Russian tank column moves into Ukraine - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;45820876]No we care, it's just that we don't care enough to start WWIII. We like not having the world at total war again so we're not going to poke Russia to hard about the Ukraine.[/QUOTE] Unfortunately that really isn't the right attitude. If you don't threaten Russia they'll never learn they can't do this and will try it again somewhere else.

[QUOTE=download;45821750]Unfortunately that really isn't the right attitude. If you don't threaten Russia they'll never learn they can't do this and will try it again somewhere else.[/QUOTE] But they threatened Russia and didn't do anything.

[QUOTE=Aredbomb;45821454]Irrelevant. Russia is building puppet states to contain NATO and the EU, not conquering their neighbors. They require different responses.[/QUOTE] But the way it's building a puppet state is by invading and, in effect, conquering it.

putin's role model is hitler

[QUOTE=Map in a box;45821288]I might be wrong in my history but didn't Germany take over countries and people allowed it because they didn't want a war.. until everyone popped?[/QUOTE] That's why former bloc countries like Latvia and Poland are concerned.

Couldn't we just sell advanced weapons systems to the Ukrainians? I mean, I get the feeling Ukrainian soldiers equipped with better rifles, better body armour and better mechanized armour would fair better against these "rebels" than with their current equipment. An M4 is a hell of a lot more accurate than some dilapidated AK-74s.

[QUOTE=ewitwins;45822446]Couldn't we just sell advanced weapons systems to the Ukrainians? I mean, I get the feeling Ukrainian soldiers equipped with better rifles, better body armour and better mechanized armour would fair better against these "rebels" than with their current equipment. An M4 is a hell of a lot more accurate than some dilapidated AK-74s.[/QUOTE] And further bankrupt the Ukrainian government? This war is destroying their economy, and their population is in severe decline.

[QUOTE=ewitwins;45822446]Couldn't we just sell advanced weapons systems to the Ukrainians? I mean, I get the feeling Ukrainian soldiers equipped with better rifles, better body armour and better mechanized armour would fair better against these "rebels" than with their current equipment. An M4 is a hell of a lot more accurate than some dilapidated AK-74s.[/QUOTE] I imagine introducing a different weapon and ammunition would mostly prove just an extra logistical issue.

[QUOTE=ewitwins;45822446]Couldn't we just sell advanced weapons systems to the Ukrainians? I mean, I get the feeling Ukrainian soldiers equipped with better rifles, better body armour and better mechanized armour would fair better against these "rebels" than with their current equipment. An M4 is a hell of a lot more accurate than some dilapidated AK-74s.[/QUOTE] It's not that easy to use any weapon you're not familiar with. It applies even to rifles, not to mention such a complicated systems as rockets or modern armored vehicles. It takes a plenty of time to teach how to use it. That's why when someone buys these systems, a competent personnel usually comes with them to teach locals how to operate it.

[QUOTE=ewitwins;45822446]Couldn't we just sell advanced weapons systems to the Ukrainians? I mean, I get the feeling Ukrainian soldiers equipped with better rifles, better body armour and better mechanized armour would fair better against these "rebels" than with their current equipment. An M4 is a hell of a lot more accurate than some dilapidated AK-74s.[/QUOTE] They did buy better body armor and medkits but because of the corruption and the Russian spies that got put into the government from last time only half of it went through. They're also developing a new APC with Canada

[QUOTE=ewitwins;45822446]Couldn't we just [B]sell[/B] advanced weapons systems to the Ukrainians?[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://facepunch.com/fp/flags/us.png[/IMG]:quagmire:

[QUOTE=Mr.Goodcat;45820504]I knew Putin was insane, but I never pictured him this insane. I wonder how the West is going to deal with this?[/QUOTE] Serious question: What the fuck do you want us to do? When we impose sanctions, people said it wasn't enough. If you want us to invade, just say it. I'd rather know now.

[QUOTE=Pantz Master;45822756]Serious question: What the fuck do you want us to do? When we impose sanctions, people said it wasn't enough. If you want us to invade, just say it. I'd rather know now.[/QUOTE] Build bases on the border with Russia, put Americans in them.

And nothing will get done and Russia will walk all over Ukraine because NATO and the UN are useless. Seriously, this is the time where words are worth shit and action is needed because if we don't do anything we'll seem weak kneed to everyone else, and then things will just get worse. Just intervene already.

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;45822801]And nothing will get done and Russia will walk all over Ukraine because NATO and the UN are useless[/QUOTE] If they don't then they'll have to pay for their foolishness later.

[QUOTE=download;45821750]Unfortunately that really isn't the right attitude. If you don't threaten Russia they'll never learn they can't do this and will try it again somewhere else.[/QUOTE] The last time we threatened Russia it caused 5 decades of proxy wars and pointless slaughter.

Fuck this shit, i want to be out of this. :suicide:

[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;45822801]And nothing will get done and Russia will walk all over Ukraine because NATO and the UN are useless. Seriously, this is the time where words are worth shit and action is needed because if we don't do anything we'll seem weak kneed to everyone else, and then things will just get worse. Just intervene already.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure if you realize this but Russia is a huge fucking country with a huge fucking military. Russia isn't some backwater middle east country with a 60 year out of date military that the US/NATO can just roll over in a week. This is 2014, not 1939; Nuclear powers don't go to war with each other anymore. If we want to show another Nuclear power we mean business, then we start a proxy war. Theres too many lives, too much money, too much infrastructure, and too much reputation at stake to start a world war.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;45822833]I'm not sure if you realize this but Russia is a huge fucking country with a huge fucking military. Russia isn't some backwater middle east country with a 60 year out of date military that the US/NATO can just roll over in a week. This is 2014, not 1939; Nuclear powers don't go to war with each other anymore. If we want to show another Nuclear power we mean business, then we start a proxy war. Theres too many lives, too much money, too much infrastructure, and too much reputation at stake to start a world war.[/QUOTE] So what we should let Russia invade a couple of countries for fun? We should have done shit when Georgia got attacked.

