Taxing the rich is good for the economy, IMF says - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Ruski v2.0;44073289]no seriously though this is bullshit it'll only stimulate the economy through the rich having to work harder to make the same amount for themselves, not because joe bloggs spends $20 on beer. that would just increase the amount of money in circulation, it doesn't mean the economy will definately see a boost. i don't want the government to steal my hard earned money.[/QUOTE] Mate, an increase in the amount of money in circulation IS what creates growth. If you took $16 out of savings and gave it to someone else, who then gave $12 to someone else, who then gave $9 to someone else etc. (assuming a MPC of 0.75) you are effectively creating growth. There is a reason why money circulation is low during a recession, and why governments attempt to avoid or escape recessions through stimulus policy. Can you guess what that stimulus policy typically involves? It's normally handouts to consumers. So they can do the exact same thing that I said at the start of this paragraph.

[QUOTE=Aman;44072953]75% really doesn't make sense. If I am that rich anyway I would just move to another country to escape that or have off shore accounts. It is just asking to get avoided.[/QUOTE] Global 75% tax rate on earnings over $1m. Lets. Do. This. Shit. If you're taking these posts seriously like a certain someone (you know who you are) clearly is, I actually want to feel sorry for you, but I'm too poor for emotions, there is only work for minimum wage to be done. A "massively" high tax rate on earnings over $1m really has minimal impact on the total income of a rich person, they are still full of dosh, and as I have to keep saying, I have worked this out, I'm not pulling numbers out of my arse here. If they flee the country because of it? Well, they're just re-enforcing the stereotype that rich people are fucking evil.

Tax the rich, they already have massive amounts of money, and may the greedy get the hell off of america along with their shitty company with it as well. Reduce the taxes among the poor, they still suffering from not being able to pay off their dept and have a hard time paying bills with their unemployment and their mcdonalds $7.50 dollar an hour job.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;44073529]Global 75% tax rate on earnings over $1m. Lets. Do. This. Shit. If you're taking these posts seriously like a certain someone (you know who you are) clearly is, I actually want to feel sorry for you, but I'm too poor for emotions, there is only work for minimum wage to be done. A "massively" high tax rate on earnings over $1m really has minimal impact on the total income of a rich person, they are still full of dosh, and as I have to keep saying, I have worked this out, I'm not pulling numbers out of my arse here. If they flee the country because of it? Well, they're just re-enforcing the stereotype that rich people are fucking evil.[/QUOTE] Yeah! Damn those rich people for wanting to keep what they earn!

I still feel as though there is a hell of a lot of people who don't understand tax brackets.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;44073529]Global 75% tax rate on earnings over $1m. Lets. Do. This. Shit. If you're taking these posts seriously like a certain someone (you know who you are) clearly is, I actually want to feel sorry for you, but I'm too poor for emotions, there is only work for minimum wage to be done. A "massively" high tax rate on earnings over $1m really has minimal impact on the total income of a rich person, they are still full of dosh, and as I have to keep saying, I have worked this out, I'm not pulling numbers out of my arse here. If they flee the country because of it? Well, they're just re-enforcing the stereotype that rich people are fucking evil.[/QUOTE] Just a question, why 75%? Why not 50%? Or 90%? What makes 75% the golden figure? I'd support a final tax bracket above 50% as long as total tax collected does not exceed 50% of total taxable income. Given that when a tax bracket begins, the effective tax rate at that point is nowhere near what that tax bracket is. Of course, if you have a final tax bracket of 50% the effective tax rate will never reach 50%.

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;44073632]Yeah! Damn those rich people for wanting to keep what they earn![/QUOTE] You just don't get it, do you? What could this outrageously high number on a bank account achieve more than a slightly less outrageous number? This money could be feeding people, fixing the economy and educating the youth of tomorrow. But none of that is important, so long a CEO can add an extra 0 at the end of his bank account.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44073229]Nail on head. Sometimes I may deviate slightly depending on particular policies or areas, but roughly I am a Keynesian.[/QUOTE] Keynesian economics seem quite sustainable from what I remember of a quick skimming. Capitalism allows for some really cool advances when people who aren't total assholes have ideas and capital. But government intervention really isn't going to ruin it all. [editline]28th February 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;44073632]Yeah! Damn those rich people for wanting to keep what they earn![/QUOTE] They earned it through the use of the society they take part in. The roads, phone lines, water, space, whatever. They should pay back. They get to keep "what they earn" because taxed income isn't "what they earn" anyway. It's tax.

