Alec Baldwin: "Put the oil companies out of business!"
127 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Lankist;19633676]Uhh so basically you're saying fuck collecting evidence and due process we should just throw that out and punish people before crimes happen.[/QUOTE]
No, I'm saying that you can't claim that all of corporate America is held accountable for all of their actions based on one or two cases in which corporate crime was successfully stopped. And in addition I am saying that the fact that it took so long for something as huge as the Enron scandal to be stopped puts our ability to hold large businesses accountable for their actions in serious doubt.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;19633727]I'm saying companies with such a tremendous influence on the economy and the lives of the public shouldn't be allowed to operate in secrecy. 7 million people lost their jobs recently as a result of private industry's insane risks that they agencies who were supposed to be regulating this shit allowed them to take. Any company capable of causing a disaster like that needs appropriate oversight.[/QUOTE]
Too bad. It's called the private sector for a reason. So long as they don't break any laws and pay their dues they can do whatever the fuck they want. Their rights are the same as mine and yours. When theirs are violated, so are ours. They are not second class, they are equal to us.
Welcome to Liberty. If you aren't willing to accept the risks then you can go live somewhere else. Liberty or Death, motherfucker.
This wouldn't make the whole world plunge back into recession - of course not!
[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;19633758]No, I'm saying that you can't claim that all of corporate America is held accountable for all of their actions based on one or two cases in which corporate crime was successfully stopped.[/QUOTE]
lol.
First you say that Enron proves corporations get away with everything.
Now you say it proves nothing.
You want corporate crime stopped? Go stop it. You're living in a free country, you have access to a plethora of public information and a massive public forum that is the Supreme Court. Quit bitching and whining for someone to do shit for you and do it yourself.
[QUOTE=Lankist;19633767]Too bad. It's called the private sector for a reason. So long as they don't break any laws and pay their dues they can do whatever the fuck they want. Their rights are the same as mine and yours. When theirs are violated, so are ours. They are not second class, they are equal to us.
Welcome to Liberty. If you aren't willing to accept the risks then you can go live somewhere else. Liberty or Death, motherfucker.[/QUOTE]
So you've resorted to flag-waving bullshit instead of an actual explanation why Exxon-Mobile has more of the public's best interests at heart than the elected government.
God damn I missed you.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;19633727]I'm saying companies with such a tremendous influence on the economy and the lives of the public shouldn't be allowed to operate in secrecy.[/quote]
Why not? They can't just have all their plans laid out before their rivals. That would kill competition.
[quote]7 million people lost their jobs recently as a result of private industry's insane risks that they agencies who were supposed to be regulating this shit allowed them to take.[/quote]
And you're citing the government as transparent and efficient
nice
[quote]Any company capable of causing a disaster like that needs appropriate oversight.[/QUOTE]
I read this as 'socialize big companies'. If that's what you're saying, then that's a big no-no.
[QUOTE=Lankist;19633791]lol.
First you say that Enron proves corporations get away with everything.[/QUOTE]
Used car salesman said that, I never did.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;19633817]So you've resorted to flag-waving bullshit instead of an actual explanation why Exxon-Mobile has more of the public's best interests at heart than the elected government.[/QUOTE]
They don't HAVE to have the public's best interests. They don't serve the public. They are PRIVATE industry. So long as they break no laws they can do whatever the fuck they want.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;19633817]So you've resorted to flag-waving bullshit instead of an actual explanation why Exxon-Mobile has more of the public's best interests at heart than the elected government.
God damn I missed you.[/QUOTE]
How is this 'flag-waving bullshit'?
[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;19633820]Used car salesman said that, I never did.[/QUOTE]
Until you two decide who is going to speak I am going to treat both of you as the same person. Coordinate, motherfucker. Talk to Used Car Salesman in PM's and formulate an argument.
[QUOTE=Splode a Pinga;19633818]
I read this as 'socialize big companies'. If that's what you're saying, then that's a big no-no.[/QUOTE]
Yes, that's why I pointed out twice "As awesome as it would be, it'll never happen."
