Suicide Squad's Cara Delevingne: 'Superhero Movies Are Totally Sexist'
289 replies, posted
Can i just mention that
[quote]Female superheroes are normally naked or in bikinis.[/quote]
This is pretty much completely wrong, unless she means the skin tight spandex thats almost universal to all superheros be it man, woman, or a man shaped rock monster?
Lets list examples of some big name superhoroines.
[url=http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/50639/3637539-invisible+woman.png]Sue Storm.[/url]
[url=http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120325155331/marveldatabase/images/e/e9/Goddess_Phoenix_I.jpg]Jean Grey. [/url]
[url=http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130408003827/marveldatabase/images/7/79/Rogue_(Anna_Marie)_(Earth-12131)_001.png]Rogue.[/url]
[url=http://www.writeups.org/img/inset/Storm_h622.jpg]Storm.[/url]
[url=http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/0/170/76513-88307-jubilee.jpg]Jubilee. [/url]
[url=http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070814082157/marveldatabase/images/b/b4/New_Avengers_Vol_1_15_Textless.jpg]Spider-Woman.[/url]
[url=http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130121073154/powerlisting/images/e/ed/Ultimate_Spider-Woman.png]Spider-Woman.[/url]
[url=http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/60273/4558704-0295075594-tumbl.png]Spider-Woman.[/url]
[url=https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2e/Spider-girl-continues.jpg]Spider-Girl. [/url]
[url=https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/24/Batwoman.png]Bat Woman.[/url]
[url=http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/batman/images/2/2e/987203-birds_of_prey_black_canary_batgirl_pg08.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110829190148]Batgirl. [/url]
[url=http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/26577/494358-76554_142145_batgirl_super.jpg]Batgirl.[/url]
[url=https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b1/Stephanie_Brown_as_Batgirl.jpg]Batgirl. [/url]
And then others who are a little skimpier but nowhere near naked or in a bikini.
[url=https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/92/d4/63/92d46338eaff46317686ce3d21dc9109.jpg]Psylocke. [/url]
[url=https://rocketminx.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/catwoman.png]Catwoman.[/url]
[url=http://www.writeups.org/img/fiche/2715n.jpg]Black Cat. [/url]
[url=http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090729015805/marvel_dc/images/f/f3/Raven_003.jpg]Raven.[/url]
You could go on and on with this.
Like the only one i can think of who could remotely fit that description is [url=http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130131055242/marvel_dc/images/d/d3/Starfire_007.jpg]Starfire[/url], and she's been like that since the [url=https://www.hyperborea.org/flash/bigimages/starfire.jpg]80's.[/url]
[editline]28th June 2015[/editline]
Actually, how has this thread gone on this long without mentioning the Marvel Swimsuit Specials?
Oh jesus the swimsuit specials.
[t]http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--_eE1qBAS--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/17lerxtyhloohjpg.jpg[/t]
[t]http://gay-nerds.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/17lery7roznbcjpg.jpg?9c06ae[/t]
[t]http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--aGtqd1XS--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/17lerxvxgx5yojpg.jpg[/t]
[t]http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/comicsalliance.com/files/2009/11/swimsuitpunisher.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;48069780]You do realize that the bulges/half naked/completely naked superhero guys are NOT sexualized, right? That's because 75>% of the people who make these are straight men.
The problem is that women in superhero comics and films are very sexualized which happens all the time.
[editline]28th June 2015[/editline]
Like, for fuck sakes people, when these comics are drawn, the creator isn't thinking "my mostly straight male demographic is totally gonna be attracted to the large batman bulge I just made!"[/QUOTE]
The creator also isnt thinking. "My mostly straight male demographic is totally gonna be all over this superheroes tits" its probably more "Im gonna draw my superherione to look good"
Imagine thinking straight men can't draw sexualized men. Like damn. What's next, cis male authors should not write books with female characters?
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48073298]Imagine thinking straight men can't draw sexualized men. Like damn. [/QUOTE]
Whenever anyone claims this, just link them some good ol' JoJo.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;48073318]Whenever anyone claims this, just link them some good ol' JoJo.[/QUOTE]According to wiki Jojo character designer is Takako Shimizu, who's a woman.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;48072864]Please tell me which woman is more capable of punching a bad guy in the face
[IMG]http://puu.sh/iG1lR/c7bb520047.jpg[/IMG]
[editline]28th June 2015[/editline]
No this is categorically wrong. Snake has the best ass.[/QUOTE]
is your point that if you take a picture of a woman posing for modeling and a picture of a woman doing her athletic job(I'm sure there's a better word for this) that there is a difference in intent and purpose behind each photo making your analogy/comparison here invalid?
