House Has Votes to Pass Obamacare Repeal Bill, Send It to Senate
155 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;52187939]A nominal fee that can be completely waived if you were incapable of paying it versus people literally dying because they're not profitable to insure. I'll choose door A, thanks.
Of course, ideally, we would completely eradicate the health insurance industry and go to universal government healthcare.
[editline]4th May 2017[/editline]
Actually, it literally is. Ted Cruz led a committee that spearheaded the effort to eliminate a provision of the ACA geared towards offsetting the risks to insurance companies. The tanked provision resulted in participating comanies taking huge losses that would have otherwise been mitigated, thus participating insurance companies began dropping out of the marketplace. This isn't a secret, either. Cruz was openly bragging about what a great accomplishment it was during the Republican debates.[/QUOTE]
Don't misunderstand me, I am against mandatory health insurance. There is an argument to be made for universal healthcare.
[QUOTE=viper shtf;52189287]Don't misunderstand me, I am against mandatory health insurance. There is an argument to be made for universal healthcare.[/QUOTE]
How do you provide healthcare to people who can't afford it if the people who can afford it aren't required to take part in the system?
Like Machiavelli said, no unarmed prophet ever succeeded.
Fuck non-violent protests, it won't work.
I say we give an ultimatum to the politicians who are bankrolled by fossil fuels and then dispose of them IRA style when they try to fuck us again.
[video=youtube;l-L3zeCNzH8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-L3zeCNzH8[/video]
If only we had half the balls these guys had.
No fuck that shit, all that's gonna accomplish is more violence? It's not like violent revolution has historically done all that much good, peaceful reforms over time and passionate activists though
[QUOTE=Mr. Sarcastic;52189543]Like Machiavelli said, no unarmed prophet ever succeeded.
Fuck non-violent protests, it won't work.
I say we give an ultimatum to the politicians who are bankrolled by fossil fuels and then dispose of them IRA style when they try to fuck us again.
[video=youtube;l-L3zeCNzH8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-L3zeCNzH8[/video]
If only we had half the balls these guys had.[/QUOTE]
Um. Very different circumstances. A very different time.
The oppression in Ireland was much more extreme and complete. It was a foreign power exerting it's will on a people who wanted to be free and had been denied that freedom for a very long time. Vast majority of Irish people south of where the Northern Irish border is (and a significant minority north of that border) saw themselves as Irish, while the British saw us as a part of the UK only.
It's not comparable.
And what that video doesn't mention is the day those clips dramatised: [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1920)"]Bloody Sunday, 1920[/URL], where the following happened after the death of the Cario Gang:
[QUOTE]The Dublin Gaelic football team was scheduled to play the Tipperary team later the same day in Croke Park, the Gaelic Athletic Association's major football ground. Despite the general unease in Dublin as news broke of the killings, a war-weary populace continued with life. About 5,000 spectators went to Croke Park for the Tipperary match, which began thirty minutes late, at 3:15 p.m.[20]
Meanwhile, outside the park, unseen by the crowd, British security forces were approaching and preparing to raid the match. A convoy of troops drove in from the northwest, along Clonliffe Road, while a convoy of police and auxiliaries approached the park from the south or canal end. Their orders were to surround the ground, guard the exits, and search every man in the park. The authorities later stated that their intention was to announce by megaphone that all males leaving the stadium would be searched and that anyone leaving by other means would be shot. However, for some reason, shots were fired as soon as the police convoy reached the stadium, at 3:25 p.m.[21]
Some of the police later claimed that they were fired on first by IRA sentries, but this has never been proved.[22] Correspondents for the Manchester Guardian and Britain's Daily News interviewed eyewitnesses, and concluded that the "IRA sentries" were actually ticket-sellers:
It is the custom at this football ground for tickets to be sold outside the gates by recognised ticket-sellers, who would probably present the appearance of pickets, and would naturally run inside at the approach of a dozen military lorries. No man exposes himself needlessly in Ireland when a military lorry passes by.[23]
The police in the convoy's leading cars appear to have jumped out, chased these men down the passage to the Canal End gate, forced their way through the turnstiles, and started firing rapidly with rifles and revolvers. Ireland's Freeman's Journal reported that,
The spectators were startled by a volley of shots fired from inside the turnstile entrances. Armed and uniformed men were seen entering the field, and immediately after the firing broke out scenes of the wildest confusion took place. The spectators made a rush for the far side of Croke Park and shots were fired over their heads and into the crowd.[24]
