Video of kid accidentally shooting self will be shown at trial. - Polidicks

[quote]I have so far not commented on the Constituional Right to Arms, I have meerly made comment that the gun culture in the United States was bad.[/quote] I don't really see how one can be separated from the other. (realistically) [quote]I don't believe an 8 year old has any reason to have their hands on an Uzi, let alone any other gun. If you feel there is a need to teach an 8 year old - it must stem from the fact that other people around them have guns. [/quote] At 8, I agree that no kid needs to be using an UZI. But there is nothing wrong with teaching a kid to hunt with a pellet gun at 8. Teaching children how to properly handle dangerous things that they are likely to handle later in life will help them a great deal. You could even make the argument that, if you were doing it right, you could teach kids to respect life and where food they buy at the grocery store comes from. Even if that hunting is done with a simple fishing pole, it can be an important lesson. In many respects it is similar to alcohol. Alcohol is potentially an extremely dangerous substance, but exposing your kids to it in a controlled environment before they are likely to be exposed to it from an outside source can be beneficial in determining how they approach it in the future. Or we could get onto the whole topic of safe sex. Giving your kid condoms, porn, and a talk about sex and the responsibilities and mechanics it entails isn't a free pass for them to go be an idiot, it's about taking the mystery away and keeping them from doing something stupid by exposing them to it in a controlled environment. Kids are going to do stupid shit. It's better that they are stupid where you can watch them and guide them. [quote]But then don't you have to live in fear that the person next to you may be carrying a weapon?[/QUOTE] Are you? A brick to the head is plenty capable of rendering you helpless. As is a knife and a whole host of other weapons. All they need is surprise. It boils down to the exact same thing as just about anywhere else: Avoid bad areas of town and you are likely to be safe. Police here focus patrols on bad parts of town just like everywhere else. Poverty and lack of education, as always, are the real culprits behind crime. The idea that anyone in the United States can do anything or be anyone is a heavily flawed concept reinforced with terrible schools based around archaic concepts and funded like shit. The "American Dream" is the problem.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27250019] If people were willing to accept that firing downrange is pointless and even potentially dangerous, then you'd have the removal of some deadly weapons. [/QUOTE] Its not pointless, its entertaining. Its a hobby. That's like saying we should stop fencing or competing archery because they are both hobbies that involve the use of a potentially dangerous weapon. Edit: Better stop boxing, we cant have people using those deadly appendages attached to the ends of thier arms in a weaponlike fashion!

If you ask me, shooting yourself is pretty silly.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27250019]Then it's a problem with the culture. Guns are designed to kill. Owning a gun so you can fire it at a range proves the problem in the culture. It makes no sense that a [i]weapon[/i] is only used to fire downrange at a target. If people were willing to accept that firing downrange is pointless and even potentially dangerous, then you'd have the removal of some deadly weapons[/QUOTE] i'm as much of a proponent of gun control as anyone, but there's a certain primal satisfaction to shooting shit

This kid was 8 years old he shouldn't even be handling a gun and second the people and the gun show who gave him the gun are the ones who are wrong. Why would you give an 8 year old a gun.

[QUOTE=Timebomb757;27250134]Its not pointless, its entertaining. Its a hobby. That's like saying we should stop fencing or competing archery because they are both hobbies that involve the use of a potentially dangerous weapon. Edit: Better stop boxing, we cant have people using those deadly appendages attached to the ends of thier arms in a weaponlike fashion![/QUOTE] The difference between those examples and shooting at a range is that the weapons used in those instances require users to be trained, whereas someone shooting someone with the same weapon you use the at the range requires a lot less training. [editline]7th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Prismatex;27250163]i'm as much of a proponent of gun control as anyone, but there's a certain primal satisfaction to shooting shit[/QUOTE] Haha, even I've done it myself, but I feel that it's something that may be worth giving up for the greater benefit of the people. The less weapons, the better.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27250019]Then it's a problem with the culture. Guns are designed to kill. Owning a gun so you can fire it at a range proves the problem in the culture. It makes no sense that a [i]weapon[/i] is only used to fire downrange at a target. If people were willing to accept that firing downrange is pointless and even potentially dangerous, then you'd have the removal of some deadly weapons. [/QUOTE] So then I guess Archery and Javelin Throw also makes no sense, and if you want to get into the gritty then neither does any form of Swordplay. Hell, even some forms of Martial Arts wouldn't make sense then. Based on what you're saying none of these examples have any point and should all be banned. [QUOTE=DogGunn;27250019]How are they going to go down in seconds if dozens of people around you don't have a gun?[/QUOTE] I said I would be surprised if they didn't. A lot of people around here legally carry concealed guns, and a lot more illegally carry concealed guns. I would much rather be in a crowd of people with guns than be in a crowd of people without guns except for that guy with nothing to lose waiting to bring people with him.