If you had both women in the same pose, you'd have more of a point, but still, not much of a point at all.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48073326]According to wiki Jojo character designer is Takako Shimizu, who's a woman.[/QUOTE]
What?
No, its Hirohiko Araki.
She did the versions for the anime, Hirohiko Araki is the guy who actually does the manga, designs everyone, writes it, etc.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;48073374]What?
No, its Hirohiko Araki.
She did the versions for the anime, Hirohiko Araki is the guy who actually does the manga, designs everyone, writes it, etc.[/QUOTE]
Didn't know that. I don't read or watch Jojo as it makes me feel insecure which causes me to starve myself. I want Jojo banned, it proposes unrealistic standards.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;48072919]All female characters must represent all women everywhere. Therefore it's impossible to create a character to live up to impossible expectations. Remember the controversy where people were upset that Batgirl was portrayed as weak and helpless? People fucking went nuts with bullshit arguments like "You'd never see Batman in a situation like that", to which people had to point out that Batman had been in that [i]exact[/i] situation before and no one gave a fuck.[/QUOTE]
Because they were wrong.
Batman has never emotionally broken down solely because of his own helplessness. He's been put in helpless situations before, he's broken down because of the plight of OTHERS before, but neither he nor Dick Grayson nor pretty much any male superhero that isn't a child has been driven to tears from their own helplessness that didn't involve someone else's plight or suffering. That's considered a sign of weakness. Batgirl doing that is a sign that she isn't as strong as Batman.
There are plenty of arguments you can make about the validity of that cover but this isn't one of them.
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;48073538]Because they were wrong.
Batman has never emotionally broken down solely because of his own helplessness. He's been put in helpless situations before, he's broken down because of the plight of OTHERS before, but neither he nor Dick Grayson nor pretty much any male superhero that isn't a child has been driven to tears from their own helplessness that didn't involve someone else's plight or suffering. That's considered a sign of weakness. Batgirl doing that is a sign that she isn't as strong as Batman.
There are plenty of arguments you can make about the validity of that cover but this isn't one of them.[/QUOTE]
Context is kind of important with that, too.
Killing Joke, etc.
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;48073538]Because they were wrong.
[B]Batman has never emotionally broken down solely because of his own helplessness.[/B] He's been put in helpless situations before, he's broken down because of the plight of OTHERS before, but neither he nor Dick Grayson nor pretty much any male superhero that isn't a child has been driven to tears from their own helplessness that didn't involve someone else's plight or suffering. That's considered a sign of weakness. Batgirl doing that is a sign that she isn't as strong as Batman.
There are plenty of arguments you can make about the validity of that cover but this isn't one of them.[/QUOTE]
Dude what
[img]http://i.imgur.com/tkaMg1j.png[/img]
Batman's entire shtick is that he's devastated about not being able to save his parents.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;48071894]Marv is ugly as sin [sp]but still fucks like a beast apparently[/sp][/QUOTE]
Marv's face is asymmetrical, the rest of him is built a like a literal brick shithouse, he's so buff getting dragged by car gives him a [i]rash.[/i]
[QUOTE=27X;48073620]Marv's face is asymmetrical, the rest of him is built a like a literal brick shithouse, he's so buff getting dragged by car gives him a [i]rash.[/i][/QUOTE]
Asymmetrical isn't the word, he's just described to be incredibly fucking ugly, to the point he scares most people away from him.
[sp]And he accepts to sign a false confession and gets sentenced to death to keep his mom safe[/sp]
[QUOTE=Lambeth;48072901]The notion that something can't be criticized because it's not real is really weird.[/QUOTE]
Said no one ever.
See when you do shit like this, not only does it invalidate your premise here, it starts to create a trend where people [i]generally[/i] just stick you in the shit post category regardless of the content or context of your message.
Maybe just that one time at band camp, you should consider before pressing the reply button.
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;48073538]Because they were wrong.
Batman has never emotionally broken down solely because of his own helplessness. He's been put in helpless situations before, he's broken down because of the plight of OTHERS before, but neither he nor Dick Grayson nor pretty much any male superhero that isn't a child has been driven to tears from their own helplessness that didn't involve someone else's plight or suffering. That's considered a sign of weakness. Batgirl doing that is a sign that she isn't as strong as Batman.
There are plenty of arguments you can make about the validity of that cover but this isn't one of them.[/QUOTE]
I think the issue here is that you consider crying is a sign of weakness. Countless people criticise male heroes for acting like tough guys by not displaying any emotion, but when a female hero shows that she's a human being then it's a bad thing somehow?
