[QUOTE=RikohZX;50729526]
Although the fact that his first thought at nearly being run over by what he thought were potential criminals is to pull out his fucking gun and start shooting in the middle of the street was probably not an A+ decision either.[/QUOTE]
he was already pointing his gun at them. they thought he was trying to rob/murder them so they floored it, as was their right
assuming his story is even accurate.
when they interviewed the victims they never mentioned anything like that, instead saying that they heard gunshots and drove off
I can find fault in both party's actions but I don't think it qualifies as self-defense when you run outside in your nightgown and wave a handgun at people telling them not to move. Yeah, some random car being outside at 1:30 AM probably is extremely suspicious, but I wager some dude with a gun is [I]highly alarming[/I] at that hour in [U]any[/U] context. I know I'd plow into that motherfucker with my car, I wouldn't know what that loon is doing.
[editline]17th July 2016[/editline]
Assuming they did actually do that, but I have my doubts.
If you think someone's robbed your house and is sitting outside, you get the plate number and you call the cops. You don't run out with a gun and escalate the situation to the point of violence. First of all you don't have any evidence, and secondly if they actually were robbers, you're putting your life in danger for no reason. It's not your job to apprehend people; leave that to the police.
This guy was completely at fault here.
Oh, I live in Palm Coast and every time a friend asks me why I haven't gotten into Pokemon Go yet, I tell them I don't want to play and risk getting shot for trespassing.
Then don't trespass
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50729715]Then don't trespass[/QUOTE]
Clearly that's not enough, as this news story has demonstrated.
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50729715]Then don't trespass[/QUOTE]
What if you don't know you're trespassing?
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;50729724]Clearly that's not enough, as this news story has demonstrated.[/QUOTE]
only they weren't trespassing, the man is clearly in the wrong here
[QUOTE=Fire Kracker;50729733]only they weren't trespassing, the man is clearly in the wrong here[/QUOTE]
That's my point. It isn't enough to not trespass, because apparently people shoot at you even if you're not trespassing.
snip *there is clearly a misunderstanding here
I can't believe that posters here think "Oh a car parked outside at night, better go investigate with a gun" is a totally logical and sensible choice. I think that's awfully stereotypical American behavior.
[QUOTE=Dmaster;50729677]Oh, I live in Palm Coast and every time a friend asks me why I haven't gotten into Pokemon Go yet, I tell them I don't want to play and risk getting shot for trespassing.[/QUOTE]
that's dumb. all the "pokemon go caused x" news is rubbish anyway
if pokemon go wasn't a thing then "man hit by car while texting" or "man shoots at kids who parked near his house" wouldn't sell papers
[QUOTE=Michael haxz;50727812]I honestly thought that he just out of the blue shot at them. I can understand why now if it appeared that the car tried to run him over.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand why he pointed his gun at them, threatening their lives and didn't expect them to attempt to flee.
But I guess it's all about perspective then isn't it.
It's a shame that people jump to conclusions so quickly, always assuming the worst of people. 1:30 in the morning and didn't assume they were playing man hunt or anything, just automatically assumed they were breaking the law. And then instead of calling the police and reporting the plates he decides to take the law into his own hands and threaten them.
[QUOTE=spazthemax;50729775]I can't believe that posters here think "Oh a car parked outside at night, better go investigate with a gun" is a totally logical and sensible choice. I think that's awfully stereotypical American behavior.[/QUOTE]
Generally, an unknown vehicle outside at 1:30AM isn't good news.
It very rarely happens here. The last two times it happened on my property, it was a teenager that had thrown drugs onto my lawn after crashing their vehicle. They came back several nights, in groups, scouring the edge of my yard for their drugs.
I called the PD, they never came back.
It's either investigate with a gun, or call the PD and hope it's not brushed away.
people coming back every night to your house after throwing drugs on the lawn isn't comparable to a couple of kids on the road for a moment
Even if they had robbed him this isn't justified. He shot blindly down a street at a car driving away from him. Its a horrible idea to blindly fire your gun in any context, but blindly firing it down a residential street is asking for a bystander to get shot
[QUOTE=Kyle902;50730158]Even if they had robbed him this isn't justified. He shot blindly down a street at a car driving away from him. Its a horrible idea to blindly fire your gun in any context, but blindly firing it down a residential street is asking for a bystander to get shot[/QUOTE]
Your reading into it wrong, he was blocking the car, side stepped it and shot at the wheels as it moved. That's certainly far from 'blindingly firing' and endangering stray people, that's sensational talk.