[QUOTE=Ghost656;45822842]So what we should let Russia invade a couple of countries for fun?[/QUOTE] ya

[QUOTE=Ghost656;45822842]So what we should let Russia invade a couple of countries for fun?[/QUOTE] As long as it's not NATO, Israel, South Korea, or Japan, yes.

[QUOTE=Ghost656;45822842]So what we should let Russia invade a couple of countries for fun? We should have done shit when Georgia got attacked.[/QUOTE] Russia is going this because they are aware nothing can be done to stop them. They wouldn't commit to this if it wasn't clear that they will have free reign there.

[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;45822883]Russia is going this because they are aware nothing can be done to stop them. They wouldn't commit to this if it wasn't clear that they will have free reign there.[/QUOTE] Wonder how far Russia will try to go.

"Our finger has necrosis but we won't chop it off because that would hurt, so we'll let it spread" is basically what the West is doing now. Afraid of a war with Russia so they let them take Ukraine. It's like those people that don't get a tumor removed because the operation will hurt. No shit it will, doesn't mean the alternative is better. Putin wouldn't do shit if NATO/US troops were stationed near the borders, he's not that cocky yet, he will be eventually if the West only whines like a whore and writes angry letters though.

[QUOTE=Ghost656;45822842]So what we should let Russia invade a couple of countries for fun?[/quote] You honestly think we would want to try and stop them? Maybe we could beat our WWII high score of 85 million deaths, 1% of the worlds population dead or missing, almost every major European city turned to rubble, and 2 cities irradiated and barren for the next few decades. Fuck it lets see if we can break 5% or 10% of the worlds dead. Maybe Putin can beat Stalin's overall high score too! [QUOTE=Ghost656;45822842] We should have done shit when Georgia got attacked.[/QUOTE] And then what? Start another war to sweep across Europe? The Ukraine or Georgia losing a few miles of land sucks ass but you have to ask yourself what you would prefer less; potentially billions in casualties or Russia swallowing some more land.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;45823019]You honestly think we would want to try and stop them? Maybe we could beat our WWII high score of 85 million deaths, 1% of the worlds population dead or missing, almost every major European city turned to rubble, and 2 cities irradiated and barren for the next few decades. Fuck it lets see if we can break 5% or 10% of the worlds dead. Maybe Putin can beat Stalin's overall high score too! And then what? Start another war to sweep across Europe? The Ukraine or Georgia losing a few miles of land sucks ass but you have to ask yourself what you would prefer less; potentially billions in casualties or Russia swallowing some more land.[/QUOTE] There wouldn't be Billions of casualties.

[QUOTE=acds;45822959]"Our finger has necrosis but we won't chop it off because that would hurt, so we'll let it spread" is basically what the West is doing now. Afraid of a war with Russia so they let them take Ukraine. It's like those people that don't get a tumor removed because the operation will hurt. No shit it will, doesn't mean the alternative is better. Putin wouldn't do shit if NATO/US troops were stationed near the borders, he's not that cocky yet, he will be eventually if the West only whines like a whore and writes angry letters though.[/QUOTE] I know the whole "haha UN useless it just send angry letter lol" thing is pretty funny, but the economic sanctions Russia is dealing with right now are pretty severe, their economy won't last long unless they stop being dicks to the Ukraine. [editline]28th August 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=carcarcargo;45823027]There wouldn't be Billions of casualties.[/QUOTE] po·ten·tial pəˈtenCHəl/Submit adjective 1. having or showing the capacity to become or develop into something in the future. "a two-pronged campaign to woo potential customers"

The issue is that the UN can't do shit about this, because Russia is in the council, and will veto every proposal to do with Ukraine. *engage theory mode* NATO however, could help Ukraine just fine, the issue is just how it would look to the world. It's important for western Europe (and the US) to keep the moral high ground, because even a slight misstep could be a goldmine for propaganda for Russia and like-minded states. It would have to be done carefully, with all the support from the Ukrainian population. I don't think the EU could agree over something as controversial as this, that is the biggest flaw of having such a diverse union, however I would love to see a EU peace keeping force help Ukraine from getting completely taken over. How would you think Russia would react to a NATO force securing western Ukraine by the request of the Ukrainian government? Ukraine would most likely loose the eastern region, but would remain independent from Russia, at the cost of becoming dependent on EU/NATO. *disengage theory mode* Keep in mind, that all this is just pure theory, nothing of this will happen. What will happen at most, is a proxy war between NATO and Russia, with Ukraine and the rebels getting massive support in the from of weapons and supplies from their respective sides.

[QUOTE=download;45821750]Unfortunately that really isn't the right attitude. If you don't threaten Russia they'll never learn they can't do this and will try it again somewhere else.[/QUOTE] They don't care about the threats which is the problem.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;45823032]I know the whole "haha UN useless it just send angry letter lol" thing is pretty funny, but the economic sanctions Russia is dealing with right now are pretty severe, their economy won't last long unless they stop being dicks to the Ukraine. [/QUOTE] Guess how they are going to ease the increasing internal pressure.