[QUOTE=_Axel;48073878]I think the issue here is that you consider crying is a sign of weakness. Countless people criticise male heroes for acting like tough guys by not displaying any emotion, but when a female hero shows that she's a human being then it's a bad thing somehow?[/QUOTE]
It's not crying that makes it a weakness, it's what causes the crying. For tough action heroes, things like the plight of others or loss are considered acceptable things to cry about. But you'll never see a "tough" action hero crying about being helpless at the hands of a villain. Obviously any normal human would, but we're not talking about normal humans.
[editline]28th June 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;48073608]Dude what
[img]http://i.imgur.com/tkaMg1j.png[/img]
Batman's entire shtick is that he's devastated about not being able to save his parents.[/QUOTE]
Again, he's crying over loss, not his own helplessness at the hands of an enemy. There are things that "tough" characters are allowed to cry about without looking "weak".
Again, we're not talking about reality, we're talking about the mindset of an action hero writer/reader.
Maybe not cry directly (other than the batman picture I've linked) but there's been plenty of superheroes brooding over fear of their own failure or being scared that they can't overcome their own condition. Shitttons of modern superman comics hinge entirely on the fact Superman is conflicted about his own nature, Batman's sanity and willpower are constantly questioned, the Punisher's motivated by petty revenge and grief (he also often questions his own motives and whether or not he can really accomplish anything, which is a sign of weakness against the villains he fights), Spiderman's literal existence is due to an emotional breakdown, so on and so forth.
You're the one who's incredibly close minded if you think the only sign of weakness is to cry.
As far for the batman picture, he [I]is[/I] breaking down in front of his villain. Batman's enemies may have certain names and faces but his true enemy is crime as a whole, and this picture is him not being able to cope with his prime failure to fight crime when it mattered the most. And if you want to really put a face onto the villain you keep talking about, scarecrow has managed to bring Batman down several times and although he's always persevered through iron will there were times where the bat was nearly broken by his own fears and inner conflicts. Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Rises notably focuses on this aspect : [sp]his perpetual fight against the Joker was a lose-lose situation for him; by letting him live he caused more death and suffering and thus lost the fight, and by killing him he lost the fight because Joker got what he wanted and forced Batman to break his prime directive[/sp]
Batman's a perfect example on how wrong you are about male heroes breaking apart. Because they don't specifically tear up doesn't mean they don't have massive personal issues frequently in comic books.
[quote]You're the one who's incredibly close minded if you think the only sign of weakness is to cry.[/quote]
You're missing the entire point.
I'm not against the alt cover, I'm just saying that particular argument of "Batman / [other tough superhero] has been in that situation too" is wrong.
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;48073898]It's not crying that makes it a weakness, it's what causes the crying. For tough action heroes, things like the plight of others or loss are considered acceptable things to cry about. But you'll never see a "tough" action hero crying about being helpless at the hands of a villain. Obviously any normal human would, but we're not talking about normal humans.
[editline]28th June 2015[/editline]
Again, he's crying over loss, not his own helplessness at the hands of an enemy. There are things that "tough" characters are allowed to cry about without looking "weak".
Again, we're not talking about reality, we're talking about the mindset of an action hero writer/reader.[/QUOTE]
I think literally crying is a shallow way to measure a character "emotionally breaking down."
There are countless cases of superheroes retiring or trying to run away or having personal life issues due to feeling helpless or scared or whatever other reason, just because they don't get a panel where they literally cry doesn't really mean anything.
If you want to see Batman break down specifically, read The Dark Knight Returns.
Your point is that you're moving the goal post around whenever someone's disproving you.
You said male heroes don't tear up. I gave you a picture of a male hero tearing up. Now you say they don't tear up over their villains winning. I give you a bunch of situations where male heroes tear up or break apart over their villains winning. You say I missed the point.
Also in the MCU, Thor says he cried over Loki's brief disappearance after the first Thor movie (and before the first Avengers movie). It's not outright paper comics universe but it's worth mentioning.
[QUOTE=Pretty Obscure;48073967]I think literally crying is a shallow way to measure a character "emotionally breaking down."
There are countless cases of superheroes retiring or trying to run away or having personal life issues due to feeling helpless or scared or whatever other reason, just because they don't get a panel where they literally cry doesn't really mean anything.
If you want to see Batman break down specifically, read The Dark Knight Returns.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but how many do it because they feel helpless or scared over their own safety? That's the difference I'm trying to express.
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;48073943]You're missing the entire point.
I'm not against the alt cover, I'm just saying that particular argument of "Batman / [other tough superhero] has been in that situation too" is wrong.[/QUOTE]
It's not wrong, it's true. They have been.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;48073974]Your point is that you're moving the goal post around whenever someone's disproving you.
