I swear if I ever become a big money businessman all I'd ever buy with that wealth is PC parts, model kits, a nice-ish car and maybe eat out twice a month instead of once. I'd move to the place with the fastest internet and buy the most convenient house rather than the biggest. The rest of my money goes to agricultural research (much better than direct food aid) and NASA. The end.
My name is Rich and I want to know why I'm being unfairly targeted here...
[QUOTE=DeadCow;44073770]You're all lunatics. Fucking lunatics. At this point I don't care about getting a temp ban for flaming or whatever, because [B]the things you people are saying are outrageous and genuinely infuriating,[/B] and I feel the need to at least [I]try[/I] to make you really think about this.
[B]Before blowing me off as just another "angry, greedy, dumb american," please think about this:[/B]
Imagine yourself working a high-risk, high-stress, and high-responsibility job, making $1m per year. You're already paying approx $400,000 in taxes yearly. Then you read that people who are too lazy to work themselves are demanding even higher tax rates for "the rich." (a.k.a. you, because you work hard and actually contribute to society)
Would you be as infuriated as I am?
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who works hard to earn their fortune should be entitled to ALL of their money, without people like you bunch deciding that they should give the majority of it to the government.
I'm not trying to get any sort of reaction out of this post, the only reason I posted this is with hope that at least someone who reads this will have a change of heart.
I'm done. Thank you for letting me rant.[/QUOTE]
If your going to ask us not to stereotype rich people as greedy then dont stereotype poor people as "lazy" and "unwilling to work" 1% of the population controls 35% of the money and the only jobs they create are for other 1%ers You wanna talk about high stress lets see one of these guys work in a fedex warehouse for 13 hours a day just to afford a one bedroom apartment. For the rest of the country thats what it has come to and only a select few get to "move up"
The problem started when they found out they could save a few dollars by moving all of our manufacturing jobs overseas for wages Americans cant afford to live on. There is just not enough investment banking jobs to go around. Now with normal people flooding entry level jobs young people with no work experience are fucked. This could all be solved if people would just give up a little bit of their money.
Anyone who never watched the cartoon "recess" as a kid I encourage you to look up the "monstickers" episode. Its an accurate portrait of capitalism and its eventual downfall.
[QUOTE=Mudbone;44074133]The problem started when they found out they could save a few dollars by moving all of our manufacturing jobs overseas for wages Americans cant afford to live on.[/quote]
To be honest, people should be able to outsource jobs. We are increasingly living in one global society with a single integrated job market for the entire human population. Outsourcing has been a major driver of economic growth in China, with impressive strides made in poverty reduction. If people outsource work, that's indicative that your country ought to be sharing a few things with the rest of the world.
[quote]Anyone who never watched the cartoon "recess" as a kid I encourage you to look up the "monstickers" episode. Its an accurate portrait of capitalism and its eventual downfall.[/QUOTE]
Capitalism doesn't really destroy itself. It goes through phases in which monopolies form and then break down over time, often causing a lot of secondary problems at the same time. You can't really have a downfall of it, because given enough time, population growth and resource scarcity will result in a degeneration of whatever non-capitalist economic system you have into a position where markets allocate an increasing share of resources, if only for basic survival of both people and the regime.
If you really wanted to "tax the rich" you wouldnt raise income taxes, you'd raise capital gain taxes.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44074549]To be honest, people should be able to outsource jobs. We are increasingly living in one global society with a single integrated job market for the entire human population. Outsourcing has been a major driver of economic growth in China, with impressive strides made in poverty reduction. If people outsource work, that's indicative that your country ought to be sharing a few things with the rest of the world.
Capitalism doesn't really destroy itself. It goes through phases in which monopolies form and then break down over time, often causing a lot of secondary problems at the same time. You can't really have a downfall of it, because given enough time, population growth and resource scarcity will result in a degeneration of whatever non-capitalist economic system you have into a position where markets allocate an increasing share of resources, if only for basic survival of both people and the regime.[/QUOTE]
I don't agree with a global economy. It only benefits those who already have money because they are able to do everything on the cheap and maximize their own profits. Normally that is not bad in itself but time has proven that all these extra profits do nothing but sit in their pockets. They aren't taxed and the money is never put to use. How much money does any one person really need. Not a matter of if they deserve it but what are you really going to do with 10 billion dollars.