[QUOTE=StupidUsername67;27250224]So then I guess Archery and Javelin Throw also makes no sense, and if you want to get into the gritty then neither does any form of Swordplay. Hell, even some forms of Martial Arts wouldn't make sense then. Based on what you're saying none of these examples have any point and should all be banned.[/QUOTE] Have you heard of an 8 year old killing someone or themselves with martial arts or fencing? I'm doubtful. But I'm sure you've heard of cases where an 8 year old has used guns to kill or injure others, or even themselves.

[QUOTE=Timebomb757;27250134] That's like saying we should stop fencing or competing archery because they are both hobbies that involve the use of a potentially dangerous weapon. Edit: Better stop boxing, we cant have people using those deadly appendages attached to the ends of thier arms in a weaponlike fashion![/QUOTE] Unrelated to the conversation, but a fun fact all the same: Archery competitions began during the days where standing armies were rare and generally were comprised heavily of peasants. Training a peasant to use a spear was a fast and relatively simple process, but training archers was a much more involved ordeal. So archery competitions were funded by the various levels of feudal governments in order to promote greater numbers of pre-trained archers in the civilian ranks. Also a fun fact: If you are a professional boxer and you attack someone with your fists, you can indeed be charged with assault with a deadly weapon. They can, and often are, considered deadly weapons in the US justice system.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27235616]Or remove guns in most instances, and the problem is solved. Guns are normally only needed for protection from guns.[/QUOTE] Ugh.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27250199]The difference between those examples and shooting at a range is that the weapons used in those instances require users to be trained, whereas someone shooting someone with the same weapon you use the at the range requires a lot less training. [editline]7th January 2011[/editline] Haha, even I've done it myself, but I feel that it's something that may be worth giving up for the greater benefit of the people. The less weapons, the better.[/QUOTE] Using a gun properly requires a lot of instruction and training, even moreso depending on what kind of gun it is. How do you propose to get rid of these weapons? Do you outlaw them? Unfortunately that's unconstitutional, and even then it just doesn't make 250 million guns go away. I'm curious.

Getting rid of guns won't make violence and negligence magically disappear, people search too desperately for something to blame, when in truth the only one to blame is ourselves. The gun does nothing, it is neither an enabling factor nor a direct cause. Our own stupidity is what creates situations such as this. Maybe in fairy land where many of you people seem to live you can place the blame directly on a tool, but here in the real world, it's not that easy.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;27249519]Civilians should be allowed tanks. Jus' saying yo[/QUOTE] "DAAAADDY! I think I killed our entire neighborhood!"

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyAlt;27250388]Using a gun properly requires a lot of instruction and training, even moreso depending on what kind of gun it is.[/QUOTE] I never said it didn't. I just said it required a lot less training to be deadly than martial arts or fencing. [QUOTE=SgtCr4zyAlt;27250388]How do you propose to get rid of these weapons? Do you outlaw them? Unfortunately that's unconstitutional, and even then it just doesn't make 250 million guns go away. I'm curious.[/QUOTE] Nothing I can think of would work in America. Gun culture is too firmly cemented in the America psyche.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27250294]Have you heard of an 8 year old killing someone or themselves with martial arts or fencing? I'm doubtful. But I'm sure you've heard of cases where an 8 year old has used guns to kill or injure others, or even themselves.[/QUOTE] Yes, actually, I have. Not an eight year old specifically, but I've read many stories of people being killed or injured in those sports. I even have a few first hand experiences. An example being in my middle school gym class. We had Archery in 7th grade and while my teacher was collecting an arrow somebody fired into a window (was pretty funny) a kid accidentally released an arrow and it hit him in the cheek (not as funny) and went all the way through. A bit higher and he probably would have died. Archery, Martial Arts, Swordplay, etc are incredibly dangerous and sometimes lethal, just like target shooting, and at the range I go to there has never been an accidental death or injury.

