• Suicide Squad's Cara Delevingne: 'Superhero Movies Are Totally Sexist'
    289 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;48069780]You do realize that the bulges/half naked/completely naked superhero guys are NOT sexualized, right? That's because 75>% of the people who make these are straight men. The problem is that women in superhero comics and films are very sexualized which happens all the time. Like, for fuck sakes people, when these comics are drawn, the creator isn't thinking "my mostly straight male demographic is totally gonna be attracted to the large batman bulge I just made!"[/QUOTE] Just because the greater part of the consumer population doesn't find the sexualized character of any interest because they are straight individuals of specific gender, doesn't mean we can just ignore the fact that the Batman Bulge™ wouldn't be sexy for women. It doesn't work like that, because then I could request explanation why Barbie's Ken is a perfect husband/boyfriend/fucktoy, instead of a real human being. Now, in this case, at least Barbie line has managed to fuck up representation of both genders, so it doesn't count I guess? Finally, is the blame with the producers, who simply know their audience or with consumers, who just want something that well, they want?
[QUOTE=CapellanCitizen;48069412]A comic I've seen that I feel explains the argument better than I can: [t]http://www.shortpacked.com/comics/2011-12-02-sexy.png[/t][/QUOTE] [t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21791801/1435473415041.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE=gufu;48069797]See, it's a good point, but it's equally lost because not all men want to be huge buff dudes and some women do in fact want to be sexy and revealing. You can say that it's based upon number, and that more dudes want to be buff musclecrabs than there are women who want to be all-boobs cancerballs. But both are a case of culture focus, where both of those problems are only inherently problematic if they are not proportionate to the people who consume the product. There is a problem, and it is shown because most of the comic consumers, are indisputably male, so giant boobs sell better. But in this case, the change for the better is really something that has to be done by both consumers and producers, since producers are not going to create something that is not going to sell, and consumers are not going to get something that they don't enjoy. Hell, to throw in personal experience, I tend to dislike muscled as hell Batman from general series, but the Batman Forever iteration is great, because much like this comic, it's based around dexterous Batman, rather than punchman with cape and tights. It's far too easy to generalize, but I haven't really seen anyone pick out specific problems too well, without falling down to Cherry Picking. Nothing is ever simpler, and the discussion is worth continuing just for the hope of finding the actual damn problem.[/QUOTE] Comics are getting much, much better with appealing to a wider audience than the straight white male standard. Comics like Saga, Rat Queens, Captain Marvel and Ms. Marvel have all got great examples of strong female protagonists that don't fall victim to the normal comic book focus on the male gaze.
[QUOTE=CapellanCitizen;48069412]A comic I've seen that I feel explains the argument better than I can: [t]http://www.shortpacked.com/comics/2011-12-02-sexy.png[/t][/QUOTE] This is the better version of the comic. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/0Nbaq5D.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=CapellanCitizen;48069412]A comic I've seen that I feel explains the argument better than I can: [t]http://www.shortpacked.com/comics/2011-12-02-sexy.png[/t][/QUOTE] Even though it completely falls apart when you remember the writer's a man trying to speak for women
Superhero comics are not sexist. They just show off people who are better than we readers ever will be. Sure, some version of Wonderwoman might wear a bikini, but there's no version of me ever being as strong, handsome, wealthy, and sexy as Batman. Heck, I'll never even be as good as Spiderman cause he has casual good looks, women, swings across Manhattan, and is a hero. [I]And he's supposed to be relatable.[/I]
I don't even think that superheroines wearing revealing outfits is sexist by itself. They are (or were) designed to appeal to a male audience, just like some other things are made to appeal to women. You can argue that superhero movies/comics shouldn't cater to men any more but that's not a sexism issue imo.
[QUOTE=CapellanCitizen;48069412]A comic I've seen that I feel explains the argument better than I can: [t]http://www.shortpacked.com/comics/2011-12-02-sexy.png[/t][/QUOTE] "[I]I[/I] don't find buff guys attractive, therefore no female ever does"
Why is sexualizing characters bad in the first place?