[QUOTE=Mudbone;44074643]I don't agree with a global economy. It only benefits those who already have money because they are able to do everything on the cheap and maximize their own profits. Normally that is not bad in itself but time has proven that all these extra profits do nothing but sit in their pockets. They aren't taxed and the money is never put to use. How much money does any one person really need. Not a matter of if they deserve it but what are you really going to do with 10 billion dollars.[/QUOTE]
A global economy doesn't mean the rich can't be taxed.
[QUOTE=avincent;44072781]Hahahahahah this is what peasants actually believe.
You do realize the richer people are the more people like you they can hire right? Oh wait let's just tax them more that makes sense.[/QUOTE]
People don't pay their staff out of their pocket, they pay their staff out of their business' payroll budget. Business tax rates and personal income tax rates are different.
Business owners pay personal income tax on what they pay themselves. (Probably with special tax breaks for business owners)
Please stop regurgitating right-wing talking points it's soooo annoying, the rich don't "create jobs" because the rich don't have employees, their [b]businesses[/b] have employees and the business' success is independent from the owner's success. Some of the most "successful" small business owners are poor because they barely pay themselves anything, and some of the least successful businesses are run by billionaires who keep giving themselves massive bonuses.
[QUOTE=Code3Response;44074614]If you really wanted to "tax the rich" you wouldnt raise income taxes, you'd raise capital gain taxes.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. You hear lots of stories of CEOs on $1 annual salaries, which is the case for many. But what actually happens is they are instead rewarded with shares, which they can sell back to the market or hold on for dividends. I think most countries have capital gains be considered as taxable income, so they are taxed at the same progressive rates as earnings, but don't quote me on that.
[QUOTE=avincent;44072781]Hahahahahah this is what peasants actually believe.
You do realize the richer people are the more people like you they can hire right? Oh wait let's just tax them more that makes sense.[/QUOTE]
I know it's late but holy shit. You actually referred to poor people as peasants... non ironically
[QUOTE=avincent;44072825]Yea, it's their fucking money. What gives the government the right to have more than half your fucking money?
You also realize a lot of their extra money goes to creating new jobs, building businesses, donating to charities etc. People don't just get rich and say oh fuck it I'm done, I wouldn't expect anyone in this thread to actually understand the bigger picture though.[/QUOTE]
The left simply believes in theft, it's always about wanting more free stuff. Nobody deserves to have their money taxed at 75%.
The problem isn't with taxes, the government is spending too much.
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;44072782]but, but, we should have a flat tax, only that way can taxes be fair, otherwise the rich won't be able to have 3 Ferraris.
[sp]certain folks in this very forum believe this is a good idea(unsurprisingly)[/sp][/QUOTE]
I think the idea is more about charging all of the taxes you should pay at the point of purchase, that way no one can get out of paying them and it doesn't really matter if your a crime boss, rich dude, illegal immigrant, or regular hardworking guy you pay your fair share. I wouldn't go for a 'flat' tax, but more a really high sales tax on non-essential items(food clothing shelter healthcare etc) Coupled with an import tax that is variable and seeks to equalize the tax paid on domestic goods, to increase the incentive to use domestic goods and services. The biggest benefit for someone like me is that I get all the money I work for in my paycheck, so I can more easily save to go to college, buy a car/house, or other things that I normally wouldn't have the money to save for. I can do that under a system like this because buying only the essentials is untaxed, which would greatly reduce the strain on public assistance and allow farming to become profitable again.
less paperwork too.
also I believe that you are entitled to everything you honestly work for. If you build an empire and make billions ethically and justly, you deserve that money because you would have left no one working for less than they were worth, paid all your debts, and been responsible for economic growth. It's the people who amass fortunes by fucking people that you should be angry with, they are the real damage doers.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;44073925]You are assuming that one could amass all of the money in the world.
I do feel, however, that I should clarify that taxing the rich more than the poor is completely justifiable. An economy could not survive without differing tax rates. What I'm trying to say is that "pshhhh, they can afford it" or "they don't need all of that money" is a piss poor excuse to disproportionately and excessively tax the rich.[/QUOTE]
That said, even with absurd tax laws, they will still have many orders of magnitude more money than my entire family will have for several generations.
[QUOTE=Nomystik;44077123]The left simply believes in theft, it's always about wanting more free stuff. Nobody deserves to have their money taxed at 75%.