The police kept shooting for about ninety seconds. Their commander, Major Mills, later admitted that his men were "excited and out of hand".[25] Some police fired into the fleeing crowd from the pitch, while others, outside the park, opened fire from the Canal Bridge at spectators who climbed over the Canal End Wall trying to escape. At the other end of the park, soldiers on Clonliffe Road were startled first by the sound of the fusillade, then by the sight of panicked people fleeing the grounds. As the spectators streamed out, an armoured car on St James Avenue fired its machine guns over the heads of the crowd, trying to halt them.[24]
By the time Major Mills got his men back under control, the police had fired 114 rounds of rifle ammunition, and an unknown amount of revolver ammunition as well, not counting 50 rounds fired from the machine guns in the armoured car outside the Park.[26] Seven people had been shot to death, and five more had been fatally wounded; another two people had been trampled to death in the stampede. The dead included Jeannie Boyle, who had gone to the match with her fiancé and was due to be married five days later, and two boys aged 10 and 11. Two football players, Michael Hogan and Jim Egan, had been shot; Hogan was killed, but Egan survived, along with dozens of other wounded and injured. The police raiding party suffered no casualties.[27]
Once the firing stopped, the security forces searched the remaining men in the crowd before letting them go. The military raiding party recovered one revolver: a local householder testified that a fleeing spectator had thrown it away in his garden. Once the grounds were cleared, the park was searched for arms, but, according to Major Mills, none were found.[28][/QUOTE]
You don't want to go down the path of violent revolution - not without expecting horrible consequences.
Particularly when Michael Collins later died fighting in a needless civil war that robbed us of many of our great potential leaders during that time, and lead our country to be an oppressive, conservative-Christian state of little opportunity.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;52188239]A reminder also that congress gets state subsidized health care. If the republicans are so keen on stripping it from everyone else, they should practice what they preach.[/QUOTE]
I wonder how many of the #MAGA dumbfucks celebrating this on Twitter know that.
Whenever people say "The democrats and republicans are the same assholes, same thing etc." remind them of this
I will literally never vote Republican, under any circumstances. I will 100% always vote democrat in every election for the rest of my life
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;52189298]How do you provide healthcare to people who can't afford it if the people who can afford it aren't required to take part in the system?[/QUOTE]
I think each state having its own single payer system would be a decent way of solving the problem. As opposed to obamacare, or federal single payer.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52189770]Whenever people say "The democrats and republicans are the same assholes, same thing etc." remind them of this
I will literally never vote Republican, under any circumstances. I will 100% always vote democrat in every election for the rest of my life[/QUOTE]
Most people vote for only one party their entire life.
[QUOTE=viper shtf;52189885]I think each state having its own single payer system would be a decent way of solving the problem. As opposed to obamacare, or federal single payer.[/QUOTE]
New York, California, Massachusetts, Virginia, etc. would all have great healthcare systems and Alabama, Missouri, Florida, Wyoming, etc. would all have people dying due to poor healthcare.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52189770]Whenever people say "The democrats and republicans are the same assholes, same thing etc." remind them of this
I will literally never vote Republican, under any circumstances. I will 100% always vote democrat in every election for the rest of my life[/QUOTE]
Remember that time when Republicans were today's Democrats, and Democrats were today's Republicans?
[QUOTE=KingofBeast;52190325]Remember that time when Republicans were today's Democrats, and Democrats were today's Republicans?[/QUOTE]
What does that have to do with anything?
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52189770]Whenever people say "The democrats and republicans are the same assholes, same thing etc." remind them of this
I will literally never vote Republican, under any circumstances. I will 100% always vote democrat in every election for the rest of my life[/QUOTE]
It's a false equivalency anyway. Sure, both the democrats and republicans are comprised of career politicians. Doesn't mean the Democrats are the same thing or support the same policies or [B]actively fuck over their voterbase and their entire country for personal gain.[/B]. (At least not in the same ways)
[QUOTE=Kyle902;52190358]What does that have to do with anything?[/QUOTE]
The notion of absolutely devoting yourself to one side when their platforms are far from concrete. It was directed at his remark, not the arguments/debates going on in the thread.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52189696]Um. Very different circumstances. A very different time.
