Rep. Mike Honda trying to ban body armor sales to public in USA - H.R. 5344 bill - Polidicks

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;45652884]Here in Minnesota any crime committed while wearing body armor automatically gets bumped up to a felony. As a security guard in a very rough part of town body armor is a necessity for me. Some of us have to deal with people that are willing to kill you over a candy bar, and I like to give myself every chance to not get killed.[/QUOTE] Shit man. I work security at an amusement park, and the worst we've had is people getting into shouting matches with us and the local police when they get caught shoplifting. We don't get body armor, we don't get batons, we don't get anything remotely related to use-of-force. All we get is a uniform and a radio. 'Course, we also get payed minimum wage, so there's that.

[QUOTE=Thlis;45653885]Maybe it's history [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_hollywood_shootout[/URL][/QUOTE] So a shooting 17 years ago prompted this guy to propose this specific legislation? Really? Lots of places have had shootings without trying to pass this sort of thing. Unless you want to try and show some correlation between the number of shootings in the place and the type of crazy gun regulation passed by that place, then a list of past shootings isn't really relevant.

[QUOTE=GunFox;45653791]Uhh level II will stop basically all combat calibers for handguns. 9mm,.40, and .45. That is going to cover the overwhelming majority of what will fly your way. Level II is basically the minimum. Almost no vests are manufactured below that level, even for concealment purposes. I don't know where people are getting the idea that soft armor is useless. Is it good against everything? No. Is it good against the most commonly used handgun calibers? Absolutely.[/QUOTE] newer armor is good yeah but the stuff you get at gun shows and whatnot for money that people can actually afford is usually older stuff

[QUOTE=Thlis;45653885]Maybe it's history [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_hollywood_shootout[/url][/QUOTE] Yeah that Assault Weapons Ban really prevented those two from amassing a small armoury and waging war on the LAPD.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;45653982]Yeah that Assault Weapons Ban really prevented those two from amassing a small armoury and waging war on the LAPD.[/QUOTE] Unless you are arguing for stronger weapons bans, the weapons they got were converted to automatic.

[QUOTE=Thlis;45653999]Unless you are arguing for stronger weapons bans, the weapons they got were converted to automatic.[/QUOTE] I'm saying the ban did jack shit to stop them, it would have happened with or without the ban.

[QUOTE=Thlis;45653999]Unless you are arguing for stronger weapons bans, the weapons they got were converted to automatic.[/QUOTE] you can't reliably convert a civilian ak to automatic without putting legit automatic parts in, and those parts are just as heavily regulated as actual machine guns. the only way to do it without those parts is to cut down the disconnector so that the gun keeps firing out of battery, which often leads to the gun exploding in your hands. seeing as that didn't happen, they probably got the real parts from somewhere. AR15s can be converted without machine gun parts fairly easily if you have the equipment and skills but most people don't have access to a full machine shop. I'm thinking they got the parts illegally somewhere, not just shitty conversions done in a garage. no amount of regulation could have prevented that.

[QUOTE=Thlis;45653885]Maybe it's history [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_hollywood_shootout[/url][/QUOTE] No its California.

Oh, well, even if body armor gets banned I'll just go out to the garage and make my own. [img]http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2009/11/16/1225798/343910-armour-worn-by-ned-kelly.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=hexpunK;45652654]I'm trying to work out why you linked to "dumblaws.com"? Surely there are better sources for details of the law. Having laws that apply when you break laws isn't particularly dumb, this is one of those cases, it's extra shit to hit you with because you clearly wanted to go big. I'm not entirely sure what the politicians in the states who want to enact gun control are up to, they all seem to be going about it the wrong way. Banning body armour does seem relatively useless. There's no need for civilians to own it, but it's not like it can actually hurt anybody (easily), it's personal armour after all. Unless they've had a massive spate of criminals wearing armour or something silly, I dunno why this even crossed their minds.[/QUOTE] I was quick linking to be sure, cause I wasn't 100% sure my self.

One application in the civilian world people are overlooking would be security guards. Many of them work in dangerous areas. Especially in Cali. Also, armored car guards and armed couriers for money runs.

Are we talking about kevlar or ceramic armor plates? Because I doubt criminals would be lugging around a seven kilos ballistic vest, and banning kevlar armor would just be stupid. [editline]10th August 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;45654428]Oh, well, even if body armor gets banned I'll just go out to the garage and make my own. [img]http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2009/11/16/1225798/343910-armour-worn-by-ned-kelly.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] I'm sure your spleen would enjoy hot shrapnel.