Except he's the only one saying that, no witnesses and the victims didn't mention seeing anyone, rather hearing the shots before taking off. Also ahooting at a speeding car after leaping out of the way in the middle of a neighborhood isn't exactly safe firing
It's actually illegal to do what that guy did, too. Even if the kid was actually caught by the man running down the street with his fucking T.V, you can't shoot someone running away in a situation like that.
The teenagers had absolutely no idea why this guy was holding them at gunpoint, and knew they hadn't done anything wrong. They were simply trying to escape what they thought to be a potentially life threatening situation.
Even if they had hit the guy with their car, they would be cleared of any charges, if there were charges filed in the first place, while the man with the gun would have been charged with murder, attempted murder, manslaughter, or assault with a firearm, depending on the outcome, regardless of if the teens came at him with their car.
Seriously, if that guy killed one of those kids, he'd be slapped with a murder charge. They were just sitting by the curb in their car. If he got close enough to hear them talking, he could have asked them what they were doing.
You can't pull a fucking gun on someone for sitting in front of your house, no matter what time of night it is.
He'll probably be charged for firing at them, too.
[editline]18th July 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=FezianEmperor;50727933]I don't know, I'd probably try to not get into a situation like that in the first place. Like how these kids ended up doing.[/QUOTE]
If parking your car in front of someone's house is going to get you in a situation like this, you'd be better off not leaving your house.
This guy was trigger happy. They wouldn't have been put in this situation if he wasn't. How he acted wasn't a typical and appropriate response.
[QUOTE=BLOB Fish Dude;50727817]It's a crime to be out past 1:30 a.m.? What the fuck is wrong with you? Going out past your bedtime and you deserved to be shot? What kind of logic is that? I could understand if they were physically on his property but they were just in their car.[/QUOTE]
You're overreacting way more than I overreact. Seek therapy.
The Shoot first, think later mentality that's been going on recently needs to stop
[QUOTE=FezianEmperor;50727839]I believe common sense tells you that creeping around peoples' living space during late night is basically a no go. Especially if you live in a country where people are armed with guns and can shoot you for trespassing on their property.
Basically even I could come to the conclusion that I'd rather spend my late AMs farming pokemons in city parks, city space etc.[/QUOTE]
To be honest, the article never once mentions if they were on his property or not. If they weren't, then fuck him. Call the police that there's weird strangers in the neighbourhood at 0130. Don't go confront them with a gun. And even if they were parked in his driveway, shooting at them once they started backing away is a bloody clear no go.
[quote]
Some states give you the right to protect your property like that, so yeah, and given the scenario, seeing a car parked in front of the house, hearing "did you get anything", I'd say the guy wasn't crazy to think that his house had/was being robbed.
[/quote]
No they do not. What instead is present is the following.
a) preventing a crime in progress - the crime is just happening
b) citizen's arrest - you just directly witnessed a crime being committed and you detain the perpetrator. - this is incredibly problematic and most places do not allow this as a use of force
c) castle doctrine - direct attack on your property
None of these things apply. No crime was in progress. There was no attack on any rights in progress. The man was not sure if a crime had happened. Lastly he fired once the danger had passed.
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;50728603]You don't know that
You can't read people's minds and know why they're there[/QUOTE]
If you see someone being fishy and go out to confront them, without them doing anything illegal, you've just become the aggressor. In particular if you go out and challenge them with a weapon. Remember the reaction and use of force should generally be appropriate to the situation.
Calling the cops and telling them about a bunch of fishy guys, if they could check them out - completely standard
Calmly walking up to them, asking what they're doing here at 0130, that they're waking people up - completely appropriate
Walking up to them with a shotgun cleanly visible - nope, you've just crossed the line.