The problem isn't with taxes, the government is spending too much.[/QUOTE]
No. The problem is that the government needs to spend more and can't find the money because people insist that they really work 100,000 times harder than a guy working at minimum wage, and they ~deserve~ this money. Fiat pecunia, pereat mundus, I guess?
I didn't see this one coming I thought IMF was neoliberal as fucke.
edit: did they literally change their opinions because before this they've been enforcing pretty much the exact opposite (which always fucked up though and in effect resulted in less liberalism and more neocolonialism).
[QUOTE=Falchion;44077403]I didn't see this one coming I thought IMF was neoliberal as fucke.
edit: did they literally change their opinions because before this they've been enforcing pretty much the exact opposite (which always fucked up though and in effect resulted in less liberalism and more neocolonialism).[/QUOTE]
i guess they're getting tired of bailing out countries due to fucked up economic policies nonstop, plus the growing inequality benefits exactly no one, even the rich(since it will just result in backlash against them eventually).
[QUOTE=deltasquid;44077271]No. The problem is that the government needs to spend more and can't find the money because people insist that they really work 100,000 times harder than a guy working at minimum wage, and they ~deserve~ this money. Fiat pecunia, pereat mundus, I guess?[/QUOTE]
Minimum wage jobs usually links to entry level jobs, please don't tell me that raising the minimum wage will be good for jobs and businesses. The less skill the person has, the less he should be paid however with the minimum wage, people with little to no experience can't get a job in the first place and they will find it a struggle to get a job to improve their skills and they are not forced to work for a company, they can quit whenever they want - Perhaps work for a different company that pays better, which would have been possible to due experience in the other job.
And if people earn more crap loads more than other people, why the hell do you care?
The problem with Socialism is that you will eventually run out of other people's money.
[QUOTE=Nomystik;44077608]Minimum wage jobs usually links to entry level jobs, please don't tell me that raising the minimum wage will be good for jobs and businesses. The less skill the person has, the less he should be paid however if one can sell their labor at less, they can gain experience in order to advance.
And if people earn more crap loads more than other people, why the hell do you care?
The problem with Socialism is that you will eventually run out of other people's money.[/QUOTE]
i wonder who this troll account belongs to.
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;44077632]i wonder who this troll account belongs to.[/QUOTE]
Right, you disagree with me and I am a troll. That is the left of today, sad.
[QUOTE=Nomystik;44077608]The problem with Socialism is that you will eventually run out of other people's money.[/QUOTE]
While this may be true, the policies advocated by the IMF aren't socialist.
Socialism involves taking the "means of production" out of the hands of private individuals and into the ownership of the public. That is something to which I myself, the IMF, and a great deal of people are opposed to in general for most forms of enterprise.
[QUOTE=Nomystik;44077641]Right, you disagree with me and I am a troll. That is the left of today, sad.[/QUOTE]
one simply needs to check your posts, to see that you're trolling, or you're a total idiot.
[QUOTE=Nomystik;43924759]The minimum wage itself is disastrous.[/QUOTE]
lol
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;44077696]one simply needs to check your posts, to see that you're trolling, or you're a total idiot.
lol[/QUOTE]
Ok, then present your arguments then.
[QUOTE=Nomystik;44077713]Ok, then present your arguments then.[/QUOTE]
about what exactly? the topic? i already did, others did too, read it.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44077677]While this may be true, the policies advocated by the IMF aren't socialist.
Socialism involves taking the "means of production" out of the hands of private individuals and into the ownership of the public. That is something to which I myself, the IMF, and a great deal of people are opposed to in general for most forms of enterprise.[/QUOTE]
redistributing wealth via taxes, is socialistic in nature lol.
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;44077719]about what exactly? the topic? i already did, others did too, read it.[/QUOTE]
I was referring to the minimum wage. I also stated that nobody deserves to have their taxes at 75% and if government is forced to tax people at such percentages, you know there is a spending problem.
edit: A tax >50% as I suspect most people on this thread would support is also too excessive.
[QUOTE=Nomystik;44077608]Minimum wage jobs usually links to entry level jobs, please don't tell me that raising the minimum wage will be good for jobs and businesses. The less skill the person has, the less he should be paid however with the minimum wage, people with little to no experience can't get a job in the first place and they will find it a struggle to get a job to improve their skills and they are not forced to work for a company, they can quit whenever they want - Perhaps work for a different company that pays better, which would have been possible to due experience in the other job.