Sobotnik isn't against government intervention though?

socialism is bad

[QUOTE=Antdawg;44073658]Just a question, why 75%? Why not 50%? Or 90%? What makes 75% the golden figure? I'd support a final tax bracket above 50% as long as total tax collected does not exceed 50% of total taxable income. Given that when a tax bracket begins, the effective tax rate at that point is nowhere near what that tax bracket is.[/QUOTE] 75% because I wanted to take a pop at the guys in the France thread who kept posting "no no no this is badd!!!!". [editline]28th February 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=deltasquid;44073693]Sobotnik isn't against government intervention though?[/QUOTE] Never said Sobotnik was :v: Though reading the post I could see how you could get that from it. Awful wording on my part.

capitalism is bad

[QUOTE=avincent;44072887]Read my edited post... Rich people don't just buy luxurious items 24/7. But go ahead keep thinking that. I'm sure a business will totally hire new employees if it's getting taxed more. I mean it's only logical! Make less money! Hire more people![/QUOTE] It's this kind of ignorant thinking that keeps the system completely fucked. New jobs don't come from LSO's anyway, small business is the big winner in that department.

You're all lunatics. Fucking lunatics. At this point I don't care about getting a temp ban for flaming or whatever, because [b]the things you people are saying are outrageous and genuinely infuriating,[/b] and I feel the need to at least [i]try[/i] to make you really think about this. [b]Before blowing me off as just another "angry, greedy, dumb american," please think about this:[/b] Imagine yourself working a high-risk, high-stress, and high-responsibility job, making $1m per year. You're already paying approx $400,000 in taxes yearly. Then you read that people who are too lazy to work themselves are demanding even higher tax rates for "the rich." (a.k.a. you, because you work hard and actually contribute to society) Would you be as infuriated as I am? As far as I'm concerned, anyone who works hard to earn their fortune should be entitled to ALL of their money, without people like you bunch deciding that they should give the majority of it to the government. I'm not trying to get any sort of reaction out of this post, the only reason I posted this is with hope that at least someone who reads this will have a change of heart. I'm done. Thank you for letting me rant.

[QUOTE=avincent;44072906]Yea I guess one study we should just say fuck-it to everything that's ever happened in the past.[/QUOTE] What you mean like Reagan's tax cuts completely proving that trickle down economics doesn't work and that cutting taxes for the rich just makes them richer and the poor poorer? [editline]27th February 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=DeadCow;44073770]You're all lunatics. Fucking lunatics. At this point I don't care about getting a temp ban for flaming or whatever, because [B]the things you people are saying are outrageous and genuinely infuriating,[/B] and I feel the need to at least [I]try[/I] to make you really think about this. [B]Before blowing me off as just another "angry, greedy, dumb american," please think about this:[/B] Imagine yourself working a high-risk, high-stress, and high-responsibility job, making $1m per year. You're already paying approx $400,000 in taxes yearly. Then you read that people who are too lazy to work themselves are demanding even higher tax rates for "the rich." (a.k.a. you, because you work hard and actually contribute to society) Would you be as infuriated as I am? As far as I'm concerned, anyone who works hard to earn their fortune should be entitled to ALL of their money, without people like you bunch deciding that they should give the majority of it to the government. I'm done. Thank you for letting me rant.[/QUOTE] Yeah but you're assuming that the people who make that much money work proportionally hard for it. I'm not saying it's not hard work, but the Mexican immigrant in SoCal who has to work 2 full-time jobs and live in terrible conditions just to feed his family is working significantly harder than any CEO in this country and is making fuck all for it.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;44073681]They earned it through the use of the society they take part in. The roads, phone lines, water, space, whatever. They should pay back. They get to keep "what they earn" because taxed income isn't "what they earn" anyway. It's tax.[/QUOTE] You can try that reasoning all you want, but it doesn't make any sense, because wealth=/=higher personal use of infrastructure. Just because you have $10,000 in your bank account doesn't mean you will use roads exponentially more than if you only had $1,000 in your bank account at that moment... [QUOTE=RenegadeCop;44073680]They don't need that shit. [/QUOTE] Remember guys, you only have freedom to your private property, but only as much as you "need".....

