it for exploiting weapons." Also, the only people who are thinking ArenaNet is acting like Bioware are people like you who don't really understand the situation.[/QUOTE] If shit is logged properly they should be able to tell in no time. If not, then yeah.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;37500137]If shit is logged properly they should be able to tell in no time. If not, then yeah.[/QUOTE] And then what? You go through every player action for the last 2 days to determine who cheated and then they get away scott free while the devs have to laboriously fix what the cheaters screwed up? A rollback? Punish the legit players who played during that time? Eh?

[QUOTE=scout1;37500200]And then what? You go through every player action for the last 2 days to determine who cheated and then they get away scott free while the devs have to laboriously fix what the cheaters screwed up? A rollback? Punish the legit players who played during that time? Eh?[/QUOTE] Or you know, filter by transactions, filter by items. Run scan for names in the 3000 offender list. Less than an hour of work.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;37500294]Or you know, filter by transactions, filter by items. Run scan for names in the 3000 offender list. Less than an hour of work.[/QUOTE] They already knew who the offenders are. I don't see your point. Do you want to take the items away? They were put on market. The money's been exchanged. That money has then been spent. Maybe the items have been transferred again. So what's fair for those people? "Oh too bad you got a sword that was from an exploit so I've stripped it of your account." And the money? And when they can't pay? And you wanna do all this in under an hour?

[QUOTE=itisjuly;37500294]Or you know, filter by transactions, filter by items. Run scan for names in the 3000 offender list. Less than an hour of work.[/QUOTE] Do you not know how an active economy works?

[QUOTE=-nesto-;37492842]72 hours is a pretty light sentence considering what they did. I was banned 2 days into a fresh sub for 30 days for saying something "racist" in WoW.[/QUOTE] Too bad, you should have been permabanned for that. [editline]1st September 2012[/editline] So far, most of those who argued that the cheaters should not be permabanned constitute more proof that they should have been permabanned. Games are always full of players who will cheat if they believe there are no serious consequences. The guys here arguing for "fairness" would cheat in second. So obvious.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;37500059]They couldn't just take them away because they had already been put on the market and sold, so trying to track them down would be incredibly hard. Then you would have to figure out how much was paid for them and refund that to the buyers. You'd also have to determine if those buyers were in anyway responsible for it. Its an incredibly difficult and infeasible concept. Second, when you break a rule and intentionally and maliciously exploit a bug in the system, you should expect to be banned for it, regardless of whether or not some might consider it petty. Second, if people judge just by the title, they'll see "Weapon exploit leads to 3000 permanent bans." and think "Well, they must have deserved it for exploiting weapons." Also, the only people who are thinking ArenaNet is acting like Bioware are people like you who don't really understand the situation.[/QUOTE] huh? its not hard if they have actual log systems.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;37480376]If you accidentally took advantage of it once then didn't do it again, that's understandable. Repeatedly abusing it is malicious.[/QUOTE] What if you use/abuse the exploit intentionally, but only about three times? Maybe to make sure you can actually reproduce it, or maybe just because some boss is really kicking your ass. That's how I'd do it anyway.

[QUOTE=lavacano;37502364]What if you use/abuse the exploit intentionally, but only about three times? Maybe to make sure you can actually reproduce it, or maybe just because some boss is really kicking your ass. That's how I'd do it anyway.[/QUOTE] [quote]If you discover an exploit in the game, do not exploit it or publicize it, but instead please notify us immediately at this new email address: exploits (at) arena (dot) net.[/quote] Its not your job to try and replicate it. You just tell them and carry on your way and they handle it..

[QUOTE=lavacano;37502364]What if you use/abuse the exploit intentionally, but only about three times? Maybe to make sure you can actually reproduce it, or maybe just because some boss is really kicking your ass. That's how I'd do it anyway.[/QUOTE] I hope you were sarcastic about the second part. That would get you banned and you would deserve it.

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;37490914]Why are you going through the same mental hoops as the people who try to justify game piracy? It's still fucking cheating because 1) you get an unfair advantage in an illegitimate way and 2) the terms and agreements say that it's cheating and 3) bugs aren't "part of the game mechanics" because they are unintentional holes in the system.[/QUOTE] I'm arguing FOR ArenaNet, not FOR the glitching assholes. I wouldn't mind if some virtual Auschwitz was made to put these cunts in, honestly. Fuck Yeah, that's what we should do. Anyone caught cheating gets put in a bizzarro version of the game world. It's the same, except instead of gaining XP, you lose that amount instead. And your ass stays there for your duration of the ban, And nothing crafted carries over

[QUOTE=lavacano;37502364]What if you use/abuse the exploit intentionally, but only about three times? Maybe to make sure you can actually reproduce it, or maybe just because some boss is really kicking your ass. That's how I'd do it anyway.[/QUOTE] Since MMO's tend to be very interconnected games, and indeed most of the systems and loops are based on that interconnectivity, if someone was exploiting in my game the policy would be a 3-5 day ban as a warning, and then a permanent ban if found exploiting the same behavior. However, this policy would only go into effect a little while after launch. Targeted bans against malicious actors at launch is fine, but I feel like with all the moving parts that goes into making an MMORPG in 2012, there is bound to be a hole at launch that people are going to use, and it's not fair to them or the company to permanently ban those people for finding said hole in such an early state of the game. I said above that I probably wouldn't have banned them, maybe I would for 3 days now that I think about it. But invoking permanent license withdrawals because you found a day-1 exploit seems wrong. [editline]1st September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;37502433]Its not your job to try and replicate it. You just tell them and carry on your way and they handle it..[/QUOTE] To be fair, people have reported exploits and have been banned, temporarily or permanently, in games like WoW and Star Wars. I wouldn't be surprised if people were afraid of telling them about it. There's no way to tell how many of the 3000 bans are "innocent", but there are a lot of people on the subreddit claiming that anyone could have used this exploit without knowing and thinking it was an innocent bug. Which is why I wouldn't ban people permanently from my game.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;37503573]...To be fair, people have reported exploits and have been banned, temporarily or permanently, in games like WoW and Star Wars...[/QUOTE] This statement of fact has a 99.7% probability factor of being imaginary.

[QUOTE=Rue Morgue;37505251]This statement of fact has a 99.7% probability factor of being imaginary.[/QUOTE] I have nothing but anecdotal evidence to back it up. If you don't believe me then I'd understand.