You said male heroes don't tear up. I gave you a picture of a male hero tearing up. Now you say they don't tear up over their villains winning. I give you a bunch of situations where male heroes tear up or break apart over their villains winning. You say I missed the point.
Also in the MCU, Thor says he cried over Loki's brief disappearance after the first Thor movie (and before the first Avengers movie). It's not outright paper comics universe but it's worth mentioning.[/QUOTE]
I'm not moving any goal posts, you're ignoring goal posts that existed in the first place.
Again, I said from the very beginning that crying over loss, or crying over the plight of others is a completely different scenario.
Male superheroes and female superheroes are shown coping with anxiety and failure different, who cares, that doesn't make them unequal or sexist.
Batman is conflicted over whether or not to kill and is borderline psychotic. Superman needs to regularly isolate himself from the world to not breakdown. Tony Stark is a rampaging alcoholic who I'm pretty sure had a couple emotional breakdowns over the years. Spiderman is permanently terrified of his family getting killed over his crime fighter occupation. Bruce Banner is suicidal and depressed because everyone he loves and cares about is under constant threat of him killing them horribly (he's pretty much his own villain). The list goes on.
Oh and, maybe you just haven't realized, but human beings don't cry over themselves very often, that's actually pretty damn rare, because that's not how emotions work. People cry over other people.
Batgirl cries, no one says anything negative about her.
If Batman cried in hands of Joker he'd get called a pussy bitch.
Male superheroes don't cry because people are very judgmental of men crying.
It can also be argued that when super heroes cry over loss or the plight of others after a super villain has caused this pain they're being defeated by their enemy because that's what they wanted to achieve.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;48073988]Male superheroes and female superheroes are shown coping with anxiety and failure different, who cares, that doesn't make them unequal or sexist.[/QUOTE]
Men and women cope differently in most cases. What we've got the remember is really the character, not the gender politics we force upon the character e.g if a stoic male hero is stoic in the face of adversity and the quippy female heroine makes jokes attempting to hide cracks in her facade it's got nothing to do with the gender of the hero/heroine, it's about their characters. I wouldn't expect Batman to act the same as Batgirl if he was in a certain death situation because he's not Batgirl and Batgirl isn't Batman either.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;48073988]Male superheroes and female superheroes are shown coping with anxiety and failure different, who cares, that doesn't make them unequal or sexist.
Batman is conflicted over whether or not to kill and is borderline psychotic. Superman needs to regularly isolate himself from the world to not breakdown. Tony Stark is a rampaging alcoholic who I'm pretty sure had a couple emotional breakdowns over the years. Spiderman is permanently terrified of his family getting killed over his crime fighter occupation. Bruce Banner is suicidal and depressed because everyone he loves and cares about is under constant threat of him killing them horribly (he's pretty much his own villain). The list goes on.
Oh and, maybe you just haven't realized, but human beings don't cry over themselves very often, that's actually pretty damn rare, because that's not how emotions work. People cry over other people.[/QUOTE]
My whole point is that Batgirl crying over being helpless for her own safety is something that pretty much no other "superhero", male or female, goes through. Disregarding ones own safety is almost universal in superheroes. So when Batman cries over the loss of his parents, or cries because of someone else's suffering, that's not the same thing.
Listing a bunch of weaknesses that are completely different from what I'm talking about (fear for one's own safety) doesn't disprove my point at all.
[editline]28th June 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;48074024]It can also be argued that when super heroes cry over loss or the plight of others after a super villain has caused this pain they're being defeated by their enemy because that's what they wanted to achieve.[/QUOTE]
It can be argued that, but that's completely irrelevant to the point I'm making.
But your point is idiotic because you're setting up an extremely specific situation where the example you gave is literally the only example that can ever be found, making you the de facto winner of the argument.
You also ignored every other point from other people that crying is [B]not[/B] the only human emotion showing weakness.
It's like if I said that the only criteria for a character's strength is how hard they punched Hitler in the mouth, that'd make Captain America the immediate winner because [I]there's nobody else in the marvel continuity who's done that[/I].
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;48074073]But your point is idiotic because you're setting up an extremely specific situation where the example you gave is literally the only example that can ever be found, making you the de facto winner of the argument.[/QUOTE]
There's nothing "extremely specific" about this, it's just rare in Superhero stories. In stories that are more grounded and realistic, with characters that are more realistic, the trope of "main character is put in severe mortal danger and fears for his life and realizes shit has gotten real" is common. Superhero stories don't have time for this sort of thing because the characters are in such situations on a near constant basis, so almost every superhero never fears for their own safety, even when they're in an almost certain death situation.
Tim Drake in Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker is another example of this happening, and in that case Tim Drake is a child, and it ends his superhero career.
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