[QUOTE=mugofdoom;27250394]Getting rid of guns won't make violence and negligence magically disappear, people search too desperately for something to blame, when in truth the only one to blame is ourselves. The gun does nothing, it is neither an enabling factor nor a direct cause. Our own stupidity is what creates situations such as this.[/QUOTE] Of course it's the person who is to blame - but it's the fact that guns are easier avaiable than they should which causes much of the problem. The United States has one of the highest gun related death rates. [QUOTE=mugofdoom;27250394]Maybe in fairy land where many of you people seem to live you can place the blame directly on a tool, but here in the real world, it's not that easy.[/QUOTE] Ugh.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27250494]Of course it's the person who is to blame - but it's the fact that guns are easier avaiable than they should which causes much of the problem. The United States has one of the highest gun related death rates. Ugh.[/QUOTE] Then why is violent crime at an all time low?

[QUOTE=StupidUsername67;27250469]Yes, actually, I have. Not an eight year old specifically, but I've read many stories of people being killed or injured in those sports.[/QUOTE] I'm not really talking about sports, but nevertheless, yes there are occurances. [QUOTE=StupidUsername67;27250469]I even have a few first hand experiences. An example being in my middle school gym class. We had Archery in 7th grade and while my teacher was collecting an arrow somebody fired into a window (was pretty funny) a kid accidentally released an arrow and it hit him in the cheek (not as funny) and went all the way through. A bit higher and he probably would have died.[/quote] If he was unlucky enough that it was higher, it would've been a death atributed to something a lot more rarer than a death attributed by a gun. I can find cases where guns have done bad, just as you can find many cases where guns have done good, but I am talking overall. [QUOTE=StupidUsername67;27250469]Archery, Martial Arts, Swordplay, etc are incredibly dangerous and sometimes lethal, just like target shooting, and at the range I go to there has never been an accidental death or injury.[/QUOTE] I'm not talking about shooting at the range, I'm talking about the weaposn used at the range being deadly. [editline]7th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=mugofdoom;27250527]Then why is crime at an all time low?[/QUOTE] There are many reasons for that, but guns are unrelated. You should be looking at something like homicides by guns, which is still following the same cyclical nature.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27250547] I'm not talking about shooting at the range, I'm talking about the weaposn used at the range being deadly.[/QUOTE] Again, bows at an archery range are deadly weapons, as are javelins. Anything going to any range is a weapon, that's why it's a range. It's there to shoot at shit that isn't people. Bringing anything that isn't a weapon to a range would just be silly. Nobody is going to open a range specifically for the use of rubber bands, which is the only thing I can think of that can be fired while not being potentially dangerous. [editline]6th January 2011[/editline] Actually, on second thought, I could see rubber bands being dangerous. It would really suck to get hit in the eye with one.

[QUOTE=StupidUsername67;27250617]Again, bows at an archery range are deadly weapons, as are javelins. Anything going to any range is a weapon, that's why it's a range. It's there to shoot at shit that isn't people. Bringing anything that isn't a weapon to a range would just be silly.[/QUOTE] Then comes the argument of guns being easier to transport and carry on your person than bow and arrow. Especially when looking at handguns.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27249488]Why does he even need to fire a gun?[/QUOTE] There's absolutely no legit reason that he shouldn't be able to. He obviously wasn't instructed in the proper handling of automatic weapons. At his age he should still be in the .22 stage anyways. [editline]6th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=NoDachi;27249519]Civilians should be allowed tanks. Jus' saying yo[/QUOTE] They damn well should be, and luckily are.