And if people earn more crap loads more than other people, why the hell do you care?
The problem with Socialism is that you will eventually run out of other people's money.[/QUOTE]
Ah yes, that horrible minimum wage, making sure your country doesn't slide into "work for 99 cents a day or get fired" levels of economic activities.
You can't quit whenever you want. You need a job to live. It's not as easy as going "whelp I'm tired of flipping burgers at McDonald's, better go work at starbucks" or whatever the hell your crazy-ass view of reality is.
And I care that people are obscenely rich because it harms the economy a million times worse than making sure the poorest people in society have enough income to feed their children more than once a day.
[QUOTE=deltasquid;44077740]Ah yes, that horrible minimum wage, making sure your country doesn't slide into "work for 99 cents a day or get fired" levels of economic activities.
You can't quit whenever you want. You need a job to live. It's not as easy as going "whelp I'm tired of flipping burgers at McDonald's, better go work at starbucks" or whatever the hell your crazy-ass view of reality is.
And I care that people are obscenely rich because it harms the economy a million times worse than making sure the poorest people in society have enough income to feed their children more than once a day.[/QUOTE]
Ok, look at it this way, if there is a person has low skills and the minimum wage is set at $7.25, will he get hired? Most likely not because his productivity does not reach the minimum wage levels of $7.25, businesses will not hire people who produce less than this. There are plenty of jobs going around that pay more than $7.25 an hour in America, you know businesses don't have to pay them more than $7.25 but if they did, they would quit and find a better job.
Remember, if someone has low skills again and is working at Mcdonalds for example and earning $7.25 an hour is probably getting the best deal. Yes it sucks he is working at Mcdonalds but the fact that he is unable to find work at other places that offer a better deal. Are you implying that you rather people on welfare instead?
How do rich people harm the economy? You think wealth is one big pie and 40% of the pie is just handed to the 1% like that?
[QUOTE=Nomystik;44077772]How do rich people harm the economy? You think wealth is one big pie and 40% of the pie is just handed to the 1% like that?[/QUOTE]
Money needs to move to create more money. I don't give two shits where the money comes from, but it needs to move.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44077774]Money needs to move to create more money. I don't give two shits where the money comes from, but it needs to move.[/QUOTE]
New fortunes are created everyday. Savings also help the economy, giving banks more capital to loan out to businesses. Cheap money from the federal reserve on the other hand...
[QUOTE=Nomystik;44077772]Ok, look at it this way, if there is a person has low skills and the minimum wage is set at $7.25, will he get hired? Most likely not because his productivity does not reach the minimum wage levels of $7.25, businesses will not hire people who produce less than this. There are plenty of jobs going around that pay more than $7.25 an hour in America, you know businesses don't have to pay them more than $7.25 but if they did, they would all quit.
Remember, if someone has low skills again and is working at Mcdonalds for example and earning $7.25 an hour is probably getting the best deal. Yes it sucks he is working at Mcdonalds but the fact that he is unable to find work at other places that offer a better deal. Are you implying that you rather people on welfare instead?
How do rich people harm the economy? You think wealth is one big pie and 40% of the pie is just handed to the 1% like that?[/QUOTE]
I really don't understand. Are you saying a company will stop hiring people if the minimum wage goes up, and would rather bankrupt themselves trying to find skilled workers? Are you saying a person who flips burgers for 7,25 dollars an hour is necessarily worse at it than someone who does a 10 dollar an hour job?
And rich people harm the economy when they hoard money instead of investing it. Using this money for education instead of letting him buy a solid golden house or whatever the hell you're supposed to buy when you reach the 75% income tax bracket, or raising the minimum wage so the poor can buy more stuff (which in turn makes businesses turn a profit), is a hell of a lot more efficient. The pie can grow or shrink, but right now we're giving pie to people who aren't hungry any more while someone starves at the other end of the table.
[QUOTE=Nomystik;44077782]New fortunes are created everyday. Savings also help the economy, giving banks more capital to loan out to businesses. Cheap money from the federal reserve on the other hand...[/QUOTE]
What's wrong with the federal reserve? Saving money (in aggregate) will cause a glut in production if it gets too far.
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