[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50728470]If I have a chance of escaping a guy who for all I know could be a carjacker/thief, sorry but I'm taking that route.[/QUOTE]
Well hitting people with your car at such short distances won't do any damage, and if they have a gun pulled on you they'll damn well react faster than your car can accelerate. If they're a carjacker, they definitely won't be aiming for the tires of the car they're trying to take, assuming a carjacker would even take a car at gunpoint instead of hot wiring it or robbing someone of their keys while they're walking to or from their car.
My point was mostly that its always been taught that you shouldn't aggravate someone who is pointing a gun at you, yet people seem to think the opposite should be true for this sort of situation, which, unsurprisingly, lead to shots being fired. Then again, nobody is ever 100% right when entertaining hypothetical situations.
[QUOTE=3picFail;50733097]Well hitting people with your car at such short distances won't do any damage, and if they have a gun pulled on you they'll damn well react faster than your car can accelerate. If they're a carjacker, they definitely won't be aiming for the tires of the car they're trying to take, assuming a carjacker would even take a car at gunpoint instead of hot wiring it or robbing someone of their keys while they're walking to or from their car.
My point was mostly that its always been taught that you shouldn't aggravate someone who is pointing a gun at you, yet people seem to think the opposite should be true for this sort of situation, which, unsurprisingly, lead to shots being fired. Then again, nobody is ever 100% right when entertaining hypothetical situations.[/QUOTE]
The point of the argument is that the gun should have never been drawn in the first place.
Regardless of that, it's very easy to say what we would have done in the situation after the fact because we aren't in a life-or-death situation.. Put yourself in the kids' place. Dark night, sitting in your car, a shadowy figure comes out of nowhere and points a gun at you. I think the obvious reaction from most people would be to get the fuck out of there as quickly as possible. I know I'd just duck and floor it.
[QUOTE=3picFail;50733097]Well hitting people with your car at such short distances won't do any damage, and if they have a gun pulled on you they'll damn well react faster than your car can accelerate. If they're a carjacker, they definitely won't be aiming for the tires of the car they're trying to take, assuming a carjacker would even take a car at gunpoint instead of hot wiring it or robbing someone of their keys while they're walking to or from their car.
My point was mostly that its always been taught that you shouldn't aggravate someone who is pointing a gun at you, yet people seem to think the opposite should be true for this sort of situation, which, unsurprisingly, lead to shots being fired. Then again, nobody is ever 100% right when entertaining hypothetical situations.[/QUOTE]
I would take the route that would let me escape, but if you'd stay and listen to him, well, you're entitled to your opinion.
Just a side note, it's not proven that they were trying to run him down. The teens said they just drove off, and the man said the car tried to run him down.
I'd probably go with the teen's story for now, considering that the guy who shot at them could've easily just assumed they were trying to run him down/made up a story to try and victimize himself.
[QUOTE=Pascall;50727859]Of course they do. It's just wiser to be in more public areas later at night where there's the capacity for more people to be around. Roaming through a neighborhood in their car that they don't live in is probably not the best place they could've been.
I'm definitely not blaming them for being shot at but staying in better lit public areas instead of hovering near private residences just makes more sense. That and there's better/more Pokemon available in public areas anyway.[/QUOTE]
Who's to say they don't live one or two streets over though? My wife and I sometimes go out to grab a rare pokemon in the neighborhood. If we open the app and a snorlax is two streets over then we hop in our car and go get it. Although we wouldn't be surprised if a cop showed up since it looks pretty sketch.
I think it just comes down to the fact that Pokemon Go is causing people to act in ways people aren't used to.
Wait, why did they accelerate the car towards the guy if he gently asked them to stop?
[QUOTE=Pascall;50727796]Why are they out at 1:30AM creeping around..
Common sense, man. I know they're teenagers, but they're still capable of making smart choices.[/QUOTE]
Im 23 and i still sometime creep around at 5 am
[QUOTE=Pascall;50727834]holy shit lmao I never said it was their fault! It's not a crime to be out at 1:30 but it's definitely not something that most people expect to see outside of their house. I never said the man shooting was in the right. maybe relax a bit.[/QUOTE]
I'd say he is in the right for shooting, they tried to run him over!
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