[QUOTE=mastermaul;27250718]There's absolutely no legit reason that he shouldn't be able to.[/QUOTE] He's young, and handling a gun is a great responsibity. 8 is so young, he doesn't even have any legal responsibility if he does something wrong.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27250882]He's young, and handling a gun is a great responsibity. 8 is so young, he doesn't even have any legal responsibility if he does something wrong.[/QUOTE] An eight year old admittedly is not old enough to fire a Mini Uzi, especially when the instructor is just standing there like a jackass. But this is the first time this has ever happened, our gun laws regarding letting eight year olds fire automatics are obviously a great success if only one child has died from it (again, due to negligence) from the many that haven't. When I was at the Knob Creek Machine Gun shoot in Kentucky there was a kid (maybe 9 or 10) firing a full automatic M16 right next to me, and we're both still alive, due to competent instructors.

I'm ready for the video.

Pisses me off knowing that the owner of the weapon is being brought to trial. Where were the parents? They are the ones that rented the gun for the kid!

It was more the instructors fault for not helping the kid, as they are supposed to do. If he had done his job as he was supposed to, the kid would be alive.

both are at fault I don't see why anyone would let an eight year old near an automatic uzi

[QUOTE=DogGunn;27248760]Completely. Yes.[/quote] Clearly [quote]I have lived in the US for extended periods of times. I have also lived in Europe for a few months and live in Australia fulltime now. Nothing compares to the terribleness of the gun culture in America. The fact that you can walk into a K-Mart in the US, and buy a gun and ammunition (even if it's a hunting rifle) is just plain terrible.[/quote] Except K-Mart doesn't sell firearms, and has a strict policy of not allowing them in their stores, even by people who have a permit to carry a weapon anywhere else. [quote]Nope. But many businesses and households may feel the need to have a gun due to the fact that everyone around them may have a gun, legally.[/quote] Usually liberals who fear the "rednecks" that live around them. Guns are 5x more likely to be used in defense of a person than they are to commit a crime. States with more lenient gun laws have shown to have lower violent crime rates. [quote]I doubt this. Really doubt this. Most people own a gun so they can just go to the range? If I'm wrong, and people only buy guns so they can go to the range, it shows the negative nature of gun culture.[/quote] I own a gun to target shoot. So do several of my friends who are retired military. We have lots of fun at the range. People have hobbies. For some it is tuning up cars, some choose to learn sports, and others like to learn to shoot. [URL=http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b100/89Sunbird/Shooting/?action=view&current=100_5835.mp4][IMG]http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b100/89Sunbird/Shooting/th_100_5835.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [quote]Because it's a larger problem than the major cities can handle.[/QUOTE] Wait. So now you say that people need a gun to protect themselves in the dangerous cities that have crime under control? That is like a triple negative statement. [editline]6th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=GunFox;27248923]Wow, Mp-5's aren't cheap. The armaments of these children seem disproportionate to the standard equipment given to child soldiers. Normally you are fucked if you are using child soldiers both in terms of recruitment and funding/armaments. I guess they could be knockoffs, but again, who sports that level of manufacturing capability and still employs child soldiers? I guess they could just be in training. Would still be odd though. EDIT: Errr uhhhh oh no! Child soldiers![/QUOTE] Pakistan Ordinance Factory (POF) is a primary maker of firearms on licensed HK production lines. Pakistan is also home to a variety of militant groups that have no qualms about employing child conscripts.

[QUOTE=Ridge;27251266]Except K-Mart doesn't sell firearms, and has a strict policy of not allowing them in their stores, even by people who have a permit to carry a weapon anywhere else.[/QUOTE] [citation needed]

[QUOTE=mugofdoom;27250977]An eight year old admittedly is not old enough to fire a Mini Uzi, especially when the instructor is just standing there like a jackass.[/QUOTE] Wait it was a mini uzi? I expected a full sized one stock and all. That may be a bit too much for him then, with all the recoil going into nothing.