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;45653912]Shit man. I work security at an amusement park, and the worst we've had is people getting into shouting matches with us and the local police when they get caught shoplifting. We don't get body armor, we don't get batons, we don't get anything remotely related to use-of-force. All we get is a uniform and a radio. 'Course, we also get payed minimum wage, so there's that.[/QUOTE] I'm decked out more or less the same as a cop minus the taser and gun, although I do conceal carry a small handgun for myself. I've gotten into first fights with folks over cans of red bull, and people threatening to kick my ass or kill me are almost a daily occurrence. That's only in that part of town though, other accounts I work I just wear cuffs and a baton and the most I deal with at them are flat tires or drunks. Never the less, nothing serves as a better wake up call then getting dragged by a SUV and slammed into a car or having a gun pulled on you. It's like the people who come up with these laws forget that criminals don't give a damn about what they're proposing. If this law were to some how pass I lose a level of protection. I generally wear a level III, because not only will it stop any round I'm likely to encounter in the streets but it also offers a much higher level of protection against getting stabbed than my level II vest. That's what I fear more than anything, and that's what I get to deal with more than anything. I can't remember how many times I've arrested someone and come to find a box cutter, screw drivers, ice picks, needles, or other sharps on them.

If I want a kevlar, I should be allowed to buy one. Also, California politicians are fucking hypocritical fucks who prey on peoples fears to pass bullshit fucking laws based on emotional knee jerks and not facts.

[QUOTE=GunFox;45653791]Uhh level II will stop basically all combat calibers for handguns. 9mm,.40, and .45. That is going to cover the overwhelming majority of what will fly your way. Level II is basically the minimum. Almost no vests are manufactured below that level, even for concealment purposes. I don't know where people are getting the idea that soft armor is useless. Is it good against everything? No. Is it good against the most commonly used handgun calibers? Absolutely.[/QUOTE] I still dont trust my life on it and I wear it every shift.

[QUOTE=Leon;45652114] [img]http://askmarion.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/yee-caguncontroladvocate-guntraffickerpersonally.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] That's about the same as putting up a pic of Adam Lanza and saying "This is the face of the Gun Owner."

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45654569]Actually, you're wrong. You couldn't convert an AR-15 without something called a "drop in auto sear", or without "machine gun parts", it's not a tec 9 or something retarded like that where a tiny peice of metal keeps it from being full auto, it's actually missing several components that would make it full auto. Even with a drop in sear, you'd have to replace the bolt carrier as well, all of these start getting pretty pricey, which is why not many people bother converting AR-15's to full auto and then using them in crimes; not when you could easily convert a tec 9, or build a mac-10, or if you really needed a Rifle, the AK series is so much easier to convert to full auto than an AR-15. This bill is fucking dumb, aside from the "north hollywood shootout" I can't honestly remember when someone used type 3 armor in a major crime, period. This is just one more instance of a fucking idiot politician who hears something and says "ERMAHGERD SCARY, MUST BAN". You'll rarely see body armor being used in a crime because it's heavy as fuck, and the plates are expensive as FUCK, even if it's "black market"; hell the cheapest armor is AR-500 plates, which are still 80$ a piece, and aren't as protective as something like an ESAPI plate. And even ESAPI's will be defeated with proper ammunition, why else should the cops have AR-15's if they aren't going to fucking use them properly?[/QUOTE] most ar15s already have the mil-spec full auto bolt carrier, which can be cut down to SP-1 specs for use with a lightning link, that's what machine shop stuff I'm talking. the only other thing you need is the correct fire control group if you want to retain the select fire ability, otherwise you've got safe and full auto with just an sp-1 bolt carrier and lightning link.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45654851]Except there isn't anyone running around using an AR-15 like that, because it's so much easier to convert any number of cheaper weapons for use in crime.[/QUOTE] yeah obviously, base price for an ar15 is close to $1000, any sensible thug would buy a $500 ak if he wanted a "scary assault weapon" or a little $80 .38 if he just wanted something he can scare a few people with

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45654890]1000$ in the civilian world. On the other markets is much higher. The AK on the other hand.. is so prolific that you can get that shit from fucking anywhere.[/QUOTE] or build your own. All you need is the receiver stamped by the ATF (right?) and you can just ebay the rest of the parts

[QUOTE=duralast;45654838]most ar15s already have the mil-spec full auto bolt carrier, which can be cut down to SP-1 specs for use with a lightning link, that's what machine shop stuff I'm talking. the only other thing you need is the correct fire control group if you want to retain the select fire ability, otherwise you've got safe and full auto with just an sp-1 bolt carrier and lightning link.[/QUOTE] Most ARs don't have full auto bcgs, although they are not difficult to modify into one with proper tools. With that being said a lightening link is probably the most unsafe and unreliable method of making an AR full auto when it comes to using parts. They're great if you like to have a gun fire out if battery. Honestly it's easier to just tie back the return sear with some fishing line if that's the kind of safety and reliability you're going after. Also, what on earth is an SP-1 bolt? Out of the hundreds of ARs and M16/M4s I've handled I've never seen such a thing.

yeah I know for a fact you can walk down any street in jackson or memphis and get you one for next to nothing. again though, there's no safe way to convert an AK to full auto without heavily regulated machine gun parts.