[QUOTE=DeadCow;44073770]Then you read that people who are too lazy to work themselves are demanding even higher tax rates for "the rich." (a.k.a. you, because you work hard and actually contribute to society)[/QUOTE] Are you dense? Do you think poor people are poor simply because they're lazy? That's just insulting and completely wrong. A lot of people who need this help work hard jobs as single mothers or struggling students, trying to tie enough money together to survive one more month. Money could be spent to improve their lives. Money could be used to give people an education you managed to get because of your (parents'!!!!) moneyand they can not, simply because they were born in the wrong family. You are not better than these people. Stop acting like it. Making the more fortunate contribute more to society is humane and logical.

[QUOTE=DeadCow;44073770]You're all lunatics. Fucking lunatics. At this point I don't care about getting a temp ban for flaming or whatever, because [b]the things you people are saying are outrageous and genuinely infuriating,[/b] and I feel the need to at least [i]try[/i] to make you really think about this. [b]Before blowing me off as just another "angry, greedy, dumb american," please think about this:[/b] Imagine yourself working a high-risk, high-stress, and high-responsibility job, making $1m per year. You're already paying approx $400,000 in taxes yearly. Then you read that people who are too lazy to work themselves are demanding even higher tax rates for "the rich." (a.k.a. you, because you work hard and actually contribute to society) Would you be as infuriated as I am? As far as I'm concerned, anyone who works hard to earn their fortune should be entitled to ALL of their money, without people like you bunch deciding that they should give the majority of it to the government. I'm done. Thank you for letting me rant.[/QUOTE] I'm going to give you a chance. Because I made the mistake of giving someone even more fucking uninformed on the subject a chance in the France tax thread. And still held my ground. Yeah, being a CEO is a pretty vital job, you are the managing director of an entire company after all. However, almost all of the real stress, real work, is delegated to those below you. They are the ones who collect data, analyse it to provide you with information that you act on. And even then, you don't make those decisions alone, you have a entire board of people in public companies to help you direct the company, you are not alone as a CEO. You are just a figurehead. It is high responsibility in that if your company fucks up, [B]you[/B] are the one who will take the blame publicly. However, work wise it's becoming less and less a thing, you delegate work to employees, you use computers to crunch numbers and make sound predictions on matters, you earn a totally disproportionate amount of money if you're one of the industry leaders. However to say that "people who are too lazy to work themselves are demanding even higher tax rates" is really, really fucking insulting. And massively petty. A lot of us are of working age here, we've worked in our lives, and some still do (others are in education or incapable of work anyway). You really, really need to retract that because it's not just "people who are too lazy to work themselves" demanding this, but educated economists agreeing and saying it works. And why should someone kept to keep all of an arbitrary wage they set because they "think" they deserve that much? None of their wage would be possible without the people they hire and the society that supports them. They should pay their dues and contribute to the society funding to allow for a healthier, more educated workforce. Don't call us uninformed when you yourself are massively out of touch with the subject. conclusion: Capitalistic pig dog. [editline]edited[/editline] Get your ass back here homeslice. Don't bail when someone actually puts effort in.

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;44073804] Remember guys, you only have freedom to your private property, but only as much as you "need".....[/QUOTE] So if I were to take your reasoning to its logical conclusion, and a person "earned" all of the money in the world, would it be just and fair for him to sit upon his gold tower as the world starves?

[QUOTE=l337k1ll4;44073772] Yeah but you're assuming that the people who make that much money work proportionally hard for it. I'm not saying it's not hard work, but the Mexican immigrant in SoCal who has to work 2 full-time jobs and live in terrible conditions just to feed his family is working significantly harder than any CEO in this country and is making fuck all for it.[/QUOTE] How can we actually tell this in an objective way?

[QUOTE=DeadCow;44073770]Imagine yourself working a high-risk, high-stress, and high-responsibility job, making $1m per year. You're already paying approx $400,000 in taxes yearly. Then you read that people who are too lazy to work themselves are demanding even higher tax rates for "the rich." (a.k.a. you, because you work hard and actually contribute to society)[/QUOTE] You stopped making sense when you equated "people who are too lazy to work themselves" with "the poor".