[QUOTE=Lankist;19633839][B]They don't HAVE to have the public's best interests. They don't serve the public. They are PRIVATE industry.[/B] So long as they break no laws they can do whatever the fuck they want.[/QUOTE]
Emphasis quote
[QUOTE=Splode a Pinga;19633853]How is this 'flag-waving bullshit'?[/QUOTE]
It isn't. I burn flags because I love my country. Dissent is very important, and Used Car Salesman is expressing himself within his right just as I am to rebuke his claims. I was simply remarking on the fact that people no longer understand the meaning behind the Liberty or Death mentality that our entire system of government is based upon. It is risky and dangerous and untrustworthy, because that's the only way to achieve some semblance of freedom in a modern nation.
God.
How do you go from
[img]http://alec.helenheart.com/gallery/beetlejuice/16.jpg[/img]
to
[img]http://www.newsrealblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/alecbaldwin-200x300.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Lankist;19633856]Until you two decide who is going to speak I am going to treat both of you as the same person. Coordinate, motherfucker. Talk to Used Car Salesman in PM's and formulate an argument.[/QUOTE]
God, I missed you.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;19633865]Yes, that's why I pointed out twice "As awesome as it would be, it'll never happen."[/QUOTE]
So you want to give the government further control of our resources?
And take away private businesses from those who own them?
Damn, man. This isn't the land of 'make something monstrously huge then give it to the fed' land.
[editline]06:42PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lankist;19633880]It isn't. I burn flags because I love my country. Dissent is very important, and Used Car Salesman is expressing himself within his right just as I am to rebuke his claims. I was simply remarking on the fact that people no longer understand the meaning behind the Liberty or Death mentality that our entire system of government is based upon. It is risky and dangerous and untrustworthy, because that's the only way to achieve some semblance of freedom in a modern nation.[/QUOTE]
It was a rhetorical question, but I appreciate the response.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;19633892]God, I missed you.[/QUOTE]
Lankist is gonna teach some bitches how to build a case tonight.
[QUOTE=Lankist;19633767]Too bad. It's called the private sector for a reason. So long as they don't break any laws and pay their dues they can do whatever the fuck they want. [/QUOTE]
That's what we're talking about though. Whether or not large businesses and their managers are able to get away with breaking the law more than regular citizens
It seems sorta silly that you have such little confidence in the government's ability to do anything well and are so vehement about it being corrupt to it's very core, but the concept that, just perhaps, those with a lot of money are able to manipulate our government to get out of trouble strikes you as alien and offensive.
[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;19633959]That's what we're talking about though. Whether or not large businesses and their managers are able to get away with breaking the law more than regular citizens
It seems sorta silly that you have such little confidence in the government's ability to do anything well and are so vehement about it being corrupt to it's very core, but the concept that, just perhaps, those with a lot of money are able to manipulate our government to get out of trouble strikes you as alien and offensive.[/QUOTE]
As terrible as it is, and as much as I do agree with Lanklist on this, The fact these people are as rich as they are tends to alleviate them of crimes for some time. Yeah, they eventually get caught, but they don't get treated as roughly as they should.
[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;19633959]That's what we're talking about though. Whether or not large businesses and their managers are able to get away with breaking the law more than regular citizens[/QUOTE]
They aren't. We have a massive infrastructure within Federal Law Enforcement designed exclusively to root out such crimes. And while they are private companies with no transparency to the Public, the government DOES get to see what exactly they file on their taxes, which is both a major deterrent and piece of evidence. Bad things happen and corruption takes root, but just as we have police to enforce crimes that occur among civilians we have a very effective branch whose explicit job is to root out white collar crimes.
As incompetent as our government is, the one thing I can tell you they are GREAT at is being able to tell when someone is doing something wrong using only their tax records. The singlemost competent and efficient branch of our government is the IRS.
[QUOTE=Lankist;19634021]They aren't. We have a massive infrastructure within Federal Law Enforcement designed exclusively to root out such crimes. And while they are private companies with no transparency to the Public, the government DOES get to see what exactly they file on their taxes, which is both a major deterrent and piece of evidence. Bad things happen and corruption takes root, but just as we have police to enforce crimes that occur among civilians we have a very effective branch whose explicit job is to root out white collar crimes.