The oppression in Ireland was much more extreme and complete...It's not comparable.
And what that video doesn't mention is the day those clips dramatised: [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1920)"]Bloody Sunday, 1920[/URL], where the following happened after the death of the Cario Gang:
You don't want to go down the path of violent revolution - not without expecting horrible consequences.
.[/QUOTE]
Although I was only advocating for the use of intimidation via guerrilla tactics against certain politicians as a hypothetical event in modern America, and not implying that Bloody Sunday and the Troubles in Ireland are exactly the same as those faced now in the states, I will now take the opportunity to do so in detail.
You're right. These events aren't comparable at all.
If anything, the situation now is infinitely worse because instead of one empire exerting their power on an island nation, it's [i]less than a hundred people exerting their power over the [b]entire world.[/b][/i]
There's also the fact that the policies these politicians support will permanently damage [b]all life on earth[/b] and indirectly kill [b]millions[/b] of people.
I've seen the whole film, I already know they massacred a stadium full of people afterwards. In unintended reprisal.
It struck me as having the exact same reaction from the Irish, that the Boston Massacre had on the American colonists.
And like any situation in history where people want to make a better world for themselves and their families, the cost of freedom is always high.
Whether the new boss will be the same as or worse than the old boss, I can't say. But nothing good in history ever happened without sacrifice.
There are always consequences regardless of our action or inaction to history taking shape around us.
And I believe that the chance of preventing climate change from worsening is worth the chance of inciting regional violence, over the inevitable global violence that climate change will bring.
And in case you haven't noticed, the US has been an oppressive, conservative-Christian state of little opportunity to an extent, since the 1980s.
Only now, it is fully embracing it.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;52187275]Well, as long as people are content to just sit and bitch on their favorite social media outlet/forum, then nothing's going to get done. Furthermore if people just sit and let a movement stay decentralized (looking at BLM), then your movement will be diluted by those who just seek to destroy, not reform, and as such your movement will lose all credibility in the eyes of the very people you're trying to help.
Remember, the poor who keep voting republican keep voting republican for a reason. They keep getting fucked. So how do you turn them blue and keep them blue? Stop fucking them. If you're going to make an insurance policy for the entire nation, make it affordable, keep premiums capped.
I live in one of the poorest states in the nation, people here are RAMPANTLY red, all because they remember exactly what happens to their tax money: No one knows. We have tax rates as high as NYC here, and yet our roads are fucking trash, our schools cant even stay open 5 days a week (they're open 4 days a week), our healthcare system is burdened to the point of breaking, so where is all the money going? We don't fucking know. At all. Our budget has a 9 million dollar deficit, we can't tax the people any more, but they don't trust you to tax the corps more because you fucked up with taxing the people so poorly.[/QUOTE]
There's a flaw in what you're saying. If your state is rampantly red because of high taxes and nothing to show for it, why is nothing changing? Why are taxes still high if the GOP is in control?
Republican advice on healthcare:
1) Stop being poor.
2) If 1) fails, you don't need healthcare when you are dead.
[QUOTE=aznz888;52186042]It's amazing how shitty this bill is -- it's so shitty that they won't release its details to the public, or cast any ads about it, or even talk about it. They just wrote it and threw it into the house so they could get some good-boy points.[/QUOTE]
All things that conservatives criticized the ACA for (the public not knowing what was in it, etc.)
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;52197870]All things that conservatives criticized the ACA for (the public not knowing what was in it, etc.)[/QUOTE]
Compared to this bill, ACA was fairly transparent. Whereas with this one they tried to pass it before the budget office managed to do a report on the cost.
I still can hardly believe that republicans had SEVEN YEARS to perfect their replacement but instead they're pushing some half-baked written-at-the-last-moment and they're haven't trouble getting that passed EVEN with a majority in the executive branch.
Even if you somehow support these backward and harmful policies, how can anyone SUPPORT these people? These old white men can't even put in the effort to stay informed and be educated on the shit they're fucking voting on.
Dear lord what I would pay to see places suddenly swing hard left in the 2018 elections.
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