It's amazing and disgusting how far people are willing to stretch morals and reasoning to fly against all common sense and decency.

[QUOTE=OrDnAs;44073863]How can we actually tell this in an objective way?[/QUOTE] It's really hard to tell this, which is one of the reasons systems like communism struggle. Educated people expect more for the time spent learning material. Manual labourers expect more for the personal risk involved. Measuring by man hours doesn't work, and comparing the mental stress to physical stress also doesn't work.

[QUOTE=deltasquid;44073831]Are you dense? Do you think poor people are poor simply because they're lazy? That's just insulting and completely wrong. A lot of people who need this help work hard jobs as single mothers or struggling students, trying to tie enough money together to survive one more month. Money could be spent to improve their lives. Money could be used to give people an education you managed to get because of your (parents'!!!!) moneyand they can not, simply because they were born in the wrong family. You are not better than these people. Stop acting like it. Making the more fortunate contribute more to society is humane and logical.[/QUOTE] wow, he never said that poor people are lazy. He just said that not all high-earners are fucking lazy. Crazy, isn't it?

[QUOTE=OrDnAs;44073895]wow, he never said that poor people are lazy. He just said that not all high-earners are fucking lazy. Crazy, isn't it?[/QUOTE] Except he explicitly said that "people who are too lazy to work themselves are demanding even higher tax rates for "the rich."" He's ad verbatim calling poor people lazy. EDIT: unless he calls the people working at the IMF and economy professors lazy, in which case he's still wrong.

[QUOTE=deltasquid;44073842]So if I were to take your reasoning to its logical conclusion, and a person "earned" all of the money in the world, would it be just and fair for him to sit upon his gold tower as the world starves?[/QUOTE] You are assuming that one could amass all of the money in the world. I do feel, however, that I should clarify that taxing the rich more than the poor is completely justifiable. An economy could not survive without differing tax rates. What I'm trying to say is that "pshhhh, they can afford it" or "they don't need all of that money" is a piss poor excuse to disproportionately and excessively tax the rich.

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;44073925]You are assuming that one could amass all of the money in the world. I do feel, however, that I should clarify that taxing the rich more than the poor is completely justifiable. An economy could not survive without differing tax rates. What I'm trying to say is that "pshhhh, they can afford it" or "they don't need all of that money" is a piss poor excuse to disproportionately and excessively tax the rich.[/QUOTE] It's just one of the reasons why you should tax the rich more. The thing is that "they can afford it" is what makes it not disproportionate, nor excessive.

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;44073925]You are assuming that one could amass all of the money in the world. I do feel, however, that I should clarify that taxing the rich more than the poor is completely justifiable. An economy could not survive without differing tax rates. What I'm trying to say is that "pshhhh, they can afford it" or "they don't need all of that money" is a piss poor excuse to disproportionately and excessively tax the rich.[/QUOTE] The problem is that we need more money. Our country is fucking broke, our infrastructure is crumbling, our healthcare and education are a fucking joke, we can't fund vital elements of our government, so we need to raise taxes, but at the same time taxes for the poor are already too high, so we need to lower taxes for the poor, but raise taxes overall. I see one option here.

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;44073632]Yeah! Damn those rich people for wanting to keep what they earn![/QUOTE] What they earned was through systems that the rich tend to bias in their favour. The system is far from fair, and saying what they earn is entirely theirs is false. Besides, Marginal Propensity to consume and other stuff like that. [QUOTE=deltasquid;44074005]Also, lowering taxes on the poor and raising taxes on the rich to compensate means the poor will buy and spend more, but the rich will barely feel it. This is good for companies. This is, in turn, good for the rich. We've come a full circle, except now the poor are not starving. Congratulations! You now understand keynesian economics, which helped the USA get out of the Great Depression![/QUOTE] Too bad our government doesn't follow Keynesian entirely. Raising spending during a boom cycle, durrr

Also, lowering taxes on the poor and raising taxes on the rich to compensate means the poor will buy and spend more, but the rich will barely feel it. This is good for companies. This is, in turn, good for the rich. We've come a full circle, except now the poor are not starving. Congratulations! You now understand keynesian economics, which helped the USA get out of the Great Depression!