[QUOTE=duralast;45654878]yeah obviously, base price for an ar15 is close to $1000, any sensible thug would buy a $500 ak if he wanted a "scary assault weapon" or a little $80 .38 if he just wanted something he can scare a few people with[/QUOTE] I sell base model ARs for between $500-$6000. The price of AKs have gone up, with your once cheap N-PAP going for almost $600. Also, making an AK full auto is not that difficult with some basic machining skills.

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;45654899]Most ARs don't have full auto bcgs, although they are not difficult to modify into one with proper tools. With that being said a lightening link is probably the most unsafe and unreliable method of making an AR full auto when it comes to using parts. They're great if you like to have a gun fire out if battery. Honestly it's easier to just tie back the return sear with some fishing line if that's the kind of safety and reliability you're going after. Also, what on earth is an SP-1 bolt? Out of the hundreds of ARs and M16/M4s I've handled I've never seen such a thing.[/QUOTE] most good ARs do since the heavier weight often improves cycling. lightning links are unreliable because they get beat to shit quickly, but they don't tend to cause out of battery fire as far as I've seen. the colt SP-1 was an early civilian M16, and the SP-1 is the bolt out of that variation. Lightning links were designed to work with the Colt SP-1 bolt. [editline]10th August 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=UncleJimmema;45654943]I sell base model ARs for between $500-$6000. The price of AKs have gone up, with your once cheap N-PAP going for almost $600. Also, making an AK full auto is not that difficult with some basic machining skills.[/QUOTE] I've never seen a new $500 AR15 and I'm not sure I'd trust one. The cheapest I know of is that S&W M&P sport which is a wobbly mess that's way overgassed and rattles if you shake it

[QUOTE=Falubii;45654629]That's about the same as putting up a pic of Adam Lanza and saying "This is the face of the Gun Owner."[/QUOTE] How you make a correlation between a lunatic who stole his parents weapons and went on a rampage, with a corrupt as fuck politician trying to ban certain types of guns while aiding gun runners bringing in true automatic weapons PLUS missiles from another country is by far the dumbest fucking thing I've read in a minute. [url]http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/08/us/california-senator-indicted/[/url]

[QUOTE=Leon;45651793]it will chamber its just that it will probably explode if you fire it[/QUOTE] Always funny when airsofters start talking about real guns. It can either slam fire or get the cartridge jammed.

[QUOTE=Lijitsu;45653005]Yeah true, but that's mostly with plates. For the most part a civilian in body armor is likely wearing just the vest. Which is a shit load better than nothing, but it still won't stop anything above a .22 from at the very least stunning you and knocking you on your ass.[/QUOTE] This is overwhelming incorrect. IIIA Body armor, which is soft body armor (does not use plates) and can be purchased for under $1000, is capable of stopping virtually all handgun rounds, including .44 Magnum, and it is capable of stopping 12ga 00 Buckshot. IIIA can even withstand 9mm sub-machine gun fire.

Body armor is legal in Denmark. Live like 500m from a store that sells it. Could imagine it's only gangs that buy it, but making armor illegal just sounds ridiculus.

[QUOTE=Oscar Lima Echo;45659993]Always funny when airsofters start talking about real guns. It can either slam fire or get the cartridge jammed.[/QUOTE] No, the pressure of 5.56 is much greater than .223 loads. Having something go pop is a possible threat. Generally speaking, the gun will withstand the pressure just fine, but a low quality rifle does run a risk of serious failure. Though, as you said, the damn thing is gonna fail to extract so much that putting enough rounds through it to actually make it go boom would be pretty tedious.

Heh I just ordered a plate carrier and some Class IVs.

[QUOTE=Mr. Foster;45660091]This is overwhelming incorrect. IIIA Body armor, which is soft body armor (does not use plates) and can be purchased for under $1000, is capable of stopping virtually all handgun rounds, including .44 Magnum, and it is capable of stopping 12ga 00 Buckshot. IIIA can even withstand 9mm sub-machine gun fire.[/QUOTE] Did you not read the last part of it? I'm very aware of even lower end kevlar vests typically stopping most handgun rounds from penetrating. I specifically mentioned it not keeping anything above a .22 from at least [b]stunning you and knocking you on your ass[/b]. At worst - well, worst would actually be penetration - it'll knock you out and/or break some ribs. Unless IIIA has some kind of magical kinetic invulnerability, the energy is still going to slam into you.