As incompetent as our government is, the one thing I can tell you they are GREAT at is being able to tell when someone is doing something wrong using only their tax records. The singlemost competent and efficient branch of our government is the IRS.[/QUOTE]
iirc tax fraud is actually a pretty common crime. also there's the whole "offshore banking" thing that seems to be all the rage
I mean, case in point, Enron was able to get away with everything they were doing for several years before they got caught. Was the IRS just taking it's time?
[QUOTE=Lankist;19634021]They aren't. We have a massive infrastructure within Federal Law Enforcement designed exclusively to root out such crimes. And while they are private companies with no transparency to the Public, the government DOES get to see what exactly they file on their taxes, which is both a major deterrent and piece of evidence. Bad things happen and corruption takes root, but just as we have police to enforce crimes that occur among civilians we have a very effective branch whose explicit job is to root out white collar crimes.
As incompetent as our government is, the one thing I can tell you they are GREAT at is being able to tell when someone is doing something wrong using only their tax records. The singlemost competent and efficient branch of our government is the IRS.[/QUOTE]
I believe you are referring to the most feared weapon that the government possesses.
[highlight][B][U][I]THE AUDIT.[/I][/U][/B][/highlight]
[QUOTE=Splode a Pinga;19634066]I believe you are referring to the most feared weapon that the government possesses.
[highlight][B][U][I]THE AUDIT.[/I][/U][/B][/highlight][/QUOTE]
pretty sure the hydrogen bomb is higher up on that list bub
[QUOTE=Lankist;19634021]They aren't. We have a massive infrastructure within Federal Law Enforcement designed exclusively to root out such crimes. And while they are private companies with no transparency to the Public, the government DOES get to see what exactly they file on their taxes, which is both a major deterrent and piece of evidence. Bad things happen and corruption takes root, but just as we have police to enforce crimes that occur among civilians we have a very effective branch whose explicit job is to root out white collar crimes.
As incompetent as our government is, the one thing I can tell you they are GREAT at is being able to tell when someone is doing something wrong using only their tax records. The singlemost competent and efficient branch of our government is the IRS.[/QUOTE]
It's pretty pathetic when the only thing a government is good at is forcibly taking people's money. And then they squander it on stupid shit.
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;19634111]It's pretty pathetic when the only thing a government is good at is forcibly taking people's money. And then they squander it on stupid shit.[/QUOTE]
we're pretty good at invading foreign countries too
[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;19634095]pretty sure the hydrogen bomb is higher up on that list bub[/QUOTE]
Right below the audit.
[editline]06:59PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;19634053]iirc tax fraud is actually a pretty common crime. also there's the whole "offshore banking" thing that seems to be all the rage
I mean, case in point, Enron was able to get away with everything they were doing for several years before they got caught. Was the IRS just taking it's time?[/QUOTE]
You watch too many movies. There's healthy suspicion and then there's paranoia.
[editline]07:00PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;19634148]we're pretty good at invading foreign countries too[/QUOTE]
Not really.
[QUOTE=Lankist;19634210]
You watch too many movies. There's healthy suspicion and then there's paranoia.
[/QUOTE]
damn, why hadn't I thought of that? Instead of engaging in debate with your opponent, just dismiss their ideas with a wave of your hand. It's brilliant.
[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;19634268]damn, why hadn't I thought of that? Instead of debating with your opponent, dismiss their ideas as crazy![/QUOTE]
The idea that we should violate basic constitutional rights and defy the entire system of warrant based on the notion that corporate leaders may have offshore banks IS crazy.
[QUOTE=Lankist;19634294]The idea that we should violate basic constitutional rights and defy the entire system of warrant based on the notion that corporate leaders may have offshore banks IS crazy.[/QUOTE]
thanks for misinterpreting my point again, that never gets old
I'm just trying show you how your characterization of the IRS as unbeatable is wrong, based on the fact that Enron's fraud went on for several years before being noticed. Apparently it is possible to get away with it.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;19632229]They can do things without the morally bankrupt, blatant exploitation that has become so commonplace in the American private sector.[/QUOTE]
My stepfather happened to be a marine. One of the more frequent ways that a female officer would gain a promotion was bending over and getting nailed by a superior officer.
Trust me, disgusting corruption is in every aspect of modern society.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.