[QUOTE=CapellanCitizen;48069412]A comic I've seen that I feel explains the argument better than I can: [t]http://www.shortpacked.com/comics/2011-12-02-sexy.png[/t][/QUOTE] They actually did that to batman. The show is great but it got canned. [img]http://scifimonkeys.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/beware-the-batman-toonami.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48070166]Why is sexualizing characters bad in the first place?[/QUOTE] No one in the history of humanity has ever liked sex. Ever.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48070166]Why is sexualizing characters bad in the first place?[/QUOTE] The problem comes with the priority of sexualization: Was the character made as a good character with good looks, or just tits on legs for the sake of jerking off. In the later example, there are just more Female characters that could fit this role in the argument, than male characters. However, unlike, for example, in Video Games, the character may change from author to author, and artist to artist. So, one iteration of Wonder Woman could be deep and generally interesting character. In another, she's just there to add a female to the team, or just to get the creator's dominance fetish going.
[QUOTE=Llamalord;48068687]I'm so sick of these uninformed actors using feminist issues to expand their fame. Most super heros are literally sterotypes, just look at Captain America who is the perfect image of a American solider during wartime.[/QUOTE] This is just a small excerpt from a larger interview though, I think it's more of a passing remark than a statement to expand her fame. It's Yahoo that have dedicated an article to for the sake of causing controversy.
[quote]Female superheroes are normally naked or in bikinis. No-one would be able to fight like that. Wonder Woman, how the hell does she fight? She would be dead in a minute.[/quote] How is it that I've never read a single Wonder Woman comic in my life and yet I know how wrong she is about this? [editline]28th June 2015[/editline] Yes, superheroine costumes and the way they're portrayed are an issue at times but can you at least [I]try[/I] to sound like you know more than jack shit?
What I find funny about the issue of sexism in superhero related media is people who claim women don't find well built Batman or Superman sexy as fuck. Or lean fit Spiderman. Hell I personally know 3 women who openly admit they find Batman's tight suit and muscular silhouette hot as fuck. I'm pretty sure there's a whole lot more of women like that in this world. Not to even mention all the women drooling over Thor from Avengers movies. No one complains about Batman being buff and handsome but the very moment a female character shows a bit more sex appeal or skin it all goes to shit.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48070976]What I find funny about the issue of sexism in superhero related media is people who claim women don't find well built Batman or Superman sexy as fuck. Or lean fit Spiderman. Hell I personally know 3 women who openly admit they find Batman's tight suit and muscular silhouette hot as fuck. I'm pretty sure there's a whole lot more of women like that in this world. Not to even mention all the women drooling over Thor from Avengers movies. No one complains about Batman being buff and handsome but the very moment a female character shows a bit more sex appeal or skin it all goes to shit.[/QUOTE] If the actor has a muscular body, you are guaranteed to have a scene where he walks around shirtless for no good reason.
[QUOTE=Blooper Reel;48069965]Even though it completely falls apart when you remember the writer's a man trying to speak for women[/QUOTE] It absolutely is, but I linked it because of it's explanation of the argument over that. [sp]Like, Willis can be a weirdo, but I wouldn't have seen the comic if there wasn't someone who agreed with it[/sp]
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;48070921]How is it that I've never read a single Wonder Woman comic in my life and yet I know how wrong she is about this? [editline]28th June 2015[/editline] Yes, superheroine costumes and the way they're portrayed are an issue at times but can you at least [I]try[/I] to sound like you know more than jack shit?[/QUOTE] Maybe she means the Wonder Woman outfit in the new movie? Because it does look a little skimpy and impractical, what with the boob plate and crotch skirt thing and high heels. [THUMB]http://www.cinemablend.com/images/news/42732/_1406918434.jpg[/THUMB]
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;48070921]How is it that I've never read a single Wonder Woman comic in my life and yet I know how wrong she is about this? [editline]28th June 2015[/editline] Yes, superheroine costumes and the way they're portrayed are an issue at times but can you at least [I]try[/I] to sound like you know more than jack shit?[/QUOTE] I find it hilarious that some people are legitimately only pissed off at costumes when they specifically show skin. Super-tight suit that's literally drawn as a naked body and then painted over ? Totally fine. Same skin-tight suit has a hole where you can see cleavage/legs/arms/an ankle ? Unacceptable.
[QUOTE=ScumBunny;48071129]Maybe she means the Wonder Woman outfit in the new movie? Because it does look a little skimpy and impractical, what with the boob plate and crotch skirt thing and high heels. [THUMB]http://www.cinemablend.com/images/news/42732/_1406918434.jpg[/THUMB][/QUOTE] The part that pisses me off isn't that. Everyone has their own opinions and while I don't mind the suit, I can see why other people do. No, my ire is here. [quote]Wonder Woman, how the hell does she fight? She would be dead in a minute.[/quote] Does she realize that Wonder Woman is pretty much a demigod and, if I remember correctly, borderline invulnerable? A gun isn't going to hurt her all that much, if anything.
[QUOTE=CapellanCitizen;48069412]A comic I've seen that I feel explains the argument better than I can: [t]http://www.shortpacked.com/comics/2011-12-02-sexy.png[/t][/QUOTE] [t]http://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1391/35/1391357177734.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE=ScumBunny;48071129]Maybe she means the Wonder Woman outfit in the new movie? Because it does look a little skimpy and impractical, what with the boob plate and crotch skirt thing and high heels. [THUMB]http://www.cinemablend.com/images/news/42732/_1406918434.jpg[/THUMB][/QUOTE] That's hardly the worst interpretation of Wonder Woman's costume anyway. The skirt reminds me of Hoplite armor, which definitely something I can vibe with. I have a whole host of other issues with their casting choice for Diana though, but that's irrelevant.
What's funny is from all I've seen of suicide squad it looks as if WB and DC were making another batman movie in the 90s rife with cliches The new justice league animated movie they're making doesn't do that though and its totally by and in the style of the guy who did batman the animated series
[QUOTE=Annoyed Grunt;48071292][t]http://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1391/35/1391357177734.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] those novels are pretty much straight pornographic. they're erotica. they're not equivalent whatsoever to comic books or videogames or movies which are not designed specifically to arouse you sexually, but simply entertain you.
[QUOTE=maxumym;48069830][t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21791801/1435473415041.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Annoyed Grunt;48071292][t]http://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1391/35/1391357177734.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] False dichotomy. A few cherrypicked examples of male sexualization doesn't disprove the fact that women are systematically sexualized in media & elsewhere. And if your point was to say, "but men are sexualized [I]too![/I]", yeah so what? "Men are sexualized so women should be able to handle it" isn't a valid argument.
[QUOTE=demoguy08;48071656]And if your point was to say, "but men are sexualized [I]too![/I]", yeah so what? "Men are sexualized so women should be able to handle it" isn't a valid argument.[/QUOTE] The argument was [b]literally[/b] that men aren't sexualized. Don't change the fucking argument. Since you like to toss out fallacy names, that's called "moving the fucking goal posts."
[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;48069780]You do realize that the bulges/half naked/completely naked superhero guys are NOT sexualized, right? That's because 75>% of the people who make these are straight men. The problem is that women in superhero comics and films are very sexualized which happens all the time. [editline]28th June 2015[/editline] Like, for fuck sakes people, when these comics are drawn, the creator isn't thinking "my mostly straight male demographic is totally gonna be attracted to the large batman bulge I just made!"[/QUOTE] You know what. Any time someone says this. I'm just gonna say [B]Magic Mike.[/B]
[QUOTE=Paramud;48071703]The argument was [b]literally[/b] that men aren't sexualized. Don't change the fucking argument. Since you like to toss out fallacy names, that's called "moving the fucking goal posts."[/QUOTE] Ah you are correct, this is indeed the point of the comic. Sorry! The first point still stands.
[QUOTE=demoguy08;48071656]False dichotomy. A few cherrypicked examples of male sexualization doesn't disprove the fact that women are systematically sexualized in media & elsewhere. And if your point was to say, "but men are sexualized [I]too![/I]", yeah so what? "Men are sexualized so women should be able to handle it" isn't a valid argument.[/QUOTE] Are men that parade around in Skin tight suits that show rippling muscles and bulges not sexualized?
[QUOTE=demoguy08;48071656]False dichotomy. A few cherrypicked examples of male sexualization doesn't disprove the fact that women are systematically sexualized in media & elsewhere. And if your point was to say, "but men are sexualized [I]too![/I]", yeah so what? "Men are sexualized so women should be able to handle it" isn't a valid argument.[/QUOTE] My argument is basically: yes women are depicted more sexually than guys